My poor little rat with a huge tumor.

Regarding euthanasia,

Why go to the vet for euthanasia at all, when IMO, euthanasia can be
carried out at home?

Automotive starting fluid is predominantly ether, and available in
aerosol form at any auto parts store. I think one could euthanise
one's own pet by causing him/her to breathe the concentrated ether
fumes.

I suppose this might sound barbaric to some, but it would seem to be
less so than a needle in the heart, which we have no way of knowing
the rat can feel or not feel.

Anyone else think of this?

Fred
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

I poke her tumor because I want to see if it hurts her (to see if her
tumor is painful for her). It does not.

It's really big... I don't know if it is worth it... how much does it cost?

If I have the tumor removed won't she have a seam on her chest where the
tumor was? That sounds painful and uncomfortable. I would be afraid
she'd get dirty bedding on it or something. Like, urine soaked bedding
and that would be painful for her and unfomfortable for me to imagine.

She's pretty old anyway, if I take the tumor out it will only prolong
her life and I have been waiting for her to die. As terrible as that
sounds.

It sounds like a bloody mess anyway.

I don't FEEL evil.

Susan Aplin wrote:
> You really need to take Ratella to the vets if you haven't done so
> already.It may already be too late to remove the tumour but then again it
> is possible to remove a very large tumour quite successfully.The alternative
> (the way you described how it may kill her) is pretty horrific and i am sure
> that you wouldn't want to take that chance with her.Take her to your vet -
> please!
> P.S Why do you poke her tumour?
> Best Wishes to Ratella
> Sue x
> "Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Mj3ob.221273$6C4.130854@pd7tw1no...
>
>>My rat, "Ratella," has had a tumor growing on her bely for quite some
>>time. It has gotten quite huge now.
>>
>>In my little book on rats, it says about (benign) tumors that "If not
>>surgically removed, they often outgrow their blood supply, resulting in
>>gangrene of the tumor itself. When this happens, toxic substances from
>>the dying tumor are absorbed into the body, and the animal can become
>>sick and die."
>>
>>I guess that this is how she will die. (If I don't have her euthanized)
>>
>>So... ok. My rat's tumor, quite large now, is cold to the touch in one
>>part. This leads me to believe that there is no circulation to this part.
>>
>>When these toxic substances start to be absorbed into my rats body and
>>make her sick, will she be in a lot of pain? I mean, when this starts
>>to happen will she be suffering, unable to move properly and feeling
>>terribly sick? Will her life be filled with suffereing and anguish?
>>
>>I guess I'm appealing to those who have seen this happen to a rat. What
>>is it like for the rat if I don't have her euthanized? If it is not too
>>painful to talk about.
>>
>>She's quite OK right now. Other than being somewhat obstructed by her
>>tumor she seems no different than before.
>>
>>I don't think that currently she is feeling any pain in her tumor
>>because when I poke it she doesn't squeek or jump or anything.
>>
>>Thnx.
>>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

