Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners

<tracym RemoveThis @nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
news:1kv5hv8pov7h48n9albfoh71drtj6218cq@4ax.com...
> I was just going by what I've learned here in this very ng.

I think you've learned what you want to learn and nothing else!

> Ok, then there's the chance of poisoning.

And yes, been there and done that. And also learned the hard way. I could
have prevented it by simply calling the police or going outside and bringing
my girls in. But that wouldn't have saved my female lynx when the same
people poisoned her! Why?? Because I didn't have a heads up.

And keeping your dog loose in your home when you aren't home and having him
suddenly go through an open window or a glass pane for that matter is a
chance you take by leaving him loose. Point is??

> That said, overall I have tried to follow Robin's lead and
> not be too confrontational about it to Sandra, just for ng peace.
> But there it is.

LOLOLOLOL Ya know..I like Robin alot more than I like you! At least when
Robin and I debate, she posts links and I believe her intelligence that it
will be a useful link and I will go read it over to try to see her side of
the discussion. You however just ramble crud that seems to change as per
your mood. You always have!!

And since when is it that Robin and I discussing anything creates havoc?!
You seem to be doing a pretty damned good job with a number of people here!
Sandra
PS--Other half of answers coming for bandwidth reasons
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

<tracym.RemoveThis@nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
news:bhs5hv435n2ta8rgdkojjkvfqd3c647bcp@4ax.com...
> Sandra, you keep at least one dog on a chain, so you don't
> qualify for "responsible." But then, neither do I.
>
>
> Tracy
>

I would agree that the VAST majority of people who keep their dogs on chains
are highly irresponsible. I would actively support any anti-chaining
legislation were it introduced in my area, even at the possible expense of
the few who can do it and manage to raise happy, healthy dogs (it would be
their job to try to fight any proposed legislation if they chose)

From what Sandra says, several of her dogs have gotten their CGC, and other
titles which is no easy task even if your dog has been raised under the most
ideal circumstances, so I believe her when she says that her dogs are happy
and healthy. However, I am also of the opinion that perhaps they could be
happiER and healthiER were they raised differently. But then as we
established long ago, her dogs are hers, and mine are mine. I may not
personally agree with how she raises them, but I have to respect what she
has accomplished with them.

Unfortunately, I firmly belive that the majority of dogs raised on chains do
not get the treatment or attention that Sandra's dogs must get in order to
accomplish what they have. I think that most chainers do it for their own
convenience, and not for the dog's best interests. The typical dog on a
chain in my area appears to be neither happy nor healthy. They are very
territorial and lacking in socialization, viciously barking and straining at
their chains anytime anyone comes near their territory. There is usually a
noticable lack of common grooming and hygeine. I fully realize that a big
part of the problem is the way these owners neglect these dogs, but I also
think that if these same people did not have the convenient option of being
able to just chain these dogs up, perhaps they would not choose to have
these dogs to neglect. I do also believe that the chain itself does
exacerbate some temperment problems, such as territory aggression.

JMOFWIW,
Robin
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

One more quick reply and I'm gone for a few hours!

"Robin" <robinandtami DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message > >
>
> From what Sandra says, several of her dogs have gotten their CGC, and
other
> titles which is no easy task even if your dog has been raised under the
most
> ideal circumstances, so I believe her when she says that her dogs are
happy
> and healthy.

Thank you kindly Robin!! Nice to see that you understand those titles are
not always easy to come by.

>However, I am also of the opinion that perhaps they could be
> happiER and healthiER were they raised differently.

And I agree with half of that...some of them could be happier. Some
couldn't. I have a wonderful friend that has a 2 1/2 yr old bitch from one
of our bitches. She has her kennels outside and each night when she gets
home the dog comes in the house after she gets her workout. She would like
very much to take the dam of her dog home to live with her. And I would
love to send her there. But...having known that this bitch has already
completely destroyed a house while left loose, and eats through crates,
busts outta kennels regardless of the flooring type, I would never do that
to someone. She lives very happily on a chain here and she has already
proven that home living is just not for her. Healthier though I'm not quite
sure about. My 8 yr old girl is doing wonderful other than her joint
capsules gone. And that seems like it might just be something passed on as
her sire had it as did her gr-grandmother.

>But then as we
> established long ago, her dogs are hers, and mine are mine. I may not
> personally agree with how she raises them, but I have to respect what she
> has accomplished with them.

:-) And I have to respect what you have been doing with Annie. I think
it's wonderful and you have such a great opportunity for her therapy work
since you're already in that field.

> I think that most chainers do it for their own
> convenience,

And cost...it's by far much cheaper than a kennel.

