wing clipping

<<I think it is important that a house parrot is at least able to fly well
enough to land well. A
startled bird will instinctively try to fly whether it is able or not.>>

That is the best advice .. any bird should have his wings cut by a
professional so that landings will not be harmful to it. Allowing full
flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or escape.
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

Allowing full flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or
escape.
>
>
That advice is foolish. Full flight is possible (and should be) if the birds
environment is safe. If you cant guarantee your birds safety while out of
its cage then you shouldn't keep birds. And I am nothing to do with peta. I
have kept fully flighted birds for over 20 years without any 'accidents'
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

how do you know when your bird's have had there wings clipped properly ?
"Ray" <No.mail DeleteThis @the.com> wrote in message
news:K6Gbh.1271$GF5.311@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>
> Allowing full flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or
> escape.
>>
>>
> That advice is foolish. Full flight is possible (and should be) if the
> birds environment is safe. If you cant guarantee your birds safety while
> out of its cage then you shouldn't keep birds. And I am nothing to do with
> peta. I have kept fully flighted birds for over 20 years without any
> 'accidents'
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

If the bleeding stops before shock takes place ... you know you did a good
job.
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww19eii.htm



"coreyhullfc" <coreyhullfc.DeleteThis@coreyhullfc.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XOidnbtmJcqmJO_YnZ2dnUVZ8sGdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> how do you know when your bird's have had there wings clipped properly ?
> "Ray" <No.mail.DeleteThis@the.com> wrote in message
> news:K6Gbh.1271$GF5.311@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> Allowing full flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or
>> escape.
>>>
>>>
>> That advice is foolish. Full flight is possible (and should be) if the
>> birds environment is safe. If you cant guarantee your birds safety while
>> out of its cage then you shouldn't keep birds. And I am nothing to do
>> with peta. I have kept fully flighted birds for over 20 years without any
>> 'accidents'
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

basanistes wrote:
> "Gutboy" <ug RemoveThis @ly.com> wrote in message
> news:_TLah.113593$9K1.69845@fe01.news.easynews.com...
> > Cutty (CAG 7yrs old) was clipped when I bought him.
> > I had a freind who works with birds give him a cut, but after a while I
> > decided to let them grow out. A couple of times when he crash landed he
> > actually bent a flight feather right at the base under the skin . It stuck
> > out at an odd angle from his body, and he was obviously in a great deal of
> > pain. It was heartbreaking to see him that way.
> >
> > My thought is that it would never have happened if his wings were clipped,
> > so in my case, (small rooms) it is probably more humane to keep them
> > clipped. He can still fly with them clipped, by the way, only the longest
> > flights are clipped in half, by a pro.
>
> My grey was clipped, but never learnt to fly. But he started to pluck one
> wing at age of 2 years, and that wing did not need any clipping. But the
> other wing was not clipped.
> At one bad day, he jumped out of the window, but could not fly because of
> the plucked single wing while the other was not. He died a week after.
>
> My current grey is not clipped and has learned to sit at my shoulder even
> when I go out of the house. However, I would not advise anybody to do so,
> but I personally learnt him to do so.
> In addition, a non-clipped bird must learn to avoid to fly onto the window
> (and would break his neck).
>
> > All you PETA-tending people do animals a disservice by letting feathers
> > grow naturally in an unnatural environment (a human house) which can lead
> > to very painful and serious injury.
>
> As you can see, my experience is just the other way around.
>
> > By the way, at suppertime he says:
> > "Whats for supper? Amburgers and WOOTbeer!"
> >

I would strongly advise that you do not go out with your grey on your
shoulder.
He may well be happy to stay there but any unexpected noise or event
could send him flying off.
He will probably not go far but it's not a risk worth taking in view of
all the hazzards he could encounter.