Andrew,
I am sure you are not evil and if i gave the impression that is what i
though of you then i apologise.I only asked why you poked her tumour because
when our girl had a tumour we did everything we could to avoid touching it
firstly in case it did hurt her and secondly because we hated to feel it
growing -trying to avoid the truth if you like.
It already sounds too big to remove but only you and your vet can make that
decision.Here in England the costs can vary from £60 to £80 depending on the
difficulty of the op.Don't worry about the wound area - they are usually
very neat and tidy and heal amazingly quickly and she will be given
painkillers.You say she is old so maybe an operation will be too risky
anyway.I really sympathise with you.It sounds like you are really struggling
with making the right decision.Its hard isn't it?Just think of what is best
for her and be with her if you decide to put her to rest.
All best wishes to you and your girl
Sue x
"Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AKdob.226020$9l5.130782@pd7tw2no...
> I poke her tumor because I want to see if it hurts her (to see if her
> tumor is painful for her). It does not.
>
> It's really big... I don't know if it is worth it... how much does it
cost?
>
> If I have the tumor removed won't she have a seam on her chest where the
> tumor was? That sounds painful and uncomfortable. I would be afraid
> she'd get dirty bedding on it or something. Like, urine soaked bedding
> and that would be painful for her and unfomfortable for me to imagine.
>
> She's pretty old anyway, if I take the tumor out it will only prolong
> her life and I have been waiting for her to die. As terrible as that
> sounds.
>
> It sounds like a bloody mess anyway.
>
> I don't FEEL evil.
>
> Susan Aplin wrote:
> > You really need to take Ratella to the vets if you haven't done so
> > already.It may already be too late to remove the tumour but then again
it
> > is possible to remove a very large tumour quite successfully.The
alternative
> > (the way you described how it may kill her) is pretty horrific and i am
sure
> > that you wouldn't want to take that chance with her.Take her to your
vet -
> > please!
> > P.S Why do you poke her tumour?
> > Best Wishes to Ratella
> > Sue x
> > "Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Mj3ob.221273$6C4.130854@pd7tw1no...
> >
> >>My rat, "Ratella," has had a tumor growing on her bely for quite some
> >>time. It has gotten quite huge now.
> >>
> >>In my little book on rats, it says about (benign) tumors that "If not
> >>surgically removed, they often outgrow their blood supply, resulting in
> >>gangrene of the tumor itself. When this happens, toxic substances from
> >>the dying tumor are absorbed into the body, and the animal can become
> >>sick and die."
> >>
> >>I guess that this is how she will die. (If I don't have her euthanized)
> >>
> >>So... ok. My rat's tumor, quite large now, is cold to the touch in one
> >>part. This leads me to believe that there is no circulation to this
part.
> >>
> >>When these toxic substances start to be absorbed into my rats body and
> >>make her sick, will she be in a lot of pain? I mean, when this starts
> >>to happen will she be suffering, unable to move properly and feeling
> >>terribly sick? Will her life be filled with suffereing and anguish?
> >>
> >>I guess I'm appealing to those who have seen this happen to a rat. What
> >>is it like for the rat if I don't have her euthanized? If it is not too
> >>painful to talk about.
> >>
> >>She's quite OK right now. Other than being somewhat obstructed by her
> >>tumor she seems no different than before.
> >>
> >>I don't think that currently she is feeling any pain in her tumor
> >>because when I poke it she doesn't squeek or jump or anything.
> >>
> >>Thnx.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

I used to have my father self euthanize my mice, because I believe the heart
needle is much less traumatic than being knocked unconscious and then
killed. I've always had my rats euthanized however.

I worked at a vet clinic for about 6 years and I must say, it *IS*
disturbing watching them euthanize rodents and it really does cause them
some pain... definitely.

Kelly

"Furface Fred" <FurfaceFr.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d94bfc7d.0310301808.1e330d5@posting.google.com...
> Regarding euthanasia,
>
> Why go to the vet for euthanasia at all, when IMO, euthanasia can be
> carried out at home?
>
> Automotive starting fluid is predominantly ether, and available in
> aerosol form at any auto parts store. I think one could euthanise
> one's own pet by causing him/her to breathe the concentrated ether
> fumes.
>
> I suppose this might sound barbaric to some, but it would seem to be
> less so than a needle in the heart, which we have no way of knowing
> the rat can feel or not feel.
>
> Anyone else think of this?
>
> Fred
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

Sorry, I think the heart needle is much MORE traumatic than being knocked
unconscious and then killed.

