What do I need for an undergravel filter setup?

> I've read about gravel not being good before, but what else is there to make
> the bottom of the tank look a bit more pretty? Sand? What?
>

Unless you have plants or a UGF you don't need a substrate. I've gone from one
extreme of lots of gravel to the other with no gravel and now I'm somewhere in
between. Zero gravel is incredibly easy to clean. You can see anything on the
tank bottom that has to be removed. Zip Zip algae scrub. Zap Zap clean
bottom. Zap Zip 20% water change. Everything done in under 20 minutes! Lots of
gravel was a major pain to keep clean. Frankly I couldn't do the whole bottom
like I wanted to every week and it always took a long time and I always removed
too much water.

I like the look of my gravel though so I now I just have a thin layer of gravel,
enough so I can't see the glass underneath. It takes about 30 minutes to just
gravel vac the whole tank bottom. Even so I still find myself chucking a
handfull of gravel every other week.

I've heard people using sand, glass beads, larger rocks. You could also put
something underneath the tank to give the bottom some color. I have just plain
carboard under the tank but you can't tell its carboard unless you look really
close. What it does it make the bottom sort-of mirrored. In the tank center is
a castle decoration and I removed the gravel entirely from in front of it. It
makes it look like there is a pond inside the tank.

I've seen some "bare bottom" tanks that looked cool. The tank still has
decorations so its not completely empty.
E.Otter
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

"E.Otter" <no-email.DeleteThis@given.com> wrote in message
news:5_Kuc.5762$Yd3.4640@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Never used a UGF before, but when I was doing research on getting my first
| real tank I found the following about UGF's:
| 1) They only do biological filtering, they do it well but that isn't
enough.
| A successful tank should have mechanical filtration as well. In this case
| you would need to keep your fluval filter to do everything the UGF
couldn't.
| 2) Overtime the gravel becomes filled with too much fish waste, excess
food,
| and other stuff. This makes it more difficult to draw water through the
| gravel to be filtered making the UGF less effective.
| 3) If the UGF needed to be replaced it would be difficult and messy to
| remove.

Thanks for listing those points, it looks like an undergravel filter won't
be much use then, if we've got to keep the Fluval filter anyway.

One of the benefits were were hoping for is that we wouldn't need the fulval
filter stuck to the inside of the tank, and that the undergravel filter
would clean the dirt in the gravel a bit better.

As a second question then, what's the best way to clean gravel that's in the
tank? We've seen 'gravel cleaners' that are like little underwater hoovers
which run from an air pump - are they any good at all? Or is there
something better than this to clean gravel in the tank (without taking it
out)? The tank is pretty clean from our 20-30% water changes and cleaning
the inside of the glass, but if we touch or stir up the water by the gravel,
bits of dirt come out of the gravel, so we've got to be careful.


| Check to see if you can get foam inserts for the fluval. Foam would
become
| a "house" for the bacteria that does the biological filteration. You
| probably wouldn't need a second filter then.

We have both foam inserts and polyester inserts for our Fulval filter.


| E.Otter

Thanks,

Ste
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

I use large stones, and some smaller white stones. They are all too big to
fit in my goldfish's mouths. I don't have to many either just a few. I also
have potted plants and a couple of bridge ornaments. Having the tank as bare
bottom
is so easy to keep clean. Also easier to analyze their poop incase of internal
bacterial
problems.
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

"Geezer From The Freezer" <Geezer DeleteThis @Freezer.com> wrote in message
news:40BC3C45.93A07D1@Freezer.com...
|
| I use large stones, and some smaller white stones. They are all too big to
| fit in my goldfish's mouths. I don't have to many either just a few. I
also
| have potted plants and a couple of bridge ornaments. Having the tank as
bare
| bottom
| is so easy to keep clean. Also easier to analyze their poop incase of
internal
| bacterial
| problems.

I'll probably go the same way myself, with some small stones (but bigger
than gravel). My job will be finding some that are suitable for fish.

Out of interest, if I can't find any in the local pet/aquatic stores, will
pebbles from DIY stores be okay if I treat them in a certain way first?

We had a log ornament in our tank, but Albi (one of our fantails) got stuck
in it the other day. We carefully got him out, and threw this log in the
bin. We have replaced this with a giant mug, and the fish seem to like it -
Albi insists on putting gravel in there! :o)

Thanks,

Ste
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

"E.Otter" <no-email RemoveThis @given.com> wrote in message
news:9tLuc.5791$Yd3.3016@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
|
| > I've read about gravel not being good before, but what else is there to
make
| > the bottom of the tank look a bit more pretty? Sand? What?
| >
|
| Unless you have plants or a UGF you don't need a substrate. I've gone
from one
| extreme of lots of gravel to the other with no gravel and now I'm
somewhere in
| between. Zero gravel is incredibly easy to clean. You can see anything
on the
| tank bottom that has to be removed. Zip Zip algae scrub. Zap Zap clean
| bottom. Zap Zip 20% water change. Everything done in under 20 minutes!
Lots of
| gravel was a major pain to keep clean. Frankly I couldn't do the whole
bottom
| like I wanted to every week and it always took a long time and I always
removed
| too much water.
|
| I like the look of my gravel though so I now I just have a thin layer of
gravel,
| enough so I can't see the glass underneath. It takes about 30 minutes to
just
| gravel vac the whole tank bottom. Even so I still find myself chucking a
| handfull of gravel every other week.
|
| I've heard people using sand, glass beads, larger rocks. You could also
put
| something underneath the tank to give the bottom some color. I have just
plain
| carboard under the tank but you can't tell its carboard unless you look
really
| close. What it does it make the bottom sort-of mirrored. In the tank
center is
| a castle decoration and I removed the gravel entirely from in front of it.
It
| makes it look like there is a pond inside the tank.
|
| I've seen some "bare bottom" tanks that looked cool. The tank still has
| decorations so its not completely empty.
| E.Otter


