sad, pathetic way to live

Jonathan Ball <jonball DeleteThis @whitehouse.not> wrote in message news:<hdBcc.17428$Dv2.7350@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> Karen Winter is quite clearly nuts. That jumps out at
> the reader from the weird mystery/intrigue potboiler
> posts of recent days. It isn't just the weird
> obsessiveness of them, but also the evident relish the
> two weird hags take in spinning their bad mystery novel
> details.
>
> Four years ago, Karen still managed to keep up the
> facade of rationality. Today, the shabby Potemkin
> village of her carefully cultivated but entire bogus
> persona lies in splinters.
>
> It's been fun.





It's obvious that you are expressing an obscession toward Karen Winter Mr. Ball.

You need mental health care ASAP.


..
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

degeneRat wrote:

> Yes, jonnie -- your life is.

He was speaking of your life -- one filled with deceit with your son, wishing
bad things for your grandson, and pretending to be part of a threatening conspiracy.

> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
>> Karen Winter is quite clearly nuts.
>
> *smile* Nervous, jonnie?

Why should anyone be nervous over your faux conspiracy?

> As I say, leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.

Not just paranoid delusions, but MPD. Call one of those numbers. Fast.

> Confine your attacks and lies to usenet, and I'll
> respect your right of free speech completely, as
> I always have done, even with the most vicious and
> foul-mouthed of trolls. Take it to real life, and
> those rules no longer apply.

What attacks and lies? How is it an attack or lie to quote your very words? That
reflects on YOUR character, not on anyone else's.
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

The madwoman of Santa Fe wrote:

>
>
> Yes, jonnie -- my life is.

I know. That's why I wrote it.

>
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
>> Karen Winter is quite clearly nuts.
>
>
> *smile* Nervous, jonnie?

Not in the least.

>
> As I say, leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.

You'll leave me alone.

> Confine your attacks and lies to usenet,

I haven't lied. Your posts, verbatim, will tell your
son the full story. I don't need to add a word. I
probably WILL add a smirk or two.

> and I'll
> respect your right of free speech completely,

You will respect my free speech rights unconditionally.

Are you clear on that?
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

"Rat & Swan" <labrat.TakeThisOut@cybermesa.com> wrote in message
news:c4up4i$96a$1@reader2.nmix.net...
>
>
> Yes, jonnie -- your life is.
>
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
> > Karen Winter is quite clearly nuts.
>
> *smile* Nervous, jonnie?
>
> As I say, leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.
> Confine your attacks and lies to usenet, and I'll
> respect your right of free speech completely, as
> I always have done, even with the most vicious and
> foul-mouthed of trolls. Take it to real life, and
> those rules no longer apply.
>
> Rat

Karen, you are too polite with these couple of cowardly stalking bastards.
Given the present circumstances, they will *never* leave you alone.

Tell them both to "FUCK OFF" and mind their own business - end of abuse.
Obviously they are trying to make your life difficult and you are helping
them. Useless object is plays his cards close, but ~~jonnie~~ is wide open.
"Play Dirty" Karen, it's the only way.

You want ~~jonnie's~~ home address, phone number, cell number? All you have
to do is e-mail me. I have a block on my home addy, but it will be open for
the next 12 hrs. It's up to you. camcompany.TakeThisOut@btinternet.com Unsolicited
e-mail abuse it will be reported your ISP, 'EarthLink' do action e-mail
abuse. So don't even try it stumpy.

Ray.
>
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

Come on, Dutch -- you can't seriously claim that what jonnie has
said he would try to do is ethical.


> She has volunteered facts
> about herself on a public forum, others are free to express opinions about
> those statements.

Indeed. I've not suggested otherwise. What others are not ethically
free to do is go to others who are not here and take what is intended
for discussion HERE to others who are not here and who will be
injured by such an action.

> Karen and John are both voluntary participants in a
> newsgroup, he is not approaching her physically, nor has he threatened to do
> so. Her first act on her own behalf if she does not like what he says would
> be to killfile him, she has not done so.

He drops useful hints about his plans, so I know what to do to counter it.

> He has indicated that he plans to
> contact someone, not her, and repeat things she has said publicly, not even
> in an email. That is not illegal.

But it is unethical.

> She otoh has made veiled threats that
> something will happen to him if he does it. That is bordering on illegal
> behavior.

Not even close. It's entirely up to jonnie -- I won't act if he
doesn't. He is the one harassing and threatening me.
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

ipse dixit wrote:

<snip>
> save your grandson from the paedophiles you want to
> introduce him to.

You moron, I don't want to introduce him to any pedophiles.
I don't even know any pedophiles -- I met a few, some
20 years ago in LA, but I don't know where they are now,
or even what their real names were.

They were interested in teens, anyway, not kids.

<snip>
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

Jonathan Ball wrote:

<snip>

> REQUESTING. Karen has requested that they do something, something
> undoubtedly illegal.

I've requested they take info to the authorities if jonnie does
something which makes me incapable of contacting them. It's all
in jonnie's hands. I'm not a "first-strike" kind of person

<snip>
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

You know, I find it all but incredible (except than it's jonnie
who is involved) that vigilante fascists should want to harass me
in the real world for opinions. I knew jonnie had fascistic
tendencies, but truly, I half-believed his bullshit that he
believed in freedom of speech.