>and not for the dog's best interests. The typical dog on a
> chain in my area appears to be neither happy nor healthy. They are very
> territorial and lacking in socialization, viciously barking and straining
at
> their chains anytime anyone comes near their territory. There is usually
a
> noticable lack of common grooming and hygeine.

What I have a hard time comprehending is how people can not simply look at
their dog and know what it is lacking. I know who's barking without
looking, and can tell from the bark if it's goofing off with another of our
dogs, or someone out front, in the field or something more serious. Course
my guys don't bark other than the above reasons for no reason. Even when I
feed I only let them bark it up for a few minutes then they know it's time
to hush down. Except Bones whom I think may have been debarked cause it's
hoarse and the vet says nothing wrong with him. He can bark all day if he
likes, no one can hear him outside of us! lol But when you look at a dog,
you can see things like flea problems, ear mites, other mites, mats in the
fur etc. I don't understand how people can leave their dogs like that. And
believe me..I don't groom alot but at least once a month I walk around with
nail clippers and an extra hand to do who ever needs.

>I fully realize that a big> part of the problem is the way these owners
neglect these dogs, but I also> think that if these same people did not have
the convenient option of being> able to just chain these dogs up, perhaps
they would not choose to have> these dogs to neglect.

That is true. But also true of a fenced yard or a kennel...and I'm pretty
sure we don't need to go there again cause I think we already had this
discussion and agreed on it.
K...I'm outta here!!! lol
Sandra
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

"Sandra" <smalway.RemoveThis@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:6GFQa.21856$Ab1.43841@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> :-) And I have to respect what you have been doing with Annie. I think
> it's wonderful and you have such a great opportunity for her therapy work
> since you're already in that field.
>

Well thank you for saying that. It's been a great learning experience for
me. As I've said before, Annie was my first large dog, and my first
experience with really trying to train a dog. I think we've both done well,
all things considered. While I'm not looking forward to the passing of my
chihuahua, I am very much looking forward to the freedom that will allow me
to get another dog.

I'm already trying to figure out what breeds will respond best to training,
and also fit in with my home life and make a good companion for Annie.
Annie's biggest hindrance to being a really good therapy dog is her shar pei
independence streak. She follows commands well, is extremely gentle, and
will allow people to pet her and such, but does not seem to enjoy it as much
as I would hope. I'm looking for a breed that is people friendly,
intelligent, enjoys working and training, and one that will enjoy
roughhousing with Annie. I also have a personal preference for the
appearance and size of many of the mastiff breeds (LOVE the English and
Neapolitan), but I realize that they don't fit all of the other criteria I
am looking for. I'm really at a loss as to what breed to get, but God
willing, I'm hoping to have a few years to figure it out. Unfortunately the
mammary tumors seem to be growing more rapidly, and I've pretty much decided
not to put her through another surgery to remove them when the results have
been so poor the last three times.

Robin
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:26:23 -0400, "Sandra" <smalway DeleteThis @sprint.ca>
wrote:

>
><tracym DeleteThis @nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
>news:1kv5hv8pov7h48n9albfoh71drtj6218cq@4ax.com...
>> I was just going by what I've learned here in this very ng.
>
>I think you've learned what you want to learn and nothing else!
>
>> Ok, then there's the chance of poisoning.
>
>And yes, been there and done that. And also learned the hard way. I could
>have prevented it by simply calling the police or going outside and bringing
>my girls in. But that wouldn't have saved my female lynx when the same
>people poisoned her! Why?? Because I didn't have a heads up.
>
>And keeping your dog loose in your home when you aren't home and having him
>suddenly go through an open window or a glass pane for that matter is a
>chance you take by leaving him loose. Point is??

Straw man!

That one seems rather off the wall.....

Hmm...they might also jump in the air and fall over on their backs
thus injuring themselves, too.

>
>> That said, overall I have tried to follow Robin's lead and
>> not be too confrontational about it to Sandra, just for ng peace.
>> But there it is.
>
>LOLOLOLOL Ya know..I like Robin alot more than I like you! At least when
>Robin and I debate, she posts links and I believe her intelligence that it
>will be a useful link and I will go read it over to try to see her side of
>the discussion.

Actually, link coming up.

>You however just ramble crud that seems to change as per
>your mood. You always have!!

OOohh, this is hard. Ugh. Do I merely now explain what it is I've
done today, or do I also include my opinion of this statement,
which could detract from it?

Hmm..have to choose one point to make, over another. You've already
had this discussion with Robin anyway, and it seems clear that nothing
will change what you do anyway.


Ok.....


