David wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping there is someone out there who can help me with this problem.
> I bought two handraised tiels in Feb '04, a normal gray male and a pearl
> female as pets and they cohabited in the same cage for over a year
> without any problems. Then back in april or may this year the male
> started being nasty to the female for no apparent reason. I assumed
> hormones may be the problem as the female started gettting clucky and
> the would get up to mischief when we weren't looking. It got to the
> point where I had to buy another cage because I couldn't leave them in
> the same cage.
>
> Finally in may she started laying eggs in the cage on her own and ended
> up with 4. I checked each and found they were clear but left them in for
> about 4 weeks total.
>
> I should also say that the male wanted nothing to do with the eggs and I
> had fun getting her to eat because she wouldn't eat in her cage. I'd let
> the male out, swap her into his cage and close the door so she could eat
> without being chased. This went on until I took the eggs out and they
> settled down a bit.
>
> Two weeks later she started laying more eggs but they hadn't been
> together but she would get clucky and make that little chirp like she
> wanted to mate. Again 4 eggs and all clear again, still in separate
> cages but this time the male has been good and sitting on the eggs in
> shifts when I let the female out to eat.
>
> It's now been about 5 weeks since she started laying and I've slowly
> been removing the eggs, there are 2 left.
>
> She's started making the clucky noises again and I'm worried she's about
> to start laying again.
>
> I know laying too many eggs isn't healthy for them so what can I do ?
>
> Sleep pattern is uncovered at 7am most mornings, sometimes later.
> Lights off at 8.30pm and covered by 9.30.
> They both eat seed with vitamin suppliment and are given spinach several
> times a week and also bread and both have access to calcium/iodine bells.
>
> Thanks in advance
> David
> in Australia
Hi, David!
I've had a very similar problem, except that for the most part, my
male and female 'tiels are pretty "lovey dovey" most of the time since
they discovered ... hormones!
For I don't think it's actually "sexual play" (including their ver-
sion of "intercourse" that they are engaging in! She has all along
over many years been far too "standoffish" -- deeply bonded to her
"Big Mama Bird", the Bringer of All Treats and Neck Rubs and Cuddling!
"Kelly" can't hold a candle to that!
These two were initially for several years in separate cages, as
they clearly both preferred! Both are lutinos, and for years, too, I
thought both were females, ROTFOL!
However, a couple of years ago, out experienced avian vet took one
look and announced "she" was a "he" (that is, the older of the two)!
I had, BTW, already known that the other was a "she" 'cause at times,
she did lay a single egg, off and on! (As a kid, I'd had female bud-
gies that had done that, too!)
Now, somewhere along the line, I wasn't able to be home as much,
and I started trying to put the two 'tiels into the same cage for
short periods of time. (That was back when I thought both were fe-
males!) Well, lo and behold, they got accustomed to being together,
and decided that they by far preferred it! But still, for several
years, no egg problem!
Then, all of a sudden last spring, she started laying, and laying
,,, and laying! As well as making all the special sounds indicative
of being in the mood to have a family, they both started working to-
gether to "build a nest" by chomping endlessly on their newspaper
covering the bottom of the cage! (They had done that before, but
never before so determinedly, for hours and hours on end!)
If you can believe it, though I did not initially give them any-
thing resembling a "nesting box" when she first started laying ...
the bright male actually figured out eventually, by dint of incredi-
ble effort, how to "build a tent" to use as a nesting box! (Actually,
I'm to blame for giving him the idea -- initially, I thought he was
just "playing", and draped a sheet of newspaper over a low perch on
one side, creating a shelter! When they proceeded to try to "start
a family" inside it, I knocked it down, but ... he then poured all
his energy into creating one ALL BY HIMSELF! Never believe that
'tiels are not intelligent! This oldster (probably 13 years old now)
sure is!)
Over the past year, they tried a couple of times to "start a family"
with the clutches that she proceeded to lay! Each time, she laid a
fair number of eggs, and roosted on them all night, but ... left every
morning! Meanwhile, he didn't pick up on the fact that he, too, should
take a shift at setting!
Finally, when neither clutch produced babies ... she began laying
the biggest one yet! Altogether, it ammounted to some 11 eggs ... or
perhaps after 8 or so, it became a fourth clutch (as I've read eight
eggs is usually the limit!) However, this time, though he was still
not pitching in with brooding any of the first eight or nine eggs (so
that she gave up on them eventually, as she had before) ... when she
laid the ninth or tenth, he was in their "nesting box", watching how
she produced the egg, then settled herself right on top of it!
Aha! Suddenly, he realized that HE TOO WAS RESPONSIBLE TO TAKE
SHIFTS BROODING! And guess what? He became very territorial and
possessive, even with her, thereafter, and with the last 2-3 eggs of
that clutch (which remained "duds" again, despite his attention), HE
DID NEARLY ALL THE BROODING! ROTFLOL! Meanwhile, his mate just found
that peachy, and left the cage to enjoy herself (when I was there to
let her out under supervision, of course)!
That was in the winter, and after the third (or fourth) try
(whichever it was) ... I consulted the avian vet, and separated them
for several months, 'cause having four full clutches might have been
too hard on her (recommended against generally for all hens)!
