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Next: what's causing my goldfish to die?
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:16 pm
Post subject: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish)
Archived from groups: rec>aquaria>freshwater>goldfish (more info?)
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Hello,
I am a tropical fish keeper of many years' standing, and have a pretty
good understanding of fish care.
Some time ago I decided to get some goldfish. I used a 48"x12"x15" tank,
running a Fluval 2 filter, with regular water changes. Our water is soft
and neutral.
Well, despite introducing the fish slowly and monitoring ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate (which all went as expected), the fish only lived
for a couple of months before dying. No obvious diseases, just went all
floppy and died.
We had about eight 2-3" fish, fairly ordinary comets. These were
introduced slowly, not all at once, so I don't think it was the cycling
that did it. Anyway, I monitored levels.
I'm now thinking about trying again, but I can't help wondering where I
went wrong. I know people who get goldfish at a fair, thrown them in a
small bowl, over feed them, rarely change the water (and do 100% changes
when they do) and the fish live for ages. I took great care to give them
a good home and they died. The fish were good quality, from a reputable
shop where I buy my tropicals.
Any tips ? I know this is all very vague, but I can see what I did
wrong. I assume that keeping cold water fish is similar to keeping
tropical fish.
I'm thinking of a 24" cube for a tank. Got a nice spot for one of those.
How many fish would be comfortable in this ?
TIA
--
Alan Silver |
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External
Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Alan Silver"
<alan-silver DeleteThis @furry-ferret.prestwich-smile-gemach.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:V3XyS2ETRFA$Ew1Z@nospamthankyou.spam...
> Hello,
>
> I am a tropical fish keeper of many years' standing, and have a pretty
> good understanding of fish care.
>
> Some time ago I decided to get some goldfish. I used a 48"x12"x15" tank,
> running a Fluval 2 filter, with regular water changes. Our water is soft
> and neutral.
>
> Well, despite introducing the fish slowly and monitoring ammonia,
> nitrite and nitrate (which all went as expected), the fish only lived
> for a couple of months before dying. No obvious diseases, just went all
> floppy and died.
>
> We had about eight 2-3" fish, fairly ordinary comets. These were
> introduced slowly, not all at once, so I don't think it was the cycling
> that did it. Anyway, I monitored levels.
>
> I'm now thinking about trying again, but I can't help wondering where I
> went wrong. I know people who get goldfish at a fair, thrown them in a
> small bowl, over feed them, rarely change the water (and do 100% changes
> when they do) and the fish live for ages. I took great care to give them
> a good home and they died. The fish were good quality, from a reputable
> shop where I buy my tropicals.
>
> Any tips ? I know this is all very vague, but I can see what I did
> wrong. I assume that keeping cold water fish is similar to keeping
> tropical fish.
>
> I'm thinking of a 24" cube for a tank. Got a nice spot for one of those.
> How many fish would be comfortable in this ?
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Alan Silver
The rule of thumb for new keepers of goldfish is one small-medium size fish
per 10 gallons, with about 25% water change per week. This may seem
ridiculous to you as someone with experience with trops, but the digestive
system of goldfish is such that they produce massive quantities of waste.
I too have heard and read the anecdotal stories of the carnival fish that
live for years in filthy water, but since I've been reading this newsgroup
I've read far more stories of fish dying from poor water quality.
I realize you said your tests went as expected, but it sounds to me as if
you were overstocked. Also new fish are likely to carry disease and should
be quarantined for a while before introducing them into an existing tank. |
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <Sy1Ma.6945$xv.4733@fe3.columbus.rr.com>, Chloe
<justsayno.TakeThisOut@spam.com> writes
>The rule of thumb for new keepers of goldfish is one small-medium size
>fish per 10 gallons, with about 25% water change per week. This may
>seem ridiculous to you as someone with experience with trops, but the
>digestive system of goldfish is such that they produce massive
>quantities of waste.
OK, so my tank was probably overstocked. It was about 35 US gallons,
which according to your rule should have allowed about three and a half
fish (!!). I had eight small to medium, which would be too many.
Only thing is, if that was the case, I would have expected to see a high
nitrate level in the tank. After the initial peaks it was at an
acceptable level (1-15mg/l).