"Kelly" <kellyanne DeleteThis @sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:XDkob.5325$Nz5.426170@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I used to have my father self euthanize my mice, because I believe the
heart
> needle is much less traumatic than being knocked unconscious and then
> killed. I've always had my rats euthanized however.
>
> I worked at a vet clinic for about 6 years and I must say, it *IS*
> disturbing watching them euthanize rodents and it really does cause them
> some pain... definitely.
>
> Kelly
>
> "Furface Fred" <FurfaceFr DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> news:d94bfc7d.0310301808.1e330d5@posting.google.com...
> > Regarding euthanasia,
> >
> > Why go to the vet for euthanasia at all, when IMO, euthanasia can be
> > carried out at home?
> >
> > Automotive starting fluid is predominantly ether, and available in
> > aerosol form at any auto parts store. I think one could euthanise
> > one's own pet by causing him/her to breathe the concentrated ether
> > fumes.
> >
> > I suppose this might sound barbaric to some, but it would seem to be
> > less so than a needle in the heart, which we have no way of knowing
> > the rat can feel or not feel.
> >
> > Anyone else think of this?
> >
> > Fred
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

That's not too expensive. I could easily afford the cost. That makes
me more willing to do it. But two hundred dollars, that's a lot of
money and I'm not sure how long she'll live after the tumor is out.
You're right though, this is a conversation to have with the vet I guess.

I don't think she's too old. She's got alot of life left in her. Her
fur has been looking scraggily of late though. I'll take a look at it
again tonight and see how large it is. Maybe I'll take him to the vet,
but probably not. Maybe I will.

I am struggling a little bit. I'm not struggling alot though. It must
have been a struggle for you. My sister says that when she sees the
poor rat she feels really sad.

Thx. You are very nice. I have a habit of judging people. Thinking
wrong things about what people are thinking about me or what their
attitudes are about me.

Susan Aplin wrote:
> Andrew,
> I am sure you are not evil and if i gave the impression that is what i
> though of you then i apologise.I only asked why you poked her tumour because
> when our girl had a tumour we did everything we could to avoid touching it
> firstly in case it did hurt her and secondly because we hated to feel it
> growing -trying to avoid the truth if you like.
> It already sounds too big to remove but only you and your vet can make that
> decision.Here in England the costs can vary from £60 to £80 depending on the
> difficulty of the op.Don't worry about the wound area - they are usually
> very neat and tidy and heal amazingly quickly and she will be given
> painkillers.You say she is old so maybe an operation will be too risky
> anyway.I really sympathise with you.It sounds like you are really struggling
> with making the right decision.Its hard isn't it?Just think of what is best
> for her and be with her if you decide to put her to rest.
> All best wishes to you and your girl
> Sue x
> "Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AKdob.226020$9l5.130782@pd7tw2no...
>
>>I poke her tumor because I want to see if it hurts her (to see if her
>>tumor is painful for her). It does not.
>>
>>It's really big... I don't know if it is worth it... how much does it
>
> cost?
>
>>If I have the tumor removed won't she have a seam on her chest where the
>>tumor was? That sounds painful and uncomfortable. I would be afraid
>>she'd get dirty bedding on it or something. Like, urine soaked bedding
>>and that would be painful for her and unfomfortable for me to imagine.
>>
>>She's pretty old anyway, if I take the tumor out it will only prolong
>>her life and I have been waiting for her to die. As terrible as that
>>sounds.
>>
>>It sounds like a bloody mess anyway.
>>
>>I don't FEEL evil.
>>
>>Susan Aplin wrote:
>>
>>>You really need to take Ratella to the vets if you haven't done so
>>>already.It may already be too late to remove the tumour but then again
>
> it
>
>>>is possible to remove a very large tumour quite successfully.The
>
> alternative
>
>>>(the way you described how it may kill her) is pretty horrific and i am
>
> sure
>
>>>that you wouldn't want to take that chance with her.Take her to your
>
> vet -
>
>>>please!
>>>P.S Why do you poke her tumour?
>>>Best Wishes to Ratella
>>>Sue x
>>>"Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Mj3ob.221273$6C4.130854@pd7tw1no...
>>>
>>>
>>>>My rat, "Ratella," has had a tumor growing on her bely for quite some
>>>>time. It has gotten quite huge now.
>>>>
>>>>In my little book on rats, it says about (benign) tumors that "If not
>>>>surgically removed, they often outgrow their blood supply, resulting in
>>>>gangrene of the tumor itself. When this happens, toxic substances from
>>>>the dying tumor are absorbed into the body, and the animal can become
>>>>sick and die."
>>>>
>>>>I guess that this is how she will die. (If I don't have her euthanized)
>>>>
>>>>So... ok. My rat's tumor, quite large now, is cold to the touch in one
>>>>part. This leads me to believe that there is no circulation to this
>
> part.
>
>>>>When these toxic substances start to be absorbed into my rats body and
>>>>make her sick, will she be in a lot of pain? I mean, when this starts
>>>>to happen will she be suffering, unable to move properly and feeling
>>>>terribly sick? Will her life be filled with suffereing and anguish?
>>>>
>>>>I guess I'm appealing to those who have seen this happen to a rat. What
>>>>is it like for the rat if I don't have her euthanized? If it is not too
>>>>painful to talk about.
>>>>
>>>>She's quite OK right now. Other than being somewhat obstructed by her
>>>>tumor she seems no different than before.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think that currently she is feeling any pain in her tumor
>>>>because when I poke it she doesn't squeek or jump or anything.
>>>>
>>>>Thnx.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