Steve n Misty
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

"Gutboy" <ug RemoveThis @ly.com> wrote in message
news:_TLah.113593$9K1.69845@fe01.news.easynews.com...
> Cutty (CAG 7yrs old) was clipped when I bought him.
> I had a freind who works with birds give him a cut, but after a while I
> decided to let them grow out. A couple of times when he crash landed he
> actually bent a flight feather right at the base under the skin . It stuck
> out at an odd angle from his body, and he was obviously in a great deal of
> pain. It was heartbreaking to see him that way.
>
> My thought is that it would never have happened if his wings were clipped,
> so in my case, (small rooms) it is probably more humane to keep them
> clipped. He can still fly with them clipped, by the way, only the longest
> flights are clipped in half, by a pro.

My grey was clipped, but never learnt to fly. But he started to pluck one
wing at age of 2 years, and that wing did not need any clipping. But the
other wing was not clipped.
At one bad day, he jumped out of the window, but could not fly because of
the plucked single wing while the other was not. He died a week after.

My current grey is not clipped and has learned to sit at my shoulder even
when I go out of the house. However, I would not advise anybody to do so,
but I personally learnt him to do so.
In addition, a non-clipped bird must learn to avoid to fly onto the window
(and would break his neck).

> All you PETA-tending people do animals a disservice by letting feathers
> grow naturally in an unnatural environment (a human house) which can lead
> to very painful and serious injury.

As you can see, my experience is just the other way around.

> By the way, at suppertime he says:
> "Whats for supper? Amburgers and WOOTbeer!"
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

"Steve" <sstevelp DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:1165259877.682778.47300@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> > By the way, at suppertime he says:
>> > "Whats for supper? Amburgers and WOOTbeer!"
>> >
>
> I would strongly advise that you do not go out with your grey on your
> shoulder.
> He may well be happy to stay there but any unexpected noise or event
> could send him flying off.
> He will probably not go far but it's not a risk worth taking in view of
> all the hazzards he could encounter.

That is true. It has happened one day.
I could pick him up the other day from a tree using a ladder :-)

Since then I use a special bird line.

:)
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

> I would strongly advise that you do not go out with your grey on your
> shoulder.
> He may well be happy to stay there but any unexpected noise or event
> could send him flying off.
> He will probably not go far but it's not a risk worth taking in view of
> all the hazzards he could encounter.
>
> Steve n Misty

Very good advice from someone who has had this happen! In my case the
bird (clipped, and until then, as far as I knew, flightless) flew onto a
tree trunk, then climbed out-of-reach, followed other branches to a
forested area in the park, and only with lots of work (and tree
climbing) was rescued before dark!

If on the other hand this had happened when walking on the sidewalk, the
bird could easily have flown into traffic.

So ... be sure he/she can't fly away if startled. There are harnesses
for parrots, btw, but unless you worked with the bird extensively with
it, probably starting very young, most will look at it as an avian iron
maiden!

.... and responding to Basanistes

Since then I allowed my bird to grow all her flight feathers in (and
since then the option of clipping them seems doubtful since the bird
would find it crippling -- something to keep in mind if you're
considering stopping clipping) and she is pretty savvy with regard to
the windows (this is a five-room apartment). For the most part she avoid
the windows altogether. If she flys to a window, she'll go for the sill
-- probably simply because it's "there" visibly as a perch.

Only twice have there been problems. She once flew out an open window. I
was fortunate enough to witness what happened. She did a full u-turn
(proving her flying abilities were much more advanced than I'd have
expected) and zoomed back into the room, at which point she landed on
the floor (very unusual) and basically had birdy hysterics. I live in a
building with the apartments above businesses at street level and the
street is very busy during the day.

Once, due to backfire I expect, she "exploded" into flight in a panic
and bumped into a windowpane. I'm guessing she instinctively knew it was
there because she yelled and landed on a nearby plant.