Also, I was pretty careful with water changes. I would have thought that
this would have helped. I know it doesn't excuse overstocking, but I was
quite good about keeping the tank clean.
>I too have heard and read the anecdotal stories of the carnival fish
>that live for years in filthy water, but since I've been reading this
>newsgroup I've read far more stories of fish dying from poor water
>quality.
Me too. I was just venting frustration at the fact that they all died
when I actually tried to do it right !!
>I realize you said your tests went as expected, but it sounds to me as
>if you were overstocked. Also new fish are likely to carry disease and
>should be quarantined for a while before introducing them into an
>existing tank.
Also a good point. Having said that, I didn't see any signs of disease.
I don't know if goldfish diseases are much different from tropical ones,
but going by what I know from the trops, I didn't see any disease.
Anyway, thanx for the info. Worth contemplating for the future.
--
Alan Silver >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Alan Silver"
<alan-silver.DeleteThis@furry-ferret.prestwich-smile-gemach.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:CdpX41JoWcA$EwEx@nospamthankyou.spam...
> In article <3f01b21d.3232411.DeleteThis@news-server.wi.rr.com>,
> dr-solo.DeleteThis@wi.rr.xx.com writes
> >OK.. you have some less than ideal conditions for goldies.
>
> Which ones in particular ? If it's something I can fix easily, then I
> would like to know.
>
> Thanx for the info.
>
> --
> Alan Silver
In addition to what sounded like insufficient water quantity and
insufficient water changes, flake food is less than ideal, too--it's not
very nutritious and leads to a lot of waste, which leads to even more fouled
water. Feed them a good quality floating or sinking pellet (Hikari is
readily available), supplemented by some other stuff like tubifex worms,
dried shrimp, and spirulina flakes. >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Alan Silver"
<alan-silver DeleteThis @furry-ferret.prestwich-smile-gemach.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:OqjkVzBDbZA$Ew2N@nospamthankyou.spam...
> In article <Sy1Ma.6945$xv.4733@fe3.columbus.rr.com>, Chloe
> <justsayno DeleteThis @spam.com> writes
> >I realize you said your tests went as expected, but it sounds to me as
> >if you were overstocked. Also new fish are likely to carry disease and
> >should be quarantined for a while before introducing them into an
> >existing tank.
>
> Also a good point. Having said that, I didn't see any signs of disease.
> I don't know if goldfish diseases are much different from tropical ones,
> but going by what I know from the trops, I didn't see any disease.
>
> Anyway, thanx for the info. Worth contemplating for the future.
>
> --
> Alan Silver
You're welcome. Diagnosis by Usenet isn't very dependable of course, but a
couple years of reading has convinced me that insufficient clean water is
the No. 1 problem by far with goldfish. I way prefer having three healthy,
long-lived ones in a 30 gallon tank (mine were discount store fish) than
twice as many sick or dying ones. >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:37 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <CFmMa.7686$xv.7383@fe3.columbus.rr.com>, Chloe
<justsayno.RemoveThis@spam.com> writes
>You're welcome. Diagnosis by Usenet isn't very dependable of course,
>but a couple years of reading has convinced me that insufficient clean
>water is the No. 1 problem by far with goldfish. I way prefer having
>three healthy, long-lived ones in a 30 gallon tank (mine were discount
>store fish) than twice as many sick or dying ones.
Agreed 100% - I thought I was doing the right thing ;-(
Anyway, if I do this again, I'll certainly be better informed. Water
changes shouldn't be a problem (10% twice a week sound OK ?) and I can
easily feed them other things as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
Thanx for the reply
--
Alan Silver >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Why make things hard, do a 20% change once a week.
Alan Silver wrote:
> Agreed 100% - I thought I was doing the right thing ;-(
>
> Anyway, if I do this again, I'll certainly be better informed. Water
> changes shouldn't be a problem (10% twice a week sound OK ?) and I can
> easily feed them other things as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <3F030A4B.3A9BE4EC.TakeThisOut@Freezer.com>, Geezer From The Freezer
<Geezer.TakeThisOut@Freezer.com> writes
>Why make things hard, do a 20% change once a week.
