HOWEDY marie,
"Marie" <mmbarkcw.RemoveThis@rogers.com.goaway> wrote in message
news:dqmdnXcNSoc0DX_cRVn-vA@rogers.com...
>
> They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
INDEED?
> So I guess I should be flattered.
You should be locked up in a rubber room.
> The boys have begun to imitate me whenever
> I ask Macula to do something.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
> For example, if she is in the backyard and I
> am calling her in, I will suddenly have 2 little
> shadows beside me waving their hands and
> calling too.
Ain't that special. HOWE COME your dog
won't COME to you when you call her till
the kids get there to ask again?
> The fact that they can't talk,
Like your dog?
> don't do the hand signals, willing go *to*
> Macula instead of making her go to them
> and happily give her treats for doing *nothing*
> at all doesn't necessarily make their help very helpful.
Well that's got NUTHIN to do with trainin.
> So am I training the boys to give commands
> to Macula or Macula to listen to the boys?
Perhaps you should train Macula first? You've
had her to four or five professional trainin courses
and a behaviorist. Your dog attacked a pedestrian
on the street and assaulted a skateboarder in the
park a couple days after your finished your "OFF
LEAD" classes. REMEMBER marie?
> Are the boys teaching Macula that they are
> bosses-to-be-obeyed
Like HOWE you done, marie?
> or is Macula training them to be her treat-machines?
Like HOWE you done, marie?
> Or is Macula simply finding another excuse
> to ignore us all because too many "commands"
> are coming her way?
No. Macula IGNORES you on accHOWENT OF
YOU ABUSE HER. You'll have the same problemes
with your children. Stick arHOWEND, marie. Your
CASE HISTORY is AMAZING.
> I have to admit, though: it *is* really cute watching
> the boys "calling" Macula ;-)
Like HOWE you do, marie? "Flattery" and all?
Duh?
> Marie and all her puppies.
HERE'S HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual STUDENTS all over the Whole Wild
World DO IT GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
and FOR FREE, to boot:
"Amanda@DCFWatch.com" <Amanda.RemoveThis@dcfwatch.com
wrote in message news:
91381045.0301221814.7aa3a7f6.RemoveThis@posting.google.com...
news: 91381045.0301211225.6d5f60e5.RemoveThis@posting.google.com...
>
> This makes me wonder. If the dog taught himself to get
> the kid off of it by biting, why can't you teach it another
> method.
When my dog nipped to protect my kids, i taught
her with distraction and praise.
> What did you teach her to do instead of nipping?
First we used distraction and praise to teach her
biting is not ok. 2 weeks ago we had to separate
her from the puppy in order to feed them.
She would run over, bite him then take his food.
If he licked the carpet where juice was spilled he
got bitten. just examples.
Then during meals, when she moved toward him
we (me, my husband, jerry and his wife) used sound
distraction and praise.
We trained her to stay away from him.
Then we let them get close, when she looked like
she was thinking of biting (snap) good girl! good
dog... and she would let him close.
since he advanced to eating her food she began
laying down and allowing him to take over. so we
taught her to find his food and eat his.
Just doing this has taught her to share. If he's too
roudy and the kids aren't inviting.. she will find her
rope and give it to him. if he takes her kong, she
does and finds his and either gets him to take his
own kong or simply lets him have his.
we did this by feeding her as much as she wanted,
giving her plenty of toys. we taught her there is always
more.. we broke that instinct of self preservation.
now they share from the same bowl. not even a growl.
then when she growled because my friends kid went near her
while she was nursing, we put her on lead just long enough to
come 1 foot from the kid. just in case. we put the kid on the
floor in her mum's lap with the puppy and used distraction and
praise if she seemed upset. then when she went near the kid in
a fashion like she was going to protect something.. the kids,
their food what have you..
we used praise and distraction. then it progressed to
the other day.. the kid was smacking kelly in the face.
pummeling beyond all belief she has taken from my
own kids.. like if the 23 lb 19 month old goes to stand
on her, kelly will brace herself and hold still so the baby
doesn't fall off.
when the baby stands on her we distract the baby and
praise kelly for waiting. so anyway.. she's being smacked
in the face by the same kid who likes to try and dig eyeballs
out. kelly snarled her lip.. no sound.. just showed her teeth...
sound and praise!
and she broke her thought and came over to me. when
the puppy was biting her so hard she cried (pits dont cry
easily) we used sound and praise when she went to defend
herself.
then we would go to him and distract him off. in less
than a week she learned to either a. drag him to me
or my husband still attached and shaking her ear/neck/leg
or b. distract him herself.
she sees us use distraction and gentle measures and
she does them too. when he's trying to dig a hole she
engages him in play.
when the kid is going somewhere she shouldn't.. kelly
will run over to her.. and seperate the kid from say the
kitchen and guide her in another direction.
when the puppy is biting something he shouldn't.. she
finds a kong and offers him the appropriate chewing method.