I personally thought of this. I read 2 articles on the internet about
it. They suggested chemicals such as halothane chloroform and some
other chemical. About 3 months ago I tried to obtain these chemicals.
I phoned several chemical supply stores and found only one that carried
chloroform. I phoned them and left a message on their machine but I did
not get a reply. I did not pursue it after that.

Anyway, I asked my vet, they put my rat to sleep before they use the
needle. It only costs $24.

Furface Fred wrote:

> Regarding euthanasia,
>
> Why go to the vet for euthanasia at all, when IMO, euthanasia can be
> carried out at home?
>
> Automotive starting fluid is predominantly ether, and available in
> aerosol form at any auto parts store. I think one could euthanise
> one's own pet by causing him/her to breathe the concentrated ether
> fumes.
>
> I suppose this might sound barbaric to some, but it would seem to be
> less so than a needle in the heart, which we have no way of knowing
> the rat can feel or not feel.
>
> Anyone else think of this?
>
> Fred
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

"J&S Bouchard" <j-s.b.DeleteThis@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Xnlob.5688$Nm6.350104@news20.bellglobal.com...

> The problem with knocked unconscious is if not done right, you could only
be
> cause the animal severe trauma and not truly knocked out therefore
> experiencing great pain. You have to make sure it's cervical dislocation
for
> it to truly have worked.
> It sure is a hard issue to deal with...


Yes I agree with that. What I would recommend to people is to ask their vet
to put the rat under anesthetic before giving the needle in the heart. A
rat can easily be put under isoflurane gas anesthetic, which does not
require a needle. It's typically just a mask over the animals face, or
they put the rat in an isoflurane chamber. THEN euthanize with the needle
in the heart. I believe this would be the least traumatic.

Kelly
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

"Furface Fred" <FurfaceFr DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:d94bfc7d.0310301808.1e330d5@posting.google.com...
> Regarding euthanasia,
>
> Why go to the vet for euthanasia at all, when IMO, euthanasia can be
> carried out at home?
>
> Automotive starting fluid is predominantly ether, and available in
> aerosol form at any auto parts store. I think one could euthanise
> one's own pet by causing him/her to breathe the concentrated ether
> fumes.
>
> I suppose this might sound barbaric to some, but it would seem to be
> less so than a needle in the heart, which we have no way of knowing
> the rat can feel or not feel.
>
> Anyone else think of this?
>
> Fred

I wouldn't dare euthanise an animal myself incase something went wrong and I
caused more suffering.

Tracey
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

I had one of mine put to sleep in June and that's the way we did it.
She objected briefly to the iso, but after the first huff she calmed
down and went to sleep after a couple more breaths. I don't think she
ever felt the needle nor any pain. She just gradually ceased
breathing. It was about as stress-free as I can imagine. But still not
something I would want to do every day.