>
>And since when is it that Robin and I discussing anything creates havoc?!
>You seem to be doing a pretty damned good job with a number of people here!
>Sandra

I've been warned that using logic on such an emotional topic as our
pet dogs may not meet with a lot of success. :)


As for, er, Jaydog, well she could not reason it through due to too
much emotion. The person who bangs her head on hard surfaces first
loses....and then, when it gets to the poing that it looks like all
the person want is to get a rise out of you, you stop.

Tracy
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

<tracym.RemoveThis@nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
> That one seems rather off the wall.....

Wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't heard of it happening.

>they might also jump in the air and fall over on their backs
> thus injuring themselves, too.

Heard of that too hence the reason why someone asks about springpoles people
like Russ and I and other tell them to keep the dogs 4 feet on the ground!

> Actually, link coming up.

Didn't see any link!!
Sandra
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

whats with all the retards in here arguen driven me nuts. get laid
folks relax life is good.



On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:59:28 -0700, tracym DeleteThis @nospampipeline.com wrote:

>OK, I've been thinking about the issue, and have some further
>thoughts:
>
>You who say that leaving a pitbull alone with another dog
>(especially another dog that is not a pitbull), is irresponsible,
>no matter what the circumstances, yet who own more than
>one:
>
>Do you separate your dogs every time you shower or go to the restroom?
>Do you separate them when you dash out to the mailbox?
>Do you separate them every time you turn your attention away even for
>a minute?
>
>Do you remove all toys and food before dashing off to said restroom
>or shower? NO?
>
>I have heard the stories of how quickly a pitbull can kill another
>dog. Do you really believe that having a breaking stick will
>guarantee that you can be there soon enough to prevent a death?
>
>I don't think there's any guarantee at all of that. Hence, given that
>leaving a pitbull outside on a chain is irresponsible to the dog and
>the breed, as is leaving one in a kennel or shed, not properly
>socialized with the family, anyone who owns a pitbull *and* any
>other kind of breed dog, is *irresponsible*.
>
>Tracy
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:32:29 GMT, jacks <Jack.TakeThisOut@home.com> wrote:

>whats with all the retards in here arguen driven me nuts. get laid
>folks relax life is good.

Jacks,

It's "Reductio Ad Absurdum", although I used things that have actually
been said on this very ng, and put them together. If you put all the
cautions together, this is what you get. This part was actually a
continuation.


>
>
>
>On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:59:28 -0700, tracym.TakeThisOut@nospampipeline.com wrote:
>
>>OK, I've been thinking about the issue, and have some further
>>thoughts:
>>
>>You who say that leaving a pitbull alone with another dog
>>(especially another dog that is not a pitbull), is irresponsible,
>>no matter what the circumstances, yet who own more than
>>one:
>>
>>Do you separate your dogs every time you shower or go to the restroom?
>>Do you separate them when you dash out to the mailbox?
>>Do you separate them every time you turn your attention away even for
>>a minute?
>>
>>Do you remove all toys and food before dashing off to said restroom
>>or shower? NO?
>>
>>I have heard the stories of how quickly a pitbull can kill another
>>dog. Do you really believe that having a breaking stick will
>>guarantee that you can be there soon enough to prevent a death?
>>
>>I don't think there's any guarantee at all of that. Hence, given that
>>leaving a pitbull outside on a chain is irresponsible to the dog and
>>the breed, as is leaving one in a kennel or shed, not properly
>>socialized with the family, anyone who owns a pitbull *and* any
>>other kind of breed dog, is *irresponsible*.
>>
>>Tracy
>>
>>
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

