undelivered post

luwei <invalid.DeleteThis@address.invalid> wrote:

> I just find that a post of mine through Hamster yestoday was dropped
> again. The news.out folder is empty, and I find it in news.err folder.
> The error message delivered to internal group says:
>
> [Hamster: archive-copy of posted article (hamster.en.scripts)]
> Result: 441 Wrong client's clock

What is the date of the article, and the date of the error message?
You'll also find the message in the log files, the exact date is at
least there.

> I think it must be caused by my poor unstable network connection.

You already got the server specific answer from daRkSidE.
I however believe this needs some more background information, because
it might be a more general problem.

1. The listed error message "441 Wrong client's clock" has been
generated by your external server. It is not from Hamster,
just to state that.
2. Most servers have a time window for posting. They do not
accept articles from the future, mostly with a tolerance
of 1 or 2 hours. And they also refuse to accept old articles,
also with a tolerance.
3. All this is based on the Date-Header of the article to post.

When the article is to new, as seen from the position of the server, it
refuses to accept it. This also happens with old articles. "To new" may
indeed happen if the computers clock has a wrong setting, possibly
because of ignored transition to daylight saving time or a wrong
timezone. Of course also the clock at the server may be wrong, but this
is less likely.
But with Hamster we have a new situation regarding old articles. The
Date-Header typically is set to the time the newsreader sent the article
to Hamster. Now Hamster can delay the further transport for some hours
or even days. Just post the article, and switch of your computer. Go to
vacation :-)



Good Byte,

Wilfried (from Hamburg)
--
Hroevtraf svaqr vpu, qnff EBG13 rvar mvrzyvpu oybrqr Zrgubqr vfg,
rvar Fvt. mh refgryyra. Qnf xnaa wn avrznaq ragmvssrea!
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daRkSidE <daxvixde DeleteThis @darkside.invalid> wrote in
news:1b9847qnyhqct.dlg@ID-184548.user.uni-berlin.de:


> It's due to your newsserver, aioe.org; I have already had this issue
> with it; ask to aioe.helpdesk.english for further details.
>
> This can be due to two facts:
>
> 1. Your PC clock doesn't work properly.

Excluded;
> 2. Your local newsserver is trying to send to aioe.org a post that is
> received at least three hours before.

Also excluded, for aioe.org didn't receive it. It's strange that I
never encountered this when I connect to aioe.org directly.

I'll ask at aioe.helpdesk.english or try X-private. Thank you.

--
Regards

Lu Wei
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Wilfried Kramer <noswen.TakeThisOut@arcor.de> wrote in
news:424bfe15.343894718@id-4017.my-fqdn.de:
>
> What is the date of the article, and the date of the error
> message? You'll also find the message in the log files, the exact
> date is at least there.
>
I just find out the message's date header (file name 51.msg, in the
News.err directory):
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:40:40 +0800

>> I think it must be caused by my poor unstable network connection.
I'm too arbitrary in this.
>
> You already got the server specific answer from daRkSidE.
> I however believe this needs some more background information,
> because it might be a more general problem.
> ...
>
Here's some more info: I write a post.hsc to post articles every 15
minutes. This is Hamster's first posting attempt:

2005-03-29 20:45:00 I {2} Scheduler starts script "post.hsc" (next
run at 2005-3-29 21:00:00)
2005-03-29 20:45:01 I {586} Check article
C:\PROGRA~1\Hamster\Groups\News.Out\51.msg
2005-03-29 20:45:01 D {586} Find POST server: hamster.en.scripts ->
news.aioe.org (is pullserver for group)
2005-03-29 20:45:01 I {586}
C:\PROGRA~1\Hamster\Groups\News.Out\51.msg accepted; will post to:
news.aioe.org
2005-03-29 20:45:01 Sys {587} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} Start
2005-03-29 20:45:01 I {587} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} Connecting ...
2005-03-29 20:45:01 D {587} TClientSocketNNTP.Connect
(news.aioe.org:119)
2005-03-29 20:47:01 ERR {587} Exception receiving data from
news.aioe.org:
2005-03-29 20:47:01 ERR {587} Exception[EIdReadTimeout] Read Timeout
2005-03-29 20:47:01 D {587} TClientSocketNNTP.Disconnect
(news.aioe.org:119)
2005-03-29 20:47:01 WAR {587} Connection to news.aioe.org failed!
2005-03-29 20:47:01 I {587} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} Disconnecting
....
2005-03-29 20:47:01 Sys {587} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} End

And this "read timeout" error continues every 15 minutes until it
finally get an available connection the next day:


2005-03-30 09:21:39 I {740} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} post 51.msg
2005-03-30 09:21:40 D {740} [news.aioe.org] PostArticle
2005-03-30 09:21:40 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > POST
2005-03-30 09:21:41 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 340 Ok, recommended
ID <d2cuug$v2v$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
2005-03-30 09:21:41 D {740} [news.aioe.org] Message sent, waiting for
confirmation ...
2005-03-30 09:21:43 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 441 Wrong client's
clock
2005-03-30 09:21:43 WAR {740} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} Posting failed:
441 Wrong client's clock (51.msg)
2005-03-30 09:21:43 I {740} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} Disconnecting
....
2005-03-30 09:21:43 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP.Disconnect
(news.aioe.org:119)
2005-03-30 09:21:43 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > QUIT
2005-03-30 09:21:44 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 205 .
2005-03-30 09:21:44 Sys {740} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} End

Do you think it's because "time window"--the aioe server think the
article is too old?