Because when I have the pipes plumbed in, it's no harder to do a water
change than it is to make a cup of tea (I can actually do both at the
same time). Water changes are done sitting on the floor in front of the
tank. It's a matter of ...
1) open tap one and wait a minute or so
2) open tap two and wait about five minutes
3) close tap two, open tap one again and wait about five minutes
4) close tap one and go for tea
All this is done without opening the top of the tank and without getting
my hands wet or trailing pipes or buckets of water around. It's no
effort.
I prefer to give my fish smaller changes in temperature and water
chemistry as it is far better for them. 20% is actually quite a lot to
change in one go.
--
Alan Silver >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Alan Silver"
<alan-silver.DeleteThis@furry-ferret.prestwich-smile-gemach.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:Gzk2jCHc$xA$Ew2y@nospamthankyou.spam...
> In article <3F030A4B.3A9BE4EC.DeleteThis@Freezer.com>, Geezer From The Freezer
> <Geezer.DeleteThis@Freezer.com> writes
> >Why make things hard, do a 20% change once a week.
>
> Because when I have the pipes plumbed in, it's no harder to do a water
> change than it is to make a cup of tea (I can actually do both at the
> same time). Water changes are done sitting on the floor in front of the
> tank. It's a matter of ...
>
> 1) open tap one and wait a minute or so
> 2) open tap two and wait about five minutes
> 3) close tap two, open tap one again and wait about five minutes
> 4) close tap one and go for tea
>
> All this is done without opening the top of the tank and without getting
> my hands wet or trailing pipes or buckets of water around. It's no
> effort.
>
> I prefer to give my fish smaller changes in temperature and water
> chemistry as it is far better for them. 20% is actually quite a lot to
> change in one go.
Sounds wonderful, although I'm wondering how you dechlorinate the water with
that method, or do you not need to? >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2003
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <CjIMa.2921$zE.2158@fe1.columbus.rr.com>, Chloe
<justsayno.RemoveThis@spam.com> writes
>Sounds wonderful, although I'm wondering how you dechlorinate the water
>with that method, or do you not need to?
I put the water conditioner directly in the tank. I must admit that this
bit *does* require opening the tank, but given that small water changes
are not going to cause chlorine problems over a short time period, I
often wait until the next feed to add the conditioner (or I do the water
change when I feed).
Ta ra
--
Alan Silver >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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Since: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with goldfish) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Did you put your goldfish in the tank with tropical fish? If so, that could
be your problem.
Goldfish have diffrent feeding and temperature requirements than tropical
fish. You should never mix goldfish in a tank with tropical fish.
"Alan Silver"
<alan-silver.RemoveThis@furry-ferret.prestwich-smile-gemach.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:V3XyS2ETRFA$Ew1Z@nospamthankyou.spam...
> Hello,
>
> I am a tropical fish keeper of many years' standing, and have a pretty
> good understanding of fish care.
>
> Some time ago I decided to get some goldfish. I used a 48"x12"x15" tank,
> running a Fluval 2 filter, with regular water changes. Our water is soft
> and neutral.
>
> Well, despite introducing the fish slowly and monitoring ammonia,
> nitrite and nitrate (which all went as expected), the fish only lived
> for a couple of months before dying. No obvious diseases, just went all
> floppy and died.
>
> We had about eight 2-3" fish, fairly ordinary comets. These were
> introduced slowly, not all at once, so I don't think it was the cycling
> that did it. Anyway, I monitored levels.
>
> I'm now thinking about trying again, but I can't help wondering where I
> went wrong. I know people who get goldfish at a fair, thrown them in a
> small bowl, over feed them, rarely change the water (and do 100% changes
> when they do) and the fish live for ages. I took great care to give them
> a good home and they died. The fish were good quality, from a reputable
> shop where I buy my tropicals.
>
> Any tips ? I know this is all very vague, but I can see what I did
> wrong. I assume that keeping cold water fish is similar to keeping
> tropical fish.
>
> I'm thinking of a 24" cube for a tank. Got a nice spot for one of those.
> How many fish would be comfortable in this ?
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Alan Silver
> >> Stay informed about: What did I do wrong ? (thinking about tying again with gol.. |
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