Dogs are smart. She only knew to nip or growl or bite. We
taught her gentle ways and she learned them. Dogs don't
want to bite kids or puppies or people.. but they want results.
if they know the food will never run out.. why should they
bite over food? if they know someone else will distract a
biting pup why would she bite him?
all she has to do is find me and i will do it... why does
she need to nip the lil kid again? she knows i will stop
the kid from hurting her. yes it still requires alot of
supervision, because this kid does in fact hurt her alot
and she is not part of our pack.
but that ispart of my responsibility as well.
Jerry calls it allomimetic behaviour.. i think its plain logic.
the dog won't bite if it knows a whimper or cry will
attract help. but if no one else is in control... as we
were not two weeks ago.. the dog will take matters
into its own hands.
And for Donna who asked how safe setting up an incident is?
it is very safe. If you know the dog will bite the kid if it
goes near its food.. you put the dog on lead and have someone
hold the lead securely. MAKE SURE the lead will not reach
say.. 1.5 feet away from the food dish. then let the kid go
near the food. the dog couldn't reach if it tried, and if it
did you are right there to priase distract.
It is much more difficult in the OP's situation since
the kid is close enough to bite. i'll let jerry elaborate
on that. and i wouldn't try that without his advice.
but if you know your dog likes to lunge through the
front door at the mailman.. put the dog on lead and
open the door and use praise/distraction.. the dog
won't go anywhere, but you can set it up to stop the
thought.
it's really a common sense thing. i knew i needed to set up a
situation and knew i couldn't risk a bite.. so i used a
freaking leash that wasn't long enough to reach the lil kid.
voila. by the time the dog realized it wanted to do something
bad.. it forgot it was on lead... and you distract/praise and
break the behaviour before the dog is mid lunge at the end of
the leash.
Amanda.
Whose vicious, aggressive, hopeless pit bull who should
be watched carefully walked by a barking dog who was off
lead as it growled at me and heeled immediately to "protect"
but never used more than 1 foot of the lead and didn't bark or
growl back.
From: Amanda.RemoveThis@DCFWatch.com(Amanda@dcfwatch.com)
Subject: Re: when to start obedience
training classes Date: 2003-01-06 22:14:14 PST
wfdt.RemoveThis@msn.com (Lt. Joel Walton, CPDT) wrote in message
news:<cb19da7a.0301061558.7ba5a695.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
> Start training your puppy now using lure/reward and/or
> clicker training. Do not use any physical punishment.
>
> Find a great puppy class and get started at the earliest
> possible time.
>
> Good luck with your pup.
>
> best, Lt. Joel Walton, CPDT http://www.joelwalton.com Walton
> Family Dog Training LLC aggressive behavior cases
> Washington DC area author of: Positive Puppy Training Works
> Labrador Retrievers for Dummies
I used reward based training with limited results. When my
dog was hungry she obeyed and when she wasn't.. well she did
whatever she wanted. Her behaviours steadily increased to
overly protective tendencies, guarding etc.
She had previously been abused so I knew not to even
attempt any physical punishment. Eventually we had
a hard time walking if another dog was around. She
wouldn't try to escpae my grip, but she would become
very defensive and eventually i would have to sit down
with her and calm her down.
Fast forward to us bringing home a new puppy. She
wouldn't allow him near us. If he tried moving toward
us she bit him. Since he was 5 weeks old I needed an
expert to help me solve this problem and quickly.
Within 5 minutes of an email, Jerry Howe phone me at
home at 10pm on a sunday night. Sunday before christmas
to be exact. I followed his methods.. no punishment, no
scolding, no treats.. just praise and distraction.
Within two days my 20 mo female's milk came in and
she was nursing this pup every two hours or so for about
a half hour.. despite her raw nipples that were cracked and
bleeding.. she would become upset if i took him off of her..
preferring to nurse him.