logic??? what logic????
<tracym.DeleteThis@nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
news:3367hv4kkd39hh9o2etqpfni7ib8ufhq4l@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:26:23 -0400, "Sandra" <smalway.DeleteThis@sprint.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >
> ><tracym.DeleteThis@nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
> >news:1kv5hv8pov7h48n9albfoh71drtj6218cq@4ax.com...
> >> I was just going by what I've learned here in this very ng.
> >
> >I think you've learned what you want to learn and nothing else!
> >
> >> Ok, then there's the chance of poisoning.
> >
> >And yes, been there and done that. And also learned the hard way. I
could
> >have prevented it by simply calling the police or going outside and
bringing
> >my girls in. But that wouldn't have saved my female lynx when the same
> >people poisoned her! Why?? Because I didn't have a heads up.
> >
> >And keeping your dog loose in your home when you aren't home and having
him
> >suddenly go through an open window or a glass pane for that matter is a
> >chance you take by leaving him loose. Point is??
>
> Straw man!
>
> That one seems rather off the wall.....
>
> Hmm...they might also jump in the air and fall over on their backs
> thus injuring themselves, too.
>
> >
> >> That said, overall I have tried to follow Robin's lead and
> >> not be too confrontational about it to Sandra, just for ng peace.
> >> But there it is.
> >
> >LOLOLOLOL Ya know..I like Robin alot more than I like you! At least
when
> >Robin and I debate, she posts links and I believe her intelligence that
it
> >will be a useful link and I will go read it over to try to see her side
of
> >the discussion.
>
> Actually, link coming up.
>
> >You however just ramble crud that seems to change as per
> >your mood. You always have!!
>
> OOohh, this is hard. Ugh. Do I merely now explain what it is I've
> done today, or do I also include my opinion of this statement,
> which could detract from it?
>
> Hmm..have to choose one point to make, over another. You've already
> had this discussion with Robin anyway, and it seems clear that nothing
> will change what you do anyway.
>
>
> Ok.....
>
>
> >
> >And since when is it that Robin and I discussing anything creates havoc?!
> >You seem to be doing a pretty damned good job with a number of people
here!
> >Sandra
>
> I've been warned that using logic on such an emotional topic as our
> pet dogs may not meet with a lot of success. :)
>
>
> As for, er, Jaydog, well she could not reason it through due to too
> much emotion. The person who bangs her head on hard surfaces first
> loses....and then, when it gets to the poing that it looks like all
> the person want is to get a rise out of you, you stop.
>
> Tracy
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

Jacks this is a open forum and from the title of group we would think that
means the topics of care and handling of the AMERICAN Pitbull Terrier would
be relevant...
"jacks" <Jack.RemoveThis@home.com> wrote in message
news:lob7hv4tpcr6hl405jp11vi3tgg1q759p6@4ax.com...
> whats with all the retards in here arguen driven me nuts. get laid
> folks relax life is good.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:59:28 -0700, tracym.RemoveThis@nospampipeline.com wrote:
>
> >OK, I've been thinking about the issue, and have some further
> >thoughts:
> >
> >You who say that leaving a pitbull alone with another dog
> >(especially another dog that is not a pitbull), is irresponsible,
> >no matter what the circumstances, yet who own more than
> >one:
> >
> >Do you separate your dogs every time you shower or go to the restroom?
> >Do you separate them when you dash out to the mailbox?
> >Do you separate them every time you turn your attention away even for
> >a minute?
> >
> >Do you remove all toys and food before dashing off to said restroom
> >or shower? NO?
> >
> >I have heard the stories of how quickly a pitbull can kill another
> >dog. Do you really believe that having a breaking stick will
> >guarantee that you can be there soon enough to prevent a death?
> >
> >I don't think there's any guarantee at all of that. Hence, given that
> >leaving a pitbull outside on a chain is irresponsible to the dog and
> >the breed, as is leaving one in a kennel or shed, not properly
> >socialized with the family, anyone who owns a pitbull *and* any
> >other kind of breed dog, is *irresponsible*.
> >
> >Tracy
> >
> >
> >
>
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

<tracym.DeleteThis@nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
> As for, er, Jaydog, well she could not reason it through due to too
> much emotion. The person who bangs her head on hard surfaces first
> loses....and then, when it gets to the poing that it looks like all
> the person want is to get a rise out of you, you stop.

More like the person who is so thick that they only frustrate people trying
to reason with them, is a ding dong.

Are you flippin' obsessed with me or what? You say I'm killfiled but you
haven't stopped, you're just being passive aggressive with your trash talk.
And emailing the rescue, saying I'm representing them
unprofessionally...where exactly did I say I am here representing Barlee's,
not representing myself?

FROOT LOOP.

J
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

> <tracym DeleteThis @nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
> > That one seems rather off the wall.....
>
> Wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't heard of it happening.

Sandra, Tracy isn't interested in facts, she likes her own little idea of
what Pit Bulls are.

> >they might also jump in the air and fall over on their backs
> > thus injuring themselves, too.

And Tracy might actually start making sense sometime too, but that doesn't
mean it's very likely.

J
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners 

Actually she was told that using emotional and illogic on such a
straightforward topic such as breed traits was foolish. Tracy has made her
limited comprehension ability quite clear.

J

"jokerpit" <tohellnback.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YW6dnTTHqqB-komiXTWJig@comcast.com...
> logic??? what logic????

> <tracym.DeleteThis@nospampipeline.com> wrote in message
> news:3367hv4kkd39hh9o2etqpfni7ib8ufhq4l@4ax.com...
> > I've been warned that using logic on such an emotional topic as our
> > pet dogs may not meet with a lot of success. :)
> >
> > Tracy
 >> Stay informed about: Further thoughts on irresponsible pit bull owners