I have DONE absolutely nothing except try to make peace with
my family. Yet, jonnie is harassing and threatening me, trying
to harass and threaten my family, for no more than opinions
he dislikes. He can show no evidence I have EVER done any of
the things he claims I might; he's now descended into a paranoid
Harrison-esque delusion that he has a right to harass me on
the basis of potential possibilities, strictly on the basis of
my absolute constitutional right of free speech here.

He is obviously a fascist, and a delusional one at that.

This is the kind of thing Americans should all fear, when a little
tin-pot vigilante feels he can destroy other people's lives
because he disagrees with theoretical ideas discussed on usenet.
jonnie is a menace to every person in America, and his ideas are
truly frightening. jonnie once believed that people have a right
to free speech, or so he claims; he once believed that only
actions, not thoughts, were harmful, or so he said. Now, he
evidently believes in a 1984-style concept of "thoughtcrime" which
is utterly antithetical to all the freedoms America stands for.

Are we all going to be afraid to speak our thoughts?
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

degeneRat wrote:
> ipse dixit wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> save your grandson from the paedophiles you want to
>> introduce him to.
>
> You moron, I don't want to introduce him to any pedophiles.

You said you'd have no reservation introducing your son to them; it's fair to
assume that you'd do the same to your grandson.

> I don't even know any pedophiles -- I met a few, some
> 20 years ago in LA, but I don't know where they are now,
> or even what their real names were.

This is horrible.
1. You met some pedophiles.
2. They made a good enough impression that said you'd not hesitate to
introduce your son to them.
3. You didn't even know their names.

What the hell kind of introduction would that be, Karen?

BTW, what about your child-molesting friend "Len"? Was that his real name?

> They were interested in teens, anyway, not kids.

Oh, well thank GOODNESS they were picky. I don't believe they'd reject a kid if
you were gullible and STUPID enough to bring one around them, you pervert.
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

usual suspect wrote:

<snip>

>>> save your grandson from the paedophiles you want to
>>> introduce him to.

>> You moron, I don't want to introduce him to any pedophiles.

> You said you'd have no reservation introducing your son to them; it's

No, I said I would not hesitate if they were responsible. That
means they would not engage in coercion.

> fair to assume that you'd do the same to your grandson.

No, because he is under the authority of his parents, not mine.
I wouldn't introduce him to anyone they did not approve.

>> I don't even know any pedophiles -- I met a few, some
>> 20 years ago in LA, but I don't know where they are now,
>> or even what their real names were.

> This is horrible.
> 1. You met some pedophiles.

At a public meeting.

> 2. They made a good enough impression that said you'd not hesitate to
> introduce your son to them.

Correct. They were responsible, non-coercive people.

> 3. You didn't even know their names.

I knew the names they gave me (first only). People tend to
be cautious when they know fascists like jonnie and you
are likely to try to get them into trouble for expressing
an opinion in a public meeting.

> What the hell kind of introduction would that be, Karen?

> BTW, what about your child-molesting friend "Len"? Was that his real name?

No. Do you think I would give YOU anyone's real name?

>> They were interested in teens, anyway, not kids.

> Oh, well thank GOODNESS they were picky. I don't believe they'd reject a
> kid if you were gullible and STUPID enough to bring one around them, you
> pervert.

I do. You obviously know nothing about the subject. If a person
is interested in a certain age group, he is not interested in other
age groups. Ephebophiles are interested in teens; they would not
find pre-pubescent boys any more attractive than you (presumably)
would.
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

Rat & Swan wrote:
>
>
> ipse dixit wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> save your grandson from the paedophiles you want to
>> introduce him to.
>
>
> You moron, I don't want to introduce him to any pedophiles.
> I don't even know any pedophiles -- I met a few, some
> 20 years ago in LA, but I don't know where they are now,
> or even what their real names were.
>
> They were interested in teens, anyway, not kids.

All irrelevant. You WOULD introduce your grandson to
pedophiles, or more to the point, introduce the
pedophiles to your grandson. Your son has a right to
know that.
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

degeneRat wrote:

> I've requested they take info to the authorities if jonnie does
> something which makes me incapable of contacting them.

That's inconsistent with your previous posts:
Those we have spoken to recently have Googled your posts and are...not
happy. They now know where to find Ball if necessary.

And:
Anarchists do prefer to rely on private parties rather than
government, you know.

That certainly is inconsistent with notifying the authorities. So is this:
...I have no doubt that once his whereabouts in the real world are well
known, someone will do something to him.

Everything in that implies vigilantism -- a point you've already conceded.

> It's all
> in jonnie's hands. I'm not a "first-strike" kind of person

You're threatening him for relaying things you've written in public newsgroups.
Why are you hiding your own words from your son, Karen?
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live 

Rat & Swan wrote:

>
> You know, I find it all but incredible (except than it's jonnie
> who is involved) that vigilante fascists should want to harass me
> in the real world for opinions.

"vigilante fascists". I *love* that. It confirms
everything I've said about you.


> I have DONE absolutely nothing except try to make peace with
> my family.

No, you haven't tried to make peace. You're trying to
make nice, under false pretenses. You are trying to
deceive your son, in order to gain access to your
grandson. This is not about any familial love for any
of them. We all know it. YOU know it, too.

> Yet, jonnie is harassing and threatening me,

Neither.

> trying to harass and threaten my family,

No, I am trying to help your son, which would enable
him to help his son.

> for no more than opinions he dislikes.

No, because you represent a real menace to your grandson.


It isn't a question of you being "attacked" for your
"thoughts", if "thought can even be applied to your
delusional ravings. It is a question of alerting
someone to real danger aimed at his child.
 >> Stay informed about: sad, pathetic way to live