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Since: Jun 19, 2007 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:55 pm
Post subject: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? Archived from groups: alt>pets>rodents>rats (more info?)
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I can't make up my mind, so any advice would be helpful.
As best I can, I'll try to describe her condition.
At some point in the past two months I think she had a stroke of some
kind. After that, her condition has steadily deteriorated.
She is at a point right now where she has pretty much lost use of 3/4 of
her legs. She cannot clean herself. She has a hard time eating. Every
once in awhile she has what seems to be a quick little seizure. Her
cagemate pretty much ignores her at this point. She can't climb. She
can't jump. When she tries to clean herself, she'll invariably fall
over. She struggles to get back on her feet using her tail and good leg.
I help her eat and I give her a sponge bath every day to help her keep
clean.
That said, she does eat. She doesn't seem to be in any pain. She
responds when I make noises around her. When I put her on the floor,
she can walk and even run, sort of - at least until she hits a wall.
In short, from what I can tell, her quality of life seems to be
horrible, but she doesn't seem to be in obvious pain. She's not yet 2
years old.
If she was your rat, would would you do?
Thanks for any advice you can give.
Best Regards,
--Hank Stalica >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 125
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:05 am
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hank Stalica <user.RemoveThis@example.net> wrote:
<snip>
If she were my rat, I would look at the way she behaves, as you describe.
I will take a rat to be put down if:
1. The rat appears to be in a great deal of pain or discomfort
or
2. The rat appears to take no pleasure in life and does not appear to
obtain any enjoyment from usually pleasant activities such as eating or
interaction with humans or other rats.
As long as she is not in pain and is getting at least some pleasure out
of life, I would not put down. If, however, she meets one of the criteria
consistently for a reasonable amount of time, I would take her to the
vets.
As you describe her, personally I would adopt a "watch and wait"
strategy, and try to make her life as pleasant as possible; however, I
have not seen her for myself, and on a text-based medium it is virtually
impossible to form a full impression of her. So, it's only my opinion,
based on what evidence can be conveyed on a newsgroup, and shouldn't be
taken to mean that you should do what I would do!
I hope Kia and you can both continue to take some pleasure in her life
and that you feel comfortable about your decision, whatever it may be.
Good luck - you're obviously a caring and conscientious pet-owner :-)
Rosemary >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: Jun 19, 2007 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:06 am
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Thank you for the response and advice, Rosemary.
I definitely understand the limits of the medium and how at best all I
can do is paint a vague picture. I think just examining even other
owner's thinking towards what I can describe is helpful.
When to put your pet down is the toughest decision. It's something that
I definitely want to do as responsibly as possible.
The first rat I had put down, Sierra, it was a much clearer decision as
she was slowly starving to death. But with Kia, I think it's a matter
of how much is she enjoying life? I do not believe she is suffering
which makes it tougher. How do you put value on life? That's something
that seems really subjective which makes it more difficult. Therefore,
I think getting the most opinions I can will be the most helpful in
making the decision.
My gut is that #2 is the case, but I would rather err on the side of
putting her down too late rather than too early. Rats get such a short
time on earth that it seems a travesty to cut it short unnecessarily.
Best Regards,
--Hank Stalica
Rosemary wrote:
> Hank Stalica <user.DeleteThis@example.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> If she were my rat, I would look at the way she behaves, as you describe.
>
> I will take a rat to be put down if:
>
> 1. The rat appears to be in a great deal of pain or discomfort
>
> or
>
> 2. The rat appears to take no pleasure in life and does not appear to
> obtain any enjoyment from usually pleasant activities such as eating or
> interaction with humans or other rats.
>
> As long as she is not in pain and is getting at least some pleasure out
> of life, I would not put down. If, however, she meets one of the criteria
> consistently for a reasonable amount of time, I would take her to the
> vets.
>
> As you describe her, personally I would adopt a "watch and wait"
> strategy, and try to make her life as pleasant as possible; however, I
> have not seen her for myself, and on a text-based medium it is virtually
> impossible to form a full impression of her. So, it's only my opinion,
> based on what evidence can be conveyed on a newsgroup, and shouldn't be
> taken to mean that you should do what I would do!
>
> I hope Kia and you can both continue to take some pleasure in her life
> and that you feel comfortable about your decision, whatever it may be.
>
> Good luck - you're obviously a caring and conscientious pet-owner :-)
>
> Rosemary >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 125
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hank Stalica wrote:
> Rosemary wrote:
>> Hank Stalica wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> If she were my rat, I would look at the way she behaves, as you
>> describe.
>>
>> I will take a rat to be put down if:
>>
>> 1. The rat appears to be in a great deal of pain or discomfort
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2. The rat appears to take no pleasure in life and does not appear to
>> obtain any enjoyment from usually pleasant activities such as eating
>> or interaction with humans or other rats.
>>
>> As long as she is not in pain and is getting at least some pleasure
>> out of life, I would not put down. If, however, she meets one of the
>> criteria consistently for a reasonable amount of time, I would take
>> her to the vets.