Eventually, by this spring, I put them back together in their new,
roomy cage (as both were eager to be)! Meanwhile, I tried different
forms of liner, as suggested by the vet. For a while, using white
paper towel discoouraged them from considering "nestbuilding activi-
ty", probably (I figure) 'cause the bottom of the cage is white and
they couldn't see it!
Once they figured that one out and tried nesting behaviour (chomp-
ing on the paper towelling) again ... I tried wax paper! That worked
for a while, too! And they actually never did see wax paper as fit
for nesting material, but ... nonetheless, she started laying again!
So I tried NOTHING on the bottom! (The vet had suggested having a
layer of water as the ultimate "turnoff", but that would be so messy
to deal with, and rather dirty and unsanitary, IMO, so I refrained
from adding the water!) Again, it worked a short while, but not for-
ever!
To cut a Very Long Tale short (at long last): I was checking my
bookmarks, and saw the following website:
<http://www.aviannetwork.com/articles/eggs.htm>
The article, "Too Many Eggs" by Dawn Hanlon, is well worth reading!
The vet HAD recommended MORE SLEEP, but I realized that I hadn't
carried through well on that directive! I have a special problem:
My hen has been quite frightened of the dark (as apparently many
'tiels are quite naturally) since she was quite young. In her
early years, she had "thrashed" and injured herself many times if
left in the dark. Eventually, I'd bought a couple of those timers
that turn lights off and on, plus I hooked up one of those lights
that comes on if the electricity goes off -- all to do my best to
prevent more injuries (she was susceptible to bleeding from break-
age of blood quill wing feathers for several years)!
I'm still leaving the light on in the Bird Sitting Room (where
they and our two little green-cheeked conures have cages). However,
now I'm covering their white flannel blanket with a couple of dark-
er wool clothes, leaving just a small opening to let light in. And
of course I'm putting them to bed earlier!
So far, this seems to be working, but it's early days yet! Mean-
while, according to my vet, another deterrent can actually be giving
them less variety of food (simpler fare). She also gave me calcium
supplement to be given every day in their food in small doses, and
since our birds don't eat pellets, we've had it recommended to give
them a high quality multivitamin regularly. Otherwise, though, our
vet recommended less variety of seed (I use just the budgie seed)
and NO "treats" (like millet sprays, "Avicake" with its honey base,
special seed bars, and so on).
I hadn't realized that one should avoid spraying (showering)
them, as the article points out, with water, something I all-
too-rarely remember to do anyway (mine rarely like to take
baths, though the two conures take one nearly every day!)
Apparently, when they are brooding in the wild, it's impor-
tant for them to bathe often, as it seems to contribute to a
safe hatching!
One other thing that I read is that it's actually better,
if you really DO want to breed, to put together one EXPERIENCED
breeder with an inexperienced one! My vet's told me the hen
would make an excellent breeder! She has a rare trait for
lutinos -- no bald spot on her head -- and is otherwise very,
very healthy now (no more blood quill feather problems for
years)!
However, she's my "Prima Donna" -- very demanding of her "Big
Mama Birds" attention being focussed JUST ON HER! LOL! Since she
is so imprinted on ME, I'm not at all sure that she'd be willing
to cozy up to ANY male 'tiel, LOL! She ain't called "Baby Bird"
for nuthin' -- she's the female 'tiel version of "Peter Pan" --
don' never wanna grow up! ;-)
I do have a high school student who expressed interest in
having one of the babies, if there ever were any! Now that I've
been a bird owner for many years, having expanded from the budgies
I've had over the years to 'tiels, and now our little parrots ...
my partner and I have become cognizant of the "Parrot-Go-Round":
how many, many birds prove too challenging for their owners, and
wind up without homes, or shuttled from one to the next! My male
was like that -- I am his third owner, and only "accidentally"
wound up with him after I'd agreed to "birdsit" him for a few mos.!
And I had an untamed budgie for many years who died this past year
-- she'd been passed through countless owners! Our male 'tiel is
also an adoption -- the couple who'd gotten him as a baby a year
or so later had their first child, and found that he became so
jealous (losing being their sole focus) that he'd become an invet-
erate "biter"! It took us a lotta determination and time to help
him feel sufficiently secure that his biting behaviour was nearly
extinguished! (Still gives a painful bite now and then, but now
very rarely!)
I'm adding this on 'cause once one DOES breed, I think you have
to be concerned about the homes that the birds go to! I bought my
hen 'tiel at a local pet store, and "lucked out" (as the bird did
with getting me as her owner)! But I've now heard and read horror
stories, including commonly cases where birds in pet shops have con-
tracted serious illnesses due to improper care, as well as cases
where owners have mistreated their first parrots out of ignorance,
tales akin to the worst that Dickens dished out to his protagonists!
Therefore, if one DOES wind up with babies ... please, please,
please disperse them to new owners and homes that you check out
yourselves, I would urge! You can make some money by selling them
to recoup what you put into their initial care, but despite living
on a relatively low income myself, I would rather give them away
(as to my student, who has had experience with birds, is reliable,
and may even study to become a vet!) ... or probably find myself
keeping them!
Hope some of these tips may help you out! :-)
"Big Mama Bird"
Canada
P. S. Yeah, we DO have avian vets here in Canada -- we're
fortunate to have one of the most knowledgeable, ex-
perienced, and caring on the N. American subcontinent,
I would hazard to assert!
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