Yes, I could certainly imagine how much easier it would be for a bare bottom
tank (or even a barer bottom tank), but for me, it all comes down to what
looks pretty. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against bare bottoms,
but when it comes to fish tanks, there's got to be something there. If not
gravel, then I'm certainly up for suggestions for alternatives, and will
keep a look out. Your suggestion for slightly larger rocks is probably
worth looking into - perhaps some pebbles?

Thanks,

Ste
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

In article <nsbvc.7847$Yd3.675@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"E.Otter" <no-email RemoveThis @given.com> wrote:

> The comparison bucket is to make sure that changes in these
> things are due to the rock and not to the water "degassing" disolved CO2 or
> other stuff. Obviously if the rock changes things too much you want to get
> rid
> of it. This method might be going overboard.

Sounds to me like the only way to do it.
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

In article <40bce48f$0$4590$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
ContactMeUsingTheContactForm.DeleteThis@sm9.co.uk says...
> If not
> gravel, then I'm certainly up for suggestions for alternatives, and will
> keep a look out. Your suggestion for slightly larger rocks is probably
> worth looking into - perhaps some pebbles?
>
There was a thread in this group or another aquaria group a
while back about using sand instead of gravel. Won't get stuck
in a fish's throat, and no big crevices for waste to hide in.
And it looks natural. At least that was the proponents claims.
As usual, there were differing opinions :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

In message <2i6u6aFjmavmU1.DeleteThis@uni-berlin.de>, Larry Blanchard
<lblanch.DeleteThis@fastmail.fm> writes
>In article <40bce48f$0$4590$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
>ContactMeUsingTheContactForm@sm9.co.uk says...
>> If not
>> gravel, then I'm certainly up for suggestions for alternatives, and will
>> keep a look out. Your suggestion for slightly larger rocks is probably
>> worth looking into - perhaps some pebbles?
>>
>There was a thread in this group or another aquaria group a
>while back about using sand instead of gravel. Won't get stuck
>in a fish's throat, and no big crevices for waste to hide in.
>And it looks natural. At least that was the proponents claims.
>As usual, there were differing opinions :-).

I've been puzzled as to how you'd vac. it - wouldn't it just all get
siphoned up?
>

--
sophie
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

sophie wrote:
> I've been puzzled as to how you'd vac. it - wouldn't it just all get
> siphoned up?
> >
>
> --
> sophie

Sand compacts. You just learn how close to put the vac to the sand...poop
comes off before the sand does!
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

In message <40BEC866.910E99D7 DeleteThis @Freezer.com>, Geezer From The Freezer
<Geezer DeleteThis @Freezer.com> writes
>
>
>sophie wrote:
>> I've been puzzled as to how you'd vac. it - wouldn't it just all get
>> siphoned up?
>> >
>>
>> --
>> sophie
>
>Sand compacts. You just learn how close to put the vac to the sand...poop
>comes off before the sand does!

aha. now I just need to find out what sort of sand to get; I'd been
thinking of bigger gravel, but sand and some big stones sounds nicer.

--
sophie
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

I had sand once, it became a nightmare...in the filters, over the plants, and
not
too great on goldies - sand paper?

sophie wrote:
>
> aha. now I just need to find out what sort of sand to get; I'd been
> thinking of bigger gravel, but sand and some big stones sounds nicer.
>
> --
> sophie
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

>I had sand once, it became a nightmare...in the filters, over the plants,
>and
>not
>too great on goldies - sand paper?

Anything can be a nightmare if you don't know what you are doing with it.
A sand bottom is best; the bottom stays clean, the fish are in a natural
environment when they are less stressed and can use their instinctive foraging
mechanisms. Common sense must be applied to keep the filter intakes up and away
from the bottom. A number of ways to keep sand from being injested by a filter
can be devised.
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup? 

BErney1014 wrote:
>
> >I had sand once, it became a nightmare...in the filters, over the plants,
> >and
> >not
> >too great on goldies - sand paper?
>
> Anything can be a nightmare if you don't know what you are doing with it.
> A sand bottom is best; the bottom stays clean, the fish are in a natural
> environment when they are less stressed and can use their instinctive foraging
> mechanisms. Common sense must be applied to keep the filter intakes up and away
> from the bottom. A number of ways to keep sand from being injested by a filter
> can be devised.

Actually the sand got in the filters from the goldies pulling it in swimming up
and
spitting it out. Also sand is not their natural enviroment.
 >> Stay informed about: What do I need for an undergravel filter setup?