>>
>> As you describe her, personally I would adopt a "watch and wait"
>> strategy, and try to make her life as pleasant as possible; however,
>> I have not seen her for myself, and on a text-based medium it is
>> virtually impossible to form a full impression of her. So, it's only
>> my opinion, based on what evidence can be conveyed on a newsgroup,
>> and shouldn't be taken to mean that you should do what I would do!
>>
>> I hope Kia and you can both continue to take some pleasure in her
>> life and that you feel comfortable about your decision, whatever it
>> may be.
>>
>> Good luck - you're obviously a caring and conscientious pet-owner :-)
>
> Thank you for the response and advice, Rosemary.
>
> I definitely understand the limits of the medium and how at best all I
> can do is paint a vague picture. I think just examining even other
> owner's thinking towards what I can describe is helpful.
Yes, me too. I just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't recommending
you do one or the other, and why. Getting input from other people can be
really helpful in making up your mind; I've done that many times on this
group.
> When to put your pet down is the toughest decision. It's something
> that I definitely want to do as responsibly as possible.
>
> The first rat I had put down, Sierra, it was a much clearer decision
> as she was slowly starving to death. But with Kia, I think it's a
> matter of how much is she enjoying life? I do not believe she is
> suffering which makes it tougher. How do you put value on life?
> That's something that seems really subjective which makes it more
> difficult. Therefore, I think getting the most opinions I can will be
> the most helpful in making the decision.
>
> My gut is that #2 is the case, but I would rather err on the side of
> putting her down too late rather than too early. Rats get such a
> short time on earth that it seems a travesty to cut it short
> unnecessarily.
It'd be so much easier if we could get inside their heads and find out
how they're feeling. With any luck some more people will reply to your
post when they're awake - I think a lot of Europeans and North Americans
are in bed at the moment! Six a.m. here - shudder.
Sometimes the decision is easier to make, but I sympathise with you; this
seems to be one of those times where it's hard to know. I've had a couple
of rats for whom I've made the decision to have them put to sleep several
times - as they always seemed to perk up immediately I made the decision!
Rosemary >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 175
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:21 am
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hank Stalica wrote:
> I can't make up my mind, so any advice would be helpful.
>
> As best I can, I'll try to describe her condition.
>
> At some point in the past two months I think she had a stroke of some
> kind. After that, her condition has steadily deteriorated.
>
> She is at a point right now where she has pretty much lost use of 3/4 of
> her legs. She cannot clean herself. She has a hard time eating. Every
> once in awhile she has what seems to be a quick little seizure. Her
> cagemate pretty much ignores her at this point. She can't climb. She
> can't jump. When she tries to clean herself, she'll invariably fall
> over. She struggles to get back on her feet using her tail and good leg.
>
> I help her eat and I give her a sponge bath every day to help her keep
> clean.
>
>
> That said, she does eat. She doesn't seem to be in any pain. She
> responds when I make noises around her. When I put her on the floor,
> she can walk and even run, sort of - at least until she hits a wall.
>
> In short, from what I can tell, her quality of life seems to be
> horrible, but she doesn't seem to be in obvious pain. She's not yet 2
> years old.
>
> If she was your rat, would would you do?
>
> Thanks for any advice you can give.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --Hank Stalica
>
Hi Hank,
If Kia were mine? I would have had her put to sleep before now. I
believe in quality over quantity, I also believe in letting my furry
family have some dignity as I would like if I become that way :( I
would hate someone doing those things for me after I had been a
perfectly capable human being.
Rats also hide pain as much as possible as it makes them prey for
predators so don't ever be fooled by that. I also believe there is life
after we are freed of our bodies so I know it is not "the end". I am
sorry if what I have written is not what you wanted to read but I
believe in your heart of hearts you know the answer yourself. "If you
love something set it free".. All the best Hank for you and moreso for Kia.
Kind regards Kate >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: May 26, 2006 Posts: 213
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Hank Stalica" <user RemoveThis @example.net> wrote in message
news:CumdnU9xkdk2xMbanZ2dnUVZ_oesnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I can't make up my mind, so any advice would be helpful.
>
> As best I can, I'll try to describe her condition.
>
> At some point in the past two months I think she had a stroke of some
> kind. After that, her condition has steadily deteriorated.
>
> She is at a point right now where she has pretty much lost use of 3/4 of
> her legs. She cannot clean herself. She has a hard time eating. Every
> once in awhile she has what seems to be a quick little seizure. Her
> cagemate pretty much ignores her at this point. She can't climb. She
> can't jump. When she tries to clean herself, she'll invariably fall over.
> She struggles to get back on her feet using her tail and good leg.
>
> I help her eat and I give her a sponge bath every day to help her keep
> clean.
>
>
> That said, she does eat. She doesn't seem to be in any pain. She
> responds when I make noises around her. When I put her on the floor, she
> can walk and even run, sort of - at least until she hits a wall.