"Kelly" <kellyanne.RemoveThis@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<Hvuob.3654$9j3.512920@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> "J&S Bouchard" <j-s.b.RemoveThis@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:Xnlob.5688$Nm6.350104@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> > The problem with knocked unconscious is if not done right, you could only
> be
> > cause the animal severe trauma and not truly knocked out therefore
> > experiencing great pain. You have to make sure it's cervical dislocation
> for
> > it to truly have worked.
> > It sure is a hard issue to deal with...
>
>
> Yes I agree with that. What I would recommend to people is to ask their vet
> to put the rat under anesthetic before giving the needle in the heart. A
> rat can easily be put under isoflurane gas anesthetic, which does not
> require a needle. It's typically just a mask over the animals face, or
> they put the rat in an isoflurane chamber. THEN euthanize with the needle
> in the heart. I believe this would be the least traumatic.
>
> Kelly
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

A bit late but i still would like to tell my story.
Andrew, I experienced the exact same thing with my rat Chufi. She had
a tumor that grew very large very fast. Just before this happened, I
had a very bad vet-experience (he operated on one of my rats, who had
a abcess in her face. after the operation I had to go back several
times so he could clean the wound, that got infected, which caused her
terrible pain. Only after a while he told me she had about zero chance
to begin with. I then had her put to sleep but felt so guilty that I
had let her spend her last days in such agony.)

So with Chufi,I decided to see what would happen and decided that if
she: could not eat or drink with appetite,
would no longer greet me with enthousiasm,
or would not be able to move about like she wanted to,
or would start to breathe with difficulty,
I would make the decision to have her put to sleep.
She lived for another 6 months before I had to make that decision. She
was never in a lot of pain. I had her put to sleep before any of the
symptoms I described occurred. Some would maybe say that was too soon,
but I did this because I did not want her to suffer.

I read all the posts about operating or not operating, euthanizing
rats yourself etc.
I think one of the most important issues of being a pet-owner is
raised here: the huge responsibility you have because the entire life
and fate of these little creatures lies in your hands. And everybody
makes these decisions differently. I still have no regrets about not
going to the vet with Chufi. It is my belief that because rats have
such a short life, a traumatic surgery (and surgery is always
traumatic, something which every human who has ever had even a minor
operation will know) must always be carefully considered, because
every day in pain actually makes up such a large part of the rat's
life. But I also respect other people's opinions who want to do
anything that's possible.. and maybe I would do things differently in
the future too (I do have a different vet now!)
Good luck Andrew with your Ratella.

Klary

Andrew Macaulay <sp_nrc DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Mj3ob.221273$6C4.130854@pd7tw1no>...
> My rat, "Ratella," has had a tumor growing on her bely for quite some
> time. It has gotten quite huge now.
>
> In my little book on rats, it says about (benign) tumors that "If not
> surgically removed, they often outgrow their blood supply, resulting in
> gangrene of the tumor itself. When this happens, toxic substances from
> the dying tumor are absorbed into the body, and the animal can become
> sick and die."
>
> I guess that this is how she will die. (If I don't have her euthanized)
>
> So... ok. My rat's tumor, quite large now, is cold to the touch in one
> part. This leads me to believe that there is no circulation to this part.
>
> When these toxic substances start to be absorbed into my rats body and
> make her sick, will she be in a lot of pain? I mean, when this starts
> to happen will she be suffering, unable to move properly and feeling
> terribly sick? Will her life be filled with suffereing and anguish?
>
> I guess I'm appealing to those who have seen this happen to a rat. What
> is it like for the rat if I don't have her euthanized? If it is not too
> painful to talk about.
>
> She's quite OK right now. Other than being somewhat obstructed by her
> tumor she seems no different than before.
>
> I don't think that currently she is feeling any pain in her tumor
> because when I poke it she doesn't squeek or jump or anything.
>
> Thnx.
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