Despite hearing many bad things about him, personally, and his
methods this dog continues making great strides. for instance
she had nipped my friends daughter for going after my child's
food.. while my child screamed and this lil girl continued
Kelly (my pit/staffy) took it upon herself to nip the child to
get her to leave my child alone.
Highly unacceptable, I phoned Jerry.
We followed his advice/training and today I found
my dog on the floor.. cornered.. being poked in the
eyes and hurt by this lil girl with her only response
being to show her teeth and growl quietly.
Whereas this is most unacceptable in my eyes.. my dog who
would have nipped this child restrained herself.. and when
praised and distracted showed remorse.. knowing she did
improperly.
Then later when this lil girl was bugging her again did not come
close to her. Given that merely a week ago my dog snarled at
this lil girl while she approached the nursing pup, this is
marked improvement.
She now eats in the same area as the same pup she
was biting two weeks ago.. and also lets him eat treats
even when she finishes hers. Previously our nights
were filled with endless barking due to our dog being outside
barking in response to our neighbors dogs.. now a Good girl!
Good dog sends her right into the house to lay down and
ignore them.
Why is this training so advanced and easier than the
reward/clicker methods? Why is jerry's methods giving me
incredible results with minimal effort and no treats/bribes?
Why are you advocating treat training when in reality you are
relying on the dog's desire for a small kibble being stronger
than its desire to run.. and sad to say.. you cannot treat
train when it comes to overly protective tendencies.
I used these methods to the t.. and i did receive results...
she does well at sit, stay, down,speak and shake.. she
knows off and come and git... but it simply came down
to their hunger pains being stronger than their wishes...
and you simply cannot train a dog to not be protective by
food. A good dog will ignore food and protect its pack.
As they should or all a burglar would need is some beggin'
strips.
Discipline - The "NO!" Command - HOWE Dogs And
Children Learn To Tell You "NO!" And HOWE COME
They RUN HOWET On You
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amanda [mailto:amanda@dcfwatch.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Discipline
>
> On Tuesday 14 January 2003 20:47, T__ wrote:
>
> funny you bring this up... i met the most wonderful
> couple.. man and wife.. he's a dog trainer.. all his life
> who uses a technique that is ONLY praise and distraction
> with some family pack exercises.
>
>They spent the day with us sunday helping me on my
> two pits... one is a protective/aggressive 20 month old
> female who is my bubby :) and our 7 week male pup.
> anyway.. not only did i nip any and all aggression issues
> in mere minutes...he and his wife helped me with my kids.
>
> I was and always have been a spanker.
>
> It is all i knew how.. i never, ever wanted to be..
> but i was. my house/kids were out of control..
> i was always stressed.
>
> Since he and his wife came down sunday we've
> had a HUGE change... for the first time the kids
> didn't destroy my house before i woke up... my
> 3yo was in my bed coloring waiting for us to wake
> up... this is the first time she ever used paper
> :) she usually does walls, furniture.
>
> Anyway.. he told me to use sound/praise.. and it works.
>
> I have a 6 yo, 3.5 yo who is psycho child :) and a very
> bad-a$$ 19 month old. They are all smarter than I am and
> know it :) There has not been a temper tantrum in two
> days in my house.
>
> You guys have no idea how great this is.
>
> But best of all.. this method does NOT use the evil eye
> or a tone of that is in any way short of absolute praise..
> no shouting.. not even a quiet Chloe!.. nada.. ONLY
> praise.
>
> They even taught my kids not to take candy unless
> i say so.. (my oldest will literally let you pierce her
> ears for candy..
>
> it's been done twice and i keep taking em out) and
> now the bag of blow pops i forget on the floor in my
> closet (where we keep the girl's dressed) is still there
> and NO ONE has eaten one! My 3 yo is even helping
> me pick up the house.. the baby took my lingerie chest
> apart.. and she cleaned it up! first time!
>
> They don't even go out the open door without my
> offering it! they helped me sort laundry.. clean the
> living room... im amazed. The 3 yo got some yogurt
> from the fridge andwalked to our kitchen table, sat
> down and ate it.. she REFUSES to sit at the table
> and eat!
>
> We also taught them and the dogs to sit pretty so
> when they're climbing on my couch.. i go Can you
> show me how you sit pretty?? and they ALL hop
> down and show me to sit pretty with their feet NOT
> on the cofee table.. hands friggin folded.. i almost
> fell over..
>
> thanks for reminding me to share my joy!
>
> I'm not a spanker! I don't even yell! lol!