I guess an idea for people who decide to allow their birds to fly
indoors would be to introduce them to the windowsills *and* the concept
of glass. If they have seen firsthand that each window's setup includes
an invisible wall (depending on how clean it is, lol) they may add this
information to manoeuvring in the home.
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

On 27 Nov 2006 17:40:28 -0800, "Steve" <sstevelp.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:

>
>Gutboy wrote:
>> Cutty (CAG 7yrs old) was clipped when I bought him.
>> I had a freind who works with birds give him a cut, but after a while I
>> decided to let them grow out. A couple of times when he crash landed he
>> actually bent a flight feather right at the base under the skin . It stuck
>> out at an odd angle from his body, and he was obviously in a great deal of
>> pain. It was heartbreaking to see him that way.
>>
>> My thought is that it would never have happened if his wings were clipped,
>> so in my case, (small rooms) it is probably more humane to keep them
>> clipped. He can still fly with them clipped, by the way, only the longest
>> flights are clipped in half, by a pro.
>>
>> All you PETA-tending people do animals a disservice by letting feathers grow
>> naturally in an unnatural environment (a human house) which can lead to very
>> painful and serious injury.
>>
>> By the way, at suppertime he says:
>> "Whats for supper? Amburgers and WOOTbeer!"
>
>I think that this is something that has to be decided on specific
>circumstances.
>My CAG came to me with poorly clipped wings so he was unable to fly
>more than a few feet before landing with a bump. Luckily he was never
>hurt. I let his feathers grow back and he gradually relearned the
>tricky art of flying and navigation. I helped him by by holding him
>perched on my hand
>a few feet from his cage and then launching him with the word "fly". He
>now likes to fly in circles round the room and when he lands he often
>says "fly" then he has a little laugh. If I am in the kitchen he will
>fly to me through the serving hatch and then demand "water" (he loves
>hot water to drink) or spaghetti or toast. I think it is important that
>a house parrot is at least able to fly well enough to land well. A
>startled bird will instinctively try to fly whether it is able or not.
>The better it is able to fly the less the likelyhood it will be injured
>in a flying or landing accident.
>
>Steve n Misty


Well, yes and no. It depends on ceiling fans, and the individual
bird's tendency to try to fly out a window, or fly off a shoulder when
going for a ride while checking the mail.

I don't LIKE clipping, but I have to. However, I'm very careful to
clip "just enough so as to not fly upwards". My birds land softly, but
can't fly for distance (get away from me) or get up into a fan or a
tree. If you get a half-tame or half-trained bird in a tree, he is
very possibly dead where he stands/perches.

There is a middle road, and it's important.
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:16:58 GMT, "Ray" <No.mail.DeleteThis@the.com> wrote:

>
> Allowing full flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or
>escape.
>>
>>
>That advice is foolish. Full flight is possible (and should be) if the birds
>environment is safe. If you cant guarantee your birds safety while out of
>its cage then you shouldn't keep birds. And I am nothing to do with peta. I
>have kept fully flighted birds for over 20 years without any 'accidents'
>

Ignore this. Obviously a cat lover who puts his bird in danger 24/7.
You do not "control" an african grey. You are friends with a grey, but
that's about it. Much smarter than a dog, as stubborn as a cat, given
any chance, they CAN get away from you just out of curiosity.

Evidently Ray lives in a hermetically sealed underground cave.
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

Honestly, everything from a conure on up will tell you. Sometimes a
cockatiel or parakeet will too. When well trimmed, they are proud of
their feathers. Poorly trimmed, they bite at the ends and make their
feathers ragged.

On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:47:11 -0000, "coreyhullfc"
<coreyhullfc.RemoveThis@coreyhullfc.karoo.co.uk> wrote:

>how do you know when your bird's have had there wings clipped properly ?
>"Ray" <No.mail.RemoveThis@the.com> wrote in message
>news:K6Gbh.1271$GF5.311@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> Allowing full flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or
>> escape.
>>>
>>>
>> That advice is foolish. Full flight is possible (and should be) if the
>> birds environment is safe. If you cant guarantee your birds safety while
>> out of its cage then you shouldn't keep birds. And I am nothing to do with
>> peta. I have kept fully flighted birds for over 20 years without any
>> 'accidents'
>>
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

I hope this was a (very sick) joke.