I wonder if I add a another server which carries hamster.* group,
whether hamster will try that server after it gets error on aioe.

--
Regards

Lu Wei
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Thanks daRkSidE and Wilfried, Aioe's administrator has confirmed that
they don't accept "old" articles, and he advise me to strip "date"
header. It seems only can be done by a script?

--
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Lu Wei
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In data Thu, 31 Mar 2005 06:35:04 +0000 (UTC), luwei ha scritto:

>> 2. Your local newsserver is trying to send to aioe.org a post that is
>> received at least three hours before.
> Also excluded, for aioe.org didn't receive it.

I try to reformulate:

| 2. Your local newsserver is trying to send to aioe.org a post that is
| received by your local newsserver at least three hours before.

> It's strange that I never encountered this when I connect to aioe.org
> directly.

This confirms what I said.

--
daRkSidE, 31/03/2005 17:35:35
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luwei <luweitest.TakeThisOut@sohu.com> wrote:

> Wilfried Kramer <noswen.TakeThisOut@arcor.de> wrote

>> What is the date of the article, and the date of the error
>> message? You'll also find the message in the log files, the exact
>> date is at least there.
>>
> I just find out the message's date header (file name 51.msg, in the
> News.err directory):
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:40:40 +0800

Below you give proof the external server is correct.


>> You already got the server specific answer from daRkSidE.
>> I however believe this needs some more background information,
>> because it might be a more general problem.
>> ...
>>
> Here's some more info: I write a post.hsc to post articles every 15
> minutes. This is Hamster's first posting attempt:


> 2005-03-29 20:47:01 ERR {587} Exception receiving data from news.aioe.org:
> 2005-03-29 20:47:01 ERR {587} Exception[EIdReadTimeout] Read Timeout
> 2005-03-29 20:47:01 D {587} TClientSocketNNTP.Disconnect (news.aioe.org:119)
> 2005-03-29 20:47:01 WAR {587} Connection to news.aioe.org failed!

Posting failed. In particular the server did not see your article in
51.msg at this time. In fact the server did not send any response.

> And this "read timeout" error continues every 15 minutes until it
> finally get an available connection the next day:
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have marked the critical information.


> 2005-03-30 09:21:39 I {740} {newsjobs news.aioe.org} post 51.msg
> 2005-03-30 09:21:40 D {740} [news.aioe.org] PostArticle
> 2005-03-30 09:21:40 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > POST
> 2005-03-30 09:21:41 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 340 Ok, recommended ID <d2cuug$v2v$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
> 2005-03-30 09:21:41 D {740} [news.aioe.org] Message sent, waiting for confirmation ...

In the format of RFC Date, this would be
| Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:21:41 +0800


> Do you think it's because "time window"--the aioe server think the
> article is too old?

Exactly this is the case.
When Hamster posts the article to the server (note, Hamster is operating
as a Client to external servers) the article is more than 12 hours old.
Looks like the server has a window of 12 hours into the past.

> I wonder if I add a another server which carries hamster.* group,
> whether hamster will try that server after it gets error on aioe.

Not by automatic, but by script.
It depends on your script. basically you can use your normal servers to
post all articles. When Hamster is ready, as detected by function
HamWaitIdle (see Help), you do not terminate the script, you just start
posting to the reliable server.

May look something like this:
|
| HamNewsJobsClear
| HamNewsJobsPullDef
| HamNewsJobsPostDef
| HamNewsJobsStart
|
| HamWaitIdle
|
| HamNewsJobsPostDef
| HamNewsJobsStart("your.reliable.server,nntp")
|
| HamWaitIdle
|

The easiest way to repost the article in 51.msg is removing the
Date:-Header. I assume this, because the server must add a Date: if the
article has none. Open 51.msg in Notepad, remove the Date:-Header line,
save the file, and move it to news out.


Good Byte,

Wilfried (from Hamburg)
--
Hroevtraf svaqr vpu, qnff EBG13 rvar mvrzyvpu oybrqr Zrgubqr vfg,
rvar Fvt. mh refgryyra. Qnf xnaa wn avrznaq ragmvssrea!
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Wilfried Kramer <noswen.DeleteThis@arcor.de> wrote in
news:4260468b.427984593@id-4017.my-fqdn.de:

> ...