>
> here i picked names that shout well and i don't need em!!!
>
> > how old is your bub amanda? waht's the bub doing?/
> > Hello again ladies,
> > Amanda, I love your signature. I also do not spank my
> > daughter, however, she is at an age where she really is
> > asserting her independence.
> > Can anyone help with ideas of what I can do? Blessings,
> > T.
Subject: Re Discipline. Also, SLEEP!
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:38:46 -0500
From: Amanda <amanda.RemoveThis@dcfwatch.com>
> Can you go into this a little more? How did they
> accomplish all this in one day?
My learning is progressive. I email or call him with
questions. But, i'm getting most of it myself. Something
clicked.
How would we do it with our families?
that is kind of broad.. ask me specifics... or i'd still be
typing when your kids are in college ;)
> I really have problems controlling my temper when I am
> already stressed out and then C__ is hurting me:
Me too.. i was abused... my mom was psycho... and i had
problems with anger.. i took it personally when my 6 yr old
wouldn't clean her room... i would sometimes cry is was so
strung out.. i didn't wanna spank but i didn't know what to do
instead.. so i spanked.. and then spanking didn't work.. and
then my dogs went nuts and i called this trainer and he showed
me how to do it.
pulling my hair, scratching me, slapping me, etc.
Mine hit me on purpose alot.. scratching.. climbing on me..
hurting me and then laughing.
Now as I post.. please don't think im trying to be a know it
all.. i simply wanna relay what i have learned... as it is
i've only been spank free for a week now and yell free for two
days (my neighbors two streets over are happy :)
Children, dogs, people.. they do thinks wrong because it
ellicits your ultimate attention. Does your 3 year old enjoy
fingerpainting on walls? no... do they enjoy fighting the minute
you pick up the phone?? No.
They *know* they can command your attention.. and that's
what they
want. same reason your dogs fight.. they think it is
controlling you.
Your kids want you watching their every move.. making sure
they eat.. dont talk to strangers.. because it means you are
watching THEM and not them watching you as it should be. they
should stay within x feet of you.. because they like mom and
she's cool and she keeps em safe... they shouldn't run and
expect you to chase them.. because you won't always be there
to chase them... that's how kids die or get lost.
When they learn to follow you.. it's all good.
Now, take my 19 mo old. She had this habit of sipping 4 oz
from her bottle and demanding more. if i didn't refill it..
she threw a hgue fit. Now she hands me her bottle and says
more.. and i tickle her... then i pick up her bottle and
pretend im drinking it.. i offer her a drink and snatch it
back saying MY Baba!! She wants that bottle.. so she takes it
and drinks it.. even tho i didn't refill it. we had a huge
problem with them taking things they cant have and when i
wanted it they ran... now i give the baby (19mo) my finger..
and she grabs it.. and i wiggle and shout My finger! that's
mine! Gimme it back.. playfully.. and she resists.. and i go
"Ooh.. can i have it please?" and she gives it to me and i
gleefully say Thank you! and she says you're welcome.. and i
give her the finger back... then i hand her say a lighter...
and we wrestle for a minute.. and i say... can i have that???
and she gives it over etc. Of course sometimes she'll have a
cool! book! and ill ask can i have that.. and shell say No.
and i say that's ok! and tickle her or snap my fingers and
say good girl naya.. good job.. then ill start my game again
and wrestle and try to take it gently... then.. can i have
that??? she gives it over. this works with everything now.
> Or when he's ripping up my homework or something like
> that.
Yea... with the dog training you hide nothing.. no forced
control. you set the dog up for fail.. so you can distract
and praise and erase the thought.. same with the kids. Put
some unimportant paper all over.. when he goes to touch it..
make a sound and distract him.. then good boy, that's a nice
baby!... then repeat.. the minute he goes for the paper and
breaks the thgouth you throw him in the air and praise like
mad!
> How would I apply this in those situations? Also, what do
> you do in 'danger' situations (until you're close enough
> to distract them) - climbing on things, sticking metal
> objects into electrical outlets, trying to get into the
> oven, etc.?
Use your judgement.. if you have the distance/time to
distract... do it.. if you don't... pick them up and away..
but act like it's to throw em in the air.. so they don't know
youre forcing control by phsycially removing them... cuz when
you force control.. with the come command when you want your
dog away from something... or when you pull a dirty shoe from
your baby's mouth.. you put value on it.