This may be a silly question...but why don't you get it removed???
"Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mj3ob.221273$6C4.130854@pd7tw1no...
> My rat, "Ratella," has had a tumor growing on her bely for quite some
> time. It has gotten quite huge now.
>
> In my little book on rats, it says about (benign) tumors that "If not
> surgically removed, they often outgrow their blood supply, resulting in
> gangrene of the tumor itself. When this happens, toxic substances from
> the dying tumor are absorbed into the body, and the animal can become
> sick and die."
>
> I guess that this is how she will die. (If I don't have her euthanized)
>
> So... ok. My rat's tumor, quite large now, is cold to the touch in one
> part. This leads me to believe that there is no circulation to this part.
>
> When these toxic substances start to be absorbed into my rats body and
> make her sick, will she be in a lot of pain? I mean, when this starts
> to happen will she be suffering, unable to move properly and feeling
> terribly sick? Will her life be filled with suffereing and anguish?
>
> I guess I'm appealing to those who have seen this happen to a rat. What
> is it like for the rat if I don't have her euthanized? If it is not too
> painful to talk about.
>
> She's quite OK right now. Other than being somewhat obstructed by her
> tumor she seems no different than before.
>
> I don't think that currently she is feeling any pain in her tumor
> because when I poke it she doesn't squeek or jump or anything.
>
> Thnx.
>
 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor. 

A very stupid way to test your Rats pain reaction !!! Rats have a high
tolerance to pain sadly... She could be in agony long before she showed any
evidence of it.
"Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AKdob.226020$9l5.130782@pd7tw2no...
> I poke her tumor because I want to see if it hurts her (to see if her
> tumor is painful for her). It does not.
>
> It's really big... I don't know if it is worth it... how much does it
cost?
>
> If I have the tumor removed won't she have a seam on her chest where the
> tumor was? That sounds painful and uncomfortable. I would be afraid
> she'd get dirty bedding on it or something. Like, urine soaked bedding
> and that would be painful for her and unfomfortable for me to imagine.
>
> She's pretty old anyway, if I take the tumor out it will only prolong
> her life and I have been waiting for her to die. As terrible as that
> sounds.
>
> It sounds like a bloody mess anyway.
>
> I don't FEEL evil.
>
> Susan Aplin wrote:
> > You really need to take Ratella to the vets if you haven't done so
> > already.It may already be too late to remove the tumour but then again
it
> > is possible to remove a very large tumour quite successfully.The
alternative
> > (the way you described how it may kill her) is pretty horrific and i am
sure
> > that you wouldn't want to take that chance with her.Take her to your
vet -
> > please!
> > P.S Why do you poke her tumour?
> > Best Wishes to Ratella
> > Sue x
> > "Andrew Macaulay" <sp_nrc.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Mj3ob.221273$6C4.130854@pd7tw1no...
> >
> >>My rat, "Ratella," has had a tumor growing on her bely for quite some
> >>time. It has gotten quite huge now.
> >>
> >>In my little book on rats, it says about (benign) tumors that "If not
> >>surgically removed, they often outgrow their blood supply, resulting in
> >>gangrene of the tumor itself. When this happens, toxic substances from
> >>the dying tumor are absorbed into the body, and the animal can become
> >>sick and die."
> >>
> >>I guess that this is how she will die. (If I don't have her euthanized)
> >>
> >>So... ok. My rat's tumor, quite large now, is cold to the touch in one
> >>part. This leads me to believe that there is no circulation to this
part.
> >>
> >>When these toxic substances start to be absorbed into my rats body and
> >>make her sick, will she be in a lot of pain? I mean, when this starts
> >>to happen will she be suffering, unable to move properly and feeling
> >>terribly sick? Will her life be filled with suffereing and anguish?
> >>
> >>I guess I'm appealing to those who have seen this happen to a rat. What
> >>is it like for the rat if I don't have her euthanized? If it is not too
> >>painful to talk about.
> >>
> >>She's quite OK right now. Other than being somewhat obstructed by her
> >>tumor she seems no different than before.
> >>
> >>I don't think that currently she is feeling any pain in her tumor
> >>because when I poke it she doesn't squeek or jump or anything.
> >>
> >>Thnx.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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 >> Stay informed about: My poor little rat with a huge tumor.