Thanks for your detailed explanation.

>> I wonder if I add a another server which carries hamster.* group,
>> whether hamster will try that server after it gets error on aioe.
>
> Not by automatic, but by script.
> It depends on your script. basically you can use your normal
> servers to post all articles. When Hamster is ready, as detected
> by function HamWaitIdle (see Help), you do not terminate the
> script, you just start posting to the reliable server.
>
> May look something like this:
>|
>| HamNewsJobsClear
>| HamNewsJobsPullDef
>| HamNewsJobsPostDef
>| HamNewsJobsStart
>|
>| HamWaitIdle
>|
>| HamNewsJobsPostDef
>| HamNewsJobsStart("your.reliable.server,nntp")
>|
>| HamWaitIdle
>|
>
If Hamster encounter a server error as "wrong clock", the message is
moved to News.err directory, how can next
"HamNewsJobsStart("your.reliable.server,nntp")" work?

> The easiest way to repost the article in 51.msg is removing the
> Date:-Header. I assume this, because the server must add a Date:
> if the article has none. Open 51.msg in Notepad, remove the
> Date:-Header line, save the file, and move it to news out.
>
That's troublesome; Seems I must write a scipt to remove all "date"
header after NewsOut action events.


--
Regards

Lu Wei
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luwei <luweitest RemoveThis @sohu.com> wrote:

> Wilfried Kramer <noswen RemoveThis @arcor.de> wrote

>> Not by automatic, but by script.
>> It depends on your script. basically you can use your normal
>> servers to post all articles. When Hamster is ready, as detected
>> by function HamWaitIdle (see Help), you do not terminate the
>> script, you just start posting to the reliable server.
>>
>> May look something like this:
>> |
>> | HamNewsJobsClear
>> | HamNewsJobsPullDef
>> | HamNewsJobsPostDef
>> | HamNewsJobsStart
>> |
>> | HamWaitIdle
>> |
>> | HamNewsJobsPostDef
>> | HamNewsJobsStart("your.reliable.server,nntp")
>> |
>> | HamWaitIdle
>> |
>>
> If Hamster encounter a server error as "wrong clock", the message is
> moved to News.err directory, how can next
> "HamNewsJobsStart("your.reliable.server,nntp")" work?

Because the "Wrong Clock" error will not appear in the first place.
You had a long period with many attempts to post the article. All these
failed, because you could not contact the server. The article 51.msg
remained in news.out. But 12 hours later the server was contacted, and
replied "441 Wrong client's clock". Hamster sees the 441 and shifts
51.msg to news.err
Now, if you also had tried to post the article to a different server
during this period, you would have had success. So there was never a
chance to see the error.

>> The easiest way to repost the article in 51.msg is removing the
>> Date:-Header. I assume this, because the server must add a Date:
>> if the article has none. Open 51.msg in Notepad, remove the
>> Date:-Header line, save the file, and move it to news out.

> That's troublesome;

For one single article? Not really.

> Seems I must write a scipt to remove all "date"
> header after NewsOut action events.

If you follow the strategy as described above, you do not need to.



Good Byte,

Wilfried (from Hamburg)
--
To send me an email, take the address of my From, encode it via ROT13, convert
it to upper case, encode it with ROT13 _again_.
Or just hit Reply in your software.
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Dino <no.email.replies DeleteThis @excite.com> wrote in
news:Fri.01.Apr.2005.190255.01B3D0F8C2@StarCruiser.dk:

> On 1-4 2005, luwei wrote in hamster.en.config:
>
>> That's troublesome; Seems I must write a scipt to remove all
>> "date" header after NewsOut action events.
>
> No, you don't have to delete the Date-header, change it before
> sending instead.
> ....

A good script for me to study. Thank you.

--
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Lu Wei
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Wilfried Kramer <noswen.DeleteThis@arcor.de> wrote in
news:4252d153.88250187@id-4017.my-fqdn.de:

> Because the "Wrong Clock" error will not appear in the first
> place. You had a long period with many attempts to post the
> article. All these failed, because you could not contact the
> server. The article 51.msg remained in news.out. But 12 hours
> later the server was contacted, and replied "441 Wrong client's
> clock". Hamster sees the 441 and shifts 51.msg to news.err
> Now, if you also had tried to post the article to a different
> server during this period, you would have had success. So there
> was never a chance to see the error.
> ...

In my case here, if I can't access aioe.org, in principle I can't
access any servers else. It usually means that our poor proxy is in
"convulsion" again. Nothing could be done at that time.


--
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Lu Wei
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luwei <luweitest RemoveThis @sohu.com> wrote:

> It seems only can be done by a script?

or manually

cu

mgk
--
Was Murphy optimistisch denkend verschweigt:
"anything that might go wrong will go wrong when it hurts most".
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