Like when your kid puts a penny in its mouth.. youll try to
pry its mouth open to get it... and he'll clamp right down..
you gave that penny VALUE! it's not just a piece of crap..
mom WANTS IT!
so.. instead you make a game.. say you want em to smit it
out... walk somewhere else... attract their attention.. be
kinda sneaky... odds are the thing in their mought will get
annoying and they'll spit it out when they walk toward you...
if all else fails.. pry it outta their smiling jaws... snatch
em up away from falling down... but only when you have to..
then work realy hard to overcome that forced control.
Also don't make a big deal about it.. or else theyll learn not
only to command your attention, but also mom will always catch
me so she is watching me.. not me watching her.
> I never realized how spirited C__ was until I started
> tending other kids.
those are my kids. I have had social workers with their
degrees in child development stop offering me services cuz
they couldn't handle my kids... my friends call mine the
obstinate kids.
> They're docile kittens compared to C__! This brings up
> another question - what do you do when YOUR child is the
> bully?
if you catch it before it happens.. loud sound.. big
distraction and PRAISE. if you catch it afterward... distract
and say oh my goodness! and pay attention to the other kid...
he wont get the attention... then explain how that hurts.
odds are your kid won't hurt another kid if he truly
understands its not nice.
> C__ is always beating the other boy over the head when he
> comes over.
> We don't hit in anger in our family
i have.. everyone does in my family... i did it a few times
over 4 years... but that is because i didn't know how not to.
i know now.. and i wanna tell everyone i can.. so someone else
doesn't spank their kids due to a lack of knowledge.
> (we do it playfully sometimes, so we are curtailing that
> in case it is giving him ideas)
my kids, 6yo, 3yo and 19 month old, favorite game is chasing
around the house (all 4 of us) with wooden spools yelling at
the top of our lungs "I'm gonna beat your a$$.. HA HA HA... no
IM gonna beat YOUR a$$ MU HA HA HA" my neighbors prolly
think im nuts.. but the kids love it dog even plays too
> but I admit that after I have been trying to get him to go
> to sleep for 45 minutes, I get a little rough sometimes.
> It's really frustrating. He'll be dead tired - eyes
> bright red, fussy, eyes almost closing every 5 seconds.
It gets worse... they all do it around that time.. they don't
want to sleep.. andyou know what? they don't grow out of it
until they're parents :) it's one of those times you have to
use your patience and keep distracting and praising.
> So I'll take him into the bedroom, and lay down to nurse
> him. He'll nurse for about 5 seconds and then jump up and
> run to the window and start bending the blinds.
he wants you upset.. he wants your undivided attention. you
have to refuse it.. no evil eye.. no "conner" quiet or not..
no anger.. complete nonchalance.. they have to have a total
complete entire lack fo negative attention.. and all they'll
be able to do is sit back and enjoy the positive!
One shout.. one name call.. one No! and it takes awhile to
work up to the positive only.
> So I gently pick him up and lay him back down.
try not to.. but if you have to ok
> And we repeat the process over 10000 times.
when he goes to sit up.. when yous see the thought on his
face.. distract with sound and follow with praise or a song or
giggle.
> Then I get frustrated and lay him down less gently.
better than my method of plop em in the crib and let em cry.
No anger.. stay calm.. meditate, pray.. breath.. try to
remember they will not always be this small.. and youll never,
ever for anything get it back. it's what im using
> That makes him cry, which is the last straw that
> FINALLY gets him to nurse to sleep.
He got you riled up.. what he wanted.. time to sleep.
> Writing it out, I thought of something. He must have a
> lot of excess tension he needs to release before sleeping,
> and finally crying releases it for him.
no way... crying isn't a release.. sometimes.. maybe for
some people.. crying is frustration, pain, hunger,
sadness... sometimes joy.. sometimes tension.. but not
because of his life.. because he's insecure... their dealing
with negative and positive.. and thats what makes em
insecure.
> Any good ways to do this that don't involve crying?
distraction and praise.. if all else fails get up and dance..
fast for day.. slow rocking at night.
> Turning on soft music and swaying in the sling used to
> work for us, but now he either grabs at everything he can
> reach or bends over backwards until he's hanging upside
> down.
cuzhe knows what you're doing. hold him instead.. or sit him
in your lap on the bed and rock
> Putting the sling over his shoulders to prevent that
> doesn't work either. He acts like he is being tortured
> and screams and fights to get out.
becuase it is forced control.
> Katie
Amanda
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