On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:05:45 GMT, "HMW\(rr\)" <hymurstein DeleteThis @sw.rr.com>
wrote:

>If the bleeding stops before shock takes place ... you know you did a good
>job.
>http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww19eii.htm
>
>
>
>"coreyhullfc" <coreyhullfc DeleteThis @coreyhullfc.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:XOidnbtmJcqmJO_YnZ2dnUVZ8sGdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>> how do you know when your bird's have had there wings clipped properly ?
>> "Ray" <No.mail DeleteThis @the.com> wrote in message
>> news:K6Gbh.1271$GF5.311@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>>
>>> Allowing full flight is foolish and can only one day lead to death or
>>> escape.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That advice is foolish. Full flight is possible (and should be) if the
>>> birds environment is safe. If you cant guarantee your birds safety while
>>> out of its cage then you shouldn't keep birds. And I am nothing to do
>>> with peta. I have kept fully flighted birds for over 20 years without any
>>> 'accidents'
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping 

But some people just cant resist. My mother, for example, doesn't even
realize she's gone outside with her sun conure on her shoulder. She's
not stupid, she's not senile, she's not abusive. She just forgets he's
there. A gray, I suppose, is much harder to forget.

Doesn't matter. Wing clipping is like a conservative male haircut. Not
so much off you can see the KKK tattoo on the scalp, not so little off
it frizzes in damp weather. If the bird's happy, can land safely,
can't fly UPwards, then you be happy too. You have a neatly groomed
feathered friend who can get startled but not starve in the trees.



On 4 Dec 2006 11:17:57 -0800, "Steve" <sstevelp RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

>
>basanistes wrote:
>> "Gutboy" <ug RemoveThis @ly.com> wrote in message
>> news:_TLah.113593$9K1.69845@fe01.news.easynews.com...
>> > Cutty (CAG 7yrs old) was clipped when I bought him.
>> > I had a freind who works with birds give him a cut, but after a while I
>> > decided to let them grow out. A couple of times when he crash landed he
>> > actually bent a flight feather right at the base under the skin . It stuck
>> > out at an odd angle from his body, and he was obviously in a great deal of
>> > pain. It was heartbreaking to see him that way.
>> >
>> > My thought is that it would never have happened if his wings were clipped,
>> > so in my case, (small rooms) it is probably more humane to keep them
>> > clipped. He can still fly with them clipped, by the way, only the longest
>> > flights are clipped in half, by a pro.
>>
>> My grey was clipped, but never learnt to fly. But he started to pluck one
>> wing at age of 2 years, and that wing did not need any clipping. But the
>> other wing was not clipped.
>> At one bad day, he jumped out of the window, but could not fly because of
>> the plucked single wing while the other was not. He died a week after.
>>
>> My current grey is not clipped and has learned to sit at my shoulder even
>> when I go out of the house. However, I would not advise anybody to do so,
>> but I personally learnt him to do so.
>> In addition, a non-clipped bird must learn to avoid to fly onto the window
>> (and would break his neck).
>>
>> > All you PETA-tending people do animals a disservice by letting feathers
>> > grow naturally in an unnatural environment (a human house) which can lead
>> > to very painful and serious injury.
>>
>> As you can see, my experience is just the other way around.
>>
>> > By the way, at suppertime he says:
>> > "Whats for supper? Amburgers and WOOTbeer!"
>> >
>
>I would strongly advise that you do not go out with your grey on your
>shoulder.
>He may well be happy to stay there but any unexpected noise or event
>could send him flying off.
>He will probably not go far but it's not a risk worth taking in view of
>all the hazzards he could encounter.
>
>Steve n Misty
 >> Stay informed about: wing clipping