>
> In short, from what I can tell, her quality of life seems to be horrible,
> but she doesn't seem to be in obvious pain. She's not yet 2 years old.
>
> If she was your rat, would would you do?
>
> Thanks for any advice you can give.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --Hank Stalica
>
I really feel for you, it's such a hard descision.
I think I would ask your vet for their opinion.
Do you think the seizures are causing her any distress?
I would make that my deciding factor.
Give Kia hugs from me. >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: Jun 19, 2007 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Just a follow up..
I took Kia to the rainbow bridge today.
She went very peacefully, in her sleep. I was able to give her some
chocolate and oatmeal so she left with a full belly of treats she loved.
Thank you all for the right advice. I am convinced I made the right
decision to take her. I am at peace about it and I'm sure she is happy
to be free of her wrecked body.
Looking back, I probably should have taken her sooner. It's just so
tough to make these decisions. In any event, thanks for the advice from
those who responded. Also pre-thanks for the best wishes that are
sure to follow. I know this is a very sympathetic ng, and we all love
our little fuzzbutts.
Best Regards,
--Hank Stalica
Hank Stalica wrote:
> I can't make up my mind, so any advice would be helpful.
>
> As best I can, I'll try to describe her condition.
>
> At some point in the past two months I think she had a stroke of some
> kind. After that, her condition has steadily deteriorated.
>
> She is at a point right now where she has pretty much lost use of 3/4 of
> her legs. She cannot clean herself. She has a hard time eating. Every
> once in awhile she has what seems to be a quick little seizure. Her
> cagemate pretty much ignores her at this point. She can't climb. She
> can't jump. When she tries to clean herself, she'll invariably fall
> over. She struggles to get back on her feet using her tail and good leg.
>
> I help her eat and I give her a sponge bath every day to help her keep
> clean.
>
>
> That said, she does eat. She doesn't seem to be in any pain. She
> responds when I make noises around her. When I put her on the floor,
> she can walk and even run, sort of - at least until she hits a wall.
>
> In short, from what I can tell, her quality of life seems to be
> horrible, but she doesn't seem to be in obvious pain. She's not yet 2
> years old.
>
> If she was your rat, would would you do?
>
> Thanks for any advice you can give.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --Hank Stalica
> >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: Nov 15, 2007 Posts: 12
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Oh, I'm very sorry for your loss. We do love our little fuzzbutts so much.
Best wishes,
Marlo
Hank Stalica wrote:
> Just a follow up..
>
> I took Kia to the rainbow bridge today.
> She went very peacefully, in her sleep. I was able to give her some
> chocolate and oatmeal so she left with a full belly of treats she loved.
>
> Thank you all for the right advice. I am convinced I made the right
> decision to take her. I am at peace about it and I'm sure she is happy
> to be free of her wrecked body.
>
> Looking back, I probably should have taken her sooner. It's just so
> tough to make these decisions. In any event, thanks for the advice from
> those who responded. Also pre-thanks for the best wishes that are sure
> to follow. I know this is a very sympathetic ng, and we all love our
> little fuzzbutts.
>
> Best Regards,
> --Hank Stalica
>
>
> Hank Stalica wrote:
>> I can't make up my mind, so any advice would be helpful.
>>
>> As best I can, I'll try to describe her condition.
>>
>> At some point in the past two months I think she had a stroke of some
>> kind. After that, her condition has steadily deteriorated.
>>
>> She is at a point right now where she has pretty much lost use of 3/4
>> of her legs. She cannot clean herself. She has a hard time eating.
>> Every once in awhile she has what seems to be a quick little seizure.
>> Her cagemate pretty much ignores her at this point. She can't climb.
>> She can't jump. When she tries to clean herself, she'll invariably
>> fall over. She struggles to get back on her feet using her tail and
>> good leg.
>>
>> I help her eat and I give her a sponge bath every day to help her keep
>> clean.
>>
>>
>> That said, she does eat. She doesn't seem to be in any pain. She
>> responds when I make noises around her. When I put her on the floor,
>> she can walk and even run, sort of - at least until she hits a wall.
>>
>> In short, from what I can tell, her quality of life seems to be
>> horrible, but she doesn't seem to be in obvious pain. She's not yet 2
>> years old.
>>
>> If she was your rat, would would you do?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice you can give.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> --Hank Stalica
>> >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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Since: May 02, 2005 Posts: 276
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hank Stalica wrote:
> Looking back, I probably should have taken her sooner.
Don't be hard on yourself about that. I sometimes feel that way, but the
best you can do is try to learn from it for the next time.
> It's just so tough to make these decisions. In any event, thanks for
> the advice from those who responded. Also pre-thanks for the best
> wishes that are sure to follow.
It never gets easier, does it. /sad smile
> I know this is a very sympathetic ng, and we all love our little
> fuzzbutts.
How couldn't anyone that actually knows a rat? :)
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Stay informed about: Is it time to take Kia to the Rainbow Bridge? |
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