Old dog and puppy

External Since: Aug 02, 2004 Posts: 3

Hi Guys,
I need some advice on doggie behaviors and training. I have a 17 yr old
yorkie who was rescued. She came to me dog aggressive and I've been
able to keep her separate from other dogs for the last 8 yrs. She
doesn't seem to mind puppies so much, she just ignores them for the most
part and gets out of their way. She's 15lbs, so she's big for her
breed.

Due to my old girl getting up there in years and really spends most of
her time sleeping, I purchased a male yorkie puppy from a breeder that
I researched for some time with all of the health clearances etc. The
pup is 15 weeks old and has been here for 12 days. My old girl has been
tolerant of him, just looking at the pup and sniffing around him. The
puppy has not been overly obnoxious and respects her space. I never
leave them together unsupervised. Most of the time, the puppy is
confined to a smaller area of the house with pads, bed, toys and me to
entertain him. I'm home all day so neither of the dogs are left alone.

Yesterday, my older dog saw the puppy sniffing her pig ear and growled
slightly which the puppy backed away immediately. I put the puppy
behind the x-pen and my girl took her pig ear and placed it on her side
of the pen at the edge and sat there. Every time the puppy approached,
my girl snarled and snatched the pig ear up. She proceeded to do this
4x. I was amazed at this bit of interaction and didn't correct the girl
till the 4th time which she backed off and took a nap. I'm guessing she
was schooling the pup on what is hers and to keep his paws off.

This is only the second time in 8yrs that I've seen her growl and get
aggressive. (I knew her history and just avoided any confrontations
before this).

She doesn't even chew the pig ear, just buries it around the house with
other treasures. She's very food oriented but never food aggressive. I
can take anything out of her mouth without problem. She doesn't
understand that the puppy has chewies meant for him and not everything
in the house belongs to her. She tries to get into his food bowl at
every opportunity, but she can't reach it. My girl is not motivated by
anything but food, she cares less about toys.

How do I proceed? Do I keep introducing them to each other in other
situations or just keep them separate? I make sure to give my girl
priority when it comes to treats etc. How do you teach an old dog to
share? Maybe you don't. Thanks so much for your consideration.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)

External Since: Jul 01, 2003 Posts: 3494

HOWEDY lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy
soronson aka joey finnochiario aka jackass
morison, you anonymHOWES lying dog
abusing punk thug coward and mental case,

"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10004 RemoveThis @privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:tiqsg0paj3tq6qu89ttqpnr48o0r748ikk@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:08:44 -0400, silkypup RemoveThis @webtv.net (Lori)
wrote:
>
> > I need some advice on doggie behaviors
> > and training. I have a 17 yr old yorkie who
> > was rescued. She came to me dog aggressive
> []

Aggression is FEAR. You can CURE her FEARS
NEARLY INSTANTLY if you know HOWE.

Here's lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy soronson
beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak IT to save ITS life:

But FIRST, a little good KOEHLER trainin:

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.

Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.

Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.

Be consistent in your handling.

To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.

In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.

The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorrison RemoveThis @thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
<message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar716 RemoveThis @aol.com
> (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
> huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
> >>on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
> >>Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
> >>otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
> >a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
> >methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
> that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
> *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
> far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
> >whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
> >training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> >in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
> many other places as well) *claim* that they use
> nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
> ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
> >you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
> >babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
> Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
> in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
> that even R has its limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
> the sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the
> > Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
> than enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
> >proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
> >to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
> it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
> especially since the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
> training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
> need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again
> shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
> Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
> >from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
> >nothing for what I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good
> enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
> many of the rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
> because you apparently know so damn little about
> Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
> it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
> keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
> only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
> SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
> you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
> that. It's like you don't even care how stupid
> people think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
> That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
> if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
> remove the detonator to reply via e-mail

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorrison RemoveThis @thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
<message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_brock RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> >tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
> (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
> situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
> incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> >enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> >5 minutes of his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
> careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
> it over with quickly than it is to do it
> incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
> invites the need for even more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
> >for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
> >behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
> looked at in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> every individual dog and situation, we feel
> obligated to emphasize from the outset that
> discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for
> all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical
> and verbal discipline can be an effective technique.
> The best policy if you experience any of the above
> problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
> veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
> situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training
> technique, it should be the proper technique. We
> feel we have developed several methods that depend
> less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
> for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
> map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
> because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
> what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
> those serious, special occasions when other methods
> have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical
> discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
> only on those rare occasions when an already
> reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
> evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
> adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
> house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
> housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
> to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
> that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
> get this dog house-trained and save his life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional
> training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
> guns -- physical and verbal discipline. Whenever the
> dog soiled the house (no, you don't even have to
> catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
> calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to
> the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the
> chair, with his nose about two inches away from the
> poop. After a couple of swats on the rump, some
> loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd
> release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I
> had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
> and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
> went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
> his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
> novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
> detonator to reply via e-mail

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >

P.S. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >

"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall