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Dog breeds in order of 'size' - Help needed please!

 
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Tara

External


Since: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 764



(Msg. 46) Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:45 am
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - Help needed please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>breeds (more info?)

Shelly <scouvrette RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in news:fcs5mc$79n$1
@registered.motzarella.org:

> Bekki <lilninotchka RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1190237133.407459.254760@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Anybody who has researched the breed they own should not be
>> surprised to learn that generally, the APBT is considered a
>> slightly shorter, more muscular dog than the AMSTAFF.
>
> Okaythen! The breed I own is not either of those, but yes, it *does*
> surprise me, as in my universe, that's just not true. Furthermore, I
> know long-term owners of both breeds who would be hard pressed to
> correctly identify whether an unknown bully was an AmStaff or Pit
> Bull.
>

This is where the fact that the actual *dogs* are rarely bred to the
*ideal* has an impact on perception.

But in terms of the breed standards, the Amstaff is slightly larger then
the APBT. Hey, I didn't write the standards, the breed clubs did. Have an
issue with the differences, then you might take it up with them.

Tara

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Paul E. Schoen

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Since: May 27, 2007
Posts: 397



(Msg. 47) Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - UPDATED LIST! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Bekki" <lilninotchka RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1190265129.542068.269120@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
>
> The Chow Chow probably needs to be moved up. It is about the size of
> the English Springer Spaniel. Most of these still seem to be placed
> without a common determiner. I think it's been asked before, but what
> criteria are you actually wanting to use for this?
>
> The Chesapeake Bay Retreiver is about the same size as the English
> Setter. I once knew a Chesapeake that was the size of a small horse
> though. lol (OK, maybe not really THAT big but still... He was WAY
> oversized.)

I agree that it would be helpful to know the reason for an ordered list,
especially when there is so much variation in size and weight for any given
breed. There are probably maximum and minimum standards for each breed, and
there must be a median or average about halfway in that range. But there
must be some consideration for the relative importance of height, length,
and weight. There could be three separate ordered lists for each attribute.
Otherwise one must choose a combination of the three for a ranking score.
It could also be plotted on a three-dimensional graph, which can be done in
Excel, for instance, so one can quickly visualize the position of each
breed.

If the OP could present the data he/she used to make the revised list, the
ranking could be verified, and a proper graphic representation might be
possible. But without that, further discussion is rather useless.

Paul and Muttley

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pfoley

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Since: May 24, 2007
Posts: 807



(Msg. 48) Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:13 am
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - Help needed please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>
> > "Kathleen" <khhfmdeletethis.DeleteThis@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:71iIi.513$Ez7.20@newsfe05.lga...
>

Kathleen spoke:
(Again, completely without attribution, the second one as well)

Have you ever personally met dogs (or even *a* dog) of both or either
breed(s)? Chatted with their breeders, handlers or owners? Seen them
shown? Talked to a judge?

I could write up an article about the physical and temperamental
differences between black-and-white border collies and white-and-black
border collies and I could make it convincing enough that Wikipedia ("The
Dumb-Ass Reference of Choice") would keep it up and people would read it and
nod sagely, and say, "See, it must be true".

And anybody who had any experience with the actual dogs would smack their
heads with their palms and resign themselves to dealing with a wave of
educumated dumbasses who know all about the major temperamental,
physical and behavioral differences between the two breeds.

What people who know what the hell they're talking about say:

http://www.norwichandnorfolkterrier.org/

From the FAQ:
What is the difference between a Norwich and a Norfolk terrier?
Norwich and Norfolk terriers were originally one breed, called
Norwich terriers - but distinguished informally as "prick-ears" or
"drop-ears". In England in 1964, the (British) Kennel Club separated the
breed into two, with the drop-ears taking the name of Norfolk Terrier and
the prick-ears retaining the name of Norwich Terrier.
Effective 1 January 1979, the American Kennel Club took the same step.

Those who have both breeds say that there are other subtle
differences between Norwich and Norfolk terriers. This is often a topic of
conversation when Norwich and Norfolk breeders meet.

Even breeders of both breeds (and I personally can't think of any which is
not to say they don't exist) will admit that other than the ears the
differences are *SUBTLE*.

As late as 1963 in Great Britain they were the same breed. Same DNA pool
with minor phenotypical variations.

For AKC purposes they were *the same breed* until 1979. Exactly how much
differentiation do you think the two bloodlines could could have undergone
in the 28 years since?

==========
pfoley spoke:

You should discuss your problems with the AKC and CKC. I didn't make the
ruling. The first article shown in the previous message above came from a
breeder of Norfolk and Norwich Terriers site. This is their link.
Breeder
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/wildgoose_terriers/index.html

The second article I posted in the above message , explaining the ruling,
came from the AKC site. If you insist that they are one breed, then at this
date in time, you would be wrong.

AKC Norfolk History
http://www.akc.org/breeds/norfolk_terrier/history.cfm

This link below from a breeder shows the CKC standard for Norfolk Terriers
and the second link shows the CKC standard for Norwich Terriers. These are
judges references. As you can see from the photos, they do look a little
different from each other.

CKC standard for Norfolk Terrier
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/wildgoose_terriers/Breed%20Description/p...norf_st

CKC standard for Norwich Terriers

http://www.angelfire.com/folk/wildgoose_terriers/Breed%20Description/p...norw_st

They are both very cute, but I don't think I want to talk about them
anymore.
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Spamfree!

External


Since: Dec 19, 2006
Posts: 8



(Msg. 49) Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - UPDATED UPDATED LIST! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hi all!

Thanks for your help - sorry to have inadvertently started the Norwich and
Staffordshire Wars. (It was good fun watching though!)

Many posts pose the suggestion that if I could reveal the purpose for the
list it may be easier to offer helpful responses.

Unfortunately, if I reveal the purpose of the list I shall be shot down in
flames! Without getting near (I hope) to flaming territory I can reveal that
the list I'm preparing is a list of dog breeds which are suitable for a
series of five sizes of dog attire, the suitability mainly - but not
exclusively - determined by the chest size; sometimes the overall size of
the dog (eg, a daschund, or a whippet) is a more substantial factor than the
chest size. Hence the indeterminable factor of 'size'.

Any more comments gratefully received.
_______________________________________

Here's where I am with my 'size' list:
Chihuahua
Pomeranian
Papillon
Havanese
Maltese
Yorkshire Terrier
Chinese Crested
Lhasa Apso
Maltese
Toy Fox Terrier
Bichon Frise
Toy Poodle
Toy Manchester Terrier
Pekingese
Shih Tzu
French Bulldog
Miniature Dachshund
Brussels Griffon
Hungarian Puli
Miniature Pinscher
Silky Terrier
Dandie Dinmont Terrier
Standard Manchester Terrier
Miniature Bull Terrier
Australian Terrier
King Charles Cavalier Spaniel
Cairn Terrier
Scottish Terrier
Skye Terrier
West Highland White Terrier
Norfolk Terrier
Norwich Terrier
Sealyham Terrier
Boston Terrier
Italian Greyhound
Welsh Corgi
Miniature Schnauzer
Pug
Miniature Poodle
Standard Dachshund
Jack Russell Terrier
Parson Russell Terrier
Border Terrier
Lakeland Terrier
Patterdale Terrier
Smooth Haired Fox Terrier
Wire Haired Fox Terrier
Welsh Terrier
Bedlington Terrier
Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier
Irish Terrier
Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen
Pembroke Welsh Corgi
Whippet
Beagle
Samoyed
Chinese Shar-Pei
English Cocker Spaniel
American Cocker Spaniel
Border Collie
Saluki
Bulldog
American Eskimo Dog
American Bulldog
Kerry Blue Terrier
Pharaoh Hound
Bearded Collie
American Pit Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Poodle
American Staffordshire Terrier
Brittany Spaniel
Keeshund
Wire Haired Pointing Griffon
Bull Terrier
Norwegian Elkhound
Basset Hound
Shetland Sheepdog
Irish Water Spaniel
American Water Spaniel
Vizsla
Standard Schnauzer
Sussex Spaniel
Welsh Springer Spaniel
English Springer Spaniel
Chow Chow
Clumber Spaniel
English Foxhound
American Foxhound
Australian Cattle Dog
Australian Shepherd
Siberian Husky
English Setter
Chesapeake Bay Retriever
Dalmatian
Portuguese Water Dog
Boxer
Alaskan Malamute
Flat Coated Retriever
Smooth Coated Collie
Rough Coated Collie
Airedale Terrier
Pointer
Irish Setter
Catahoula Leopard Dog
Golden Retriever
Ibizan Hound
Afghan Hound
Labrador Retriever
Weimaraner
Doberman Pinscher
Greyhound
Akita
Borzoi
Giant Schnauzer
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Bullmastiff
Black and Tan Coonhound
Belgian Sheepdog
Belgian Malinois
Belgian Tervuren
Scottish Deerhound
German Shepherd Dog
Old English Sheepdog
Rottweiler
Great Pyrenean Mountain Dog
Otterhound
Bernese Mountain Dog
Neapolitan Mastiff
Irish Wolfhound
Newfoundland
Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
Bloodhound
Saint Bernard
Great Dane
Mastiff
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Paul E. Schoen

External


Since: May 27, 2007
Posts: 397



(Msg. 50) Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - UPDATED UPDATED LIST! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Spamfree!" <spamfree.TakeThisOut@123456.com> wrote in message
news:fd6fum$iau$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Hi all!
>
> Thanks for your help - sorry to have inadvertently started the Norwich
> and Staffordshire Wars. (It was good fun watching though!)
>
> Many posts pose the suggestion that if I could reveal the purpose for the
> list it may be easier to offer helpful responses.
>
> Unfortunately, if I reveal the purpose of the list I shall be shot down
> in flames! Without getting near (I hope) to flaming territory I can
> reveal that the list I'm preparing is a list of dog breeds which are
> suitable for a series of five sizes of dog attire, the suitability
> mainly - but not exclusively - determined by the chest size; sometimes
> the overall size of the dog (eg, a daschund, or a whippet) is a more
> substantial factor than the chest size. Hence the indeterminable factor
> of 'size'.
>
> Any more comments gratefully received.
> _______________________________________
>
> Here's where I am with my 'size' list:
> Chihuahua
> Pomeranian
> Papillon
> Havanese
> Maltese
> Yorkshire Terrier
> Chinese Crested
> Lhasa Apso
> Maltese
> Toy Fox Terrier
> Bichon Frise
> Toy Poodle
> Toy Manchester Terrier
> Pekingese
> Shih Tzu
> French Bulldog
> Miniature Dachshund
> Brussels Griffon
> Hungarian Puli
> Miniature Pinscher
> Silky Terrier
> Dandie Dinmont Terrier
> Standard Manchester Terrier
> Miniature Bull Terrier
> Australian Terrier
> King Charles Cavalier Spaniel
> Cairn Terrier
> Scottish Terrier
> Skye Terrier
> West Highland White Terrier
> Norfolk Terrier
> Norwich Terrier
> Sealyham Terrier
> Boston Terrier
> Italian Greyhound
> Welsh Corgi
> Miniature Schnauzer
> Pug
> Miniature Poodle
> Standard Dachshund
> Jack Russell Terrier
> Parson Russell Terrier
> Border Terrier
> Lakeland Terrier
> Patterdale Terrier
> Smooth Haired Fox Terrier
> Wire Haired Fox Terrier
> Welsh Terrier
> Bedlington Terrier
> Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier
> Irish Terrier
> Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen
> Pembroke Welsh Corgi
> Whippet
> Beagle
> Samoyed
> Chinese Shar-Pei
> English Cocker Spaniel
> American Cocker Spaniel
> Border Collie
> Saluki
> Bulldog
> American Eskimo Dog
> American Bulldog
> Kerry Blue Terrier
> Pharaoh Hound
> Bearded Collie
> American Pit Bull Terrier
> Staffordshire Bull Terrier
> Poodle
> American Staffordshire Terrier
> Brittany Spaniel
> Keeshund
> Wire Haired Pointing Griffon
> Bull Terrier
> Norwegian Elkhound
> Basset Hound
> Shetland Sheepdog
> Irish Water Spaniel
> American Water Spaniel
> Vizsla
> Standard Schnauzer
> Sussex Spaniel
> Welsh Springer Spaniel
> English Springer Spaniel
> Chow Chow
> Clumber Spaniel
> English Foxhound
> American Foxhound
> Australian Cattle Dog
> Australian Shepherd
> Siberian Husky
> English Setter
> Chesapeake Bay Retriever
> Dalmatian
> Portuguese Water Dog
> Boxer
> Alaskan Malamute
> Flat Coated Retriever
> Smooth Coated Collie
> Rough Coated Collie
> Airedale Terrier
> Pointer
> Irish Setter
> Catahoula Leopard Dog
> Golden Retriever
> Ibizan Hound
> Afghan Hound
> Labrador Retriever
> Weimaraner
> Doberman Pinscher
> Greyhound
> Akita
> Borzoi
> Giant Schnauzer
> Rhodesian Ridgeback
> Bullmastiff
> Black and Tan Coonhound
> Belgian Sheepdog
> Belgian Malinois
> Belgian Tervuren
> Scottish Deerhound
> German Shepherd Dog
> Old English Sheepdog
> Rottweiler
> Great Pyrenean Mountain Dog
> Otterhound
> Bernese Mountain Dog
> Neapolitan Mastiff
> Irish Wolfhound
> Newfoundland
> Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
> Bloodhound
> Saint Bernard
> Great Dane
> Mastiff
>

You should add the Anatolian Shepherd Dog (ASD) somewhere around the end of
that list. These dogs are usually 100-160 lb, and can be over 200 lb.

http://www.asdca.org/
http://www.yorukanatolian.com/index.html
http://www.anatoliandog.org/ukc.htm

Paul and Muttley
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diddy

External


Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 1174



(Msg. 51) Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - UPDATED UPDATED LIST! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech RemoveThis @smart.net> spoke these words of wisdom in
news:46f7106a$0$15910$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net:

>
> "Spamfree!" <spamfree RemoveThis @123456.com> wrote in message
> news:fd6fum$iau$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>> Hi all!
>>
>> Thanks for your help - sorry to have inadvertently started the Norwich
>> and Staffordshire Wars. (It was good fun watching though!)
>>
>> Many posts pose the suggestion that if I could reveal the purpose for
>> the list it may be easier to offer helpful responses.
>>
>> Unfortunately, if I reveal the purpose of the list I shall be shot down
>> in flames! Without getting near (I hope) to flaming territory I can
>> reveal that the list I'm preparing is a list of dog breeds which are
>> suitable for a series of five sizes of dog attire, the suitability
>> mainly - but not exclusively - determined by the chest size; sometimes
>> the overall size of the dog (eg, a daschund, or a whippet) is a more
>> substantial factor than the chest size. Hence the indeterminable factor
>> of 'size'.
>>
>> Any more comments gratefully received.
>> _______________________________________

With Chest diameter a factor, this list needs to be seriously revised.

Corgi's are big dogs on short legs.

Size deceiving

English Bulldogs are MASSIVE in the chests.

Elkhounds have round barrel bodies.. and wear the same size harness as
many slab sided German shepherds.. Yet their body length is so short
coupled, that they ALWAYS have to have the harness length taken in across
the back.

So probably you need to have the customer measure chest width and back
length, and then determine size based on the range of sizes you offer.


>>
>> Here's where I am with my 'size' list:
>> Chihuahua
>> Pomeranian
>> Papillon
>> Havanese
>> Maltese
>> Yorkshire Terrier
>> Chinese Crested
>> Lhasa Apso
>> Maltese
>> Toy Fox Terrier
>> Bichon Frise
>> Toy Poodle
>> Toy Manchester Terrier
>> Pekingese
>> Shih Tzu
>> French Bulldog
>> Miniature Dachshund
>> Brussels Griffon
>> Hungarian Puli
>> Miniature Pinscher
>> Silky Terrier
>> Dandie Dinmont Terrier
>> Standard Manchester Terrier
>> Miniature Bull Terrier
>> Australian Terrier
>> King Charles Cavalier Spaniel
>> Cairn Terrier
>> Scottish Terrier
>> Skye Terrier
>> West Highland White Terrier
>> Norfolk Terrier
>> Norwich Terrier
>> Sealyham Terrier
>> Boston Terrier
>> Italian Greyhound
>> Welsh Corgi
>> Miniature Schnauzer
>> Pug
>> Miniature Poodle
>> Standard Dachshund
>> Jack Russell Terrier
>> Parson Russell Terrier
>> Border Terrier
>> Lakeland Terrier
>> Patterdale Terrier
>> Smooth Haired Fox Terrier
>> Wire Haired Fox Terrier
>> Welsh Terrier
>> Bedlington Terrier
>> Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier
>> Irish Terrier
>> Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen
>> Pembroke Welsh Corgi
>> Whippet
>> Beagle
>> Samoyed
>> Chinese Shar-Pei
>> English Cocker Spaniel
>> American Cocker Spaniel
>> Border Collie
>> Saluki
>> Bulldog
>> American Eskimo Dog
>> American Bulldog
>> Kerry Blue Terrier
>> Pharaoh Hound
>> Bearded Collie
>> American Pit Bull Terrier
>> Staffordshire Bull Terrier
>> Poodle
>> American Staffordshire Terrier
>> Brittany Spaniel
>> Keeshund
>> Wire Haired Pointing Griffon
>> Bull Terrier
>> Norwegian Elkhound
>> Basset Hound
>> Shetland Sheepdog
>> Irish Water Spaniel
>> American Water Spaniel
>> Vizsla
>> Standard Schnauzer
>> Sussex Spaniel
>> Welsh Springer Spaniel
>> English Springer Spaniel
>> Chow Chow
>> Clumber Spaniel
>> English Foxhound
>> American Foxhound
>> Australian Cattle Dog
>> Australian Shepherd
>> Siberian Husky
>> English Setter
>> Chesapeake Bay Retriever
>> Dalmatian
>> Portuguese Water Dog
>> Boxer
>> Alaskan Malamute
>> Flat Coated Retriever
>> Smooth Coated Collie
>> Rough Coated Collie
>> Airedale Terrier
>> Pointer
>> Irish Setter
>> Catahoula Leopard Dog
>> Golden Retriever
>> Ibizan Hound
>> Afghan Hound
>> Labrador Retriever
>> Weimaraner
>> Doberman Pinscher
>> Greyhound
>> Akita
>> Borzoi
>> Giant Schnauzer
>> Rhodesian Ridgeback
>> Bullmastiff
>> Black and Tan Coonhound
>> Belgian Sheepdog
>> Belgian Malinois
>> Belgian Tervuren
>> Scottish Deerhound
>> German Shepherd Dog
>> Old English Sheepdog
>> Rottweiler
>> Great Pyrenean Mountain Dog
>> Otterhound
>> Bernese Mountain Dog
>> Neapolitan Mastiff
>> Irish Wolfhound
>> Newfoundland
>> Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
>> Bloodhound
>> Saint Bernard
>> Great Dane
>> Mastiff
>>
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Craig&Heather

External


Since: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 52) Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - Help needed please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

ALASKAN MALAMUTES can range anywhere from 75 to 170lbs. My male weighed in
at a hefty 150lbs. and he was truley a gentle giant
"Judy" <doubleq RemoveThis @cableracer.com> wrote in message
news:5lcfmaF7fm49U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Judy" <doubleq RemoveThis @cableracer.com> wrote in message
> news:5lcfhlF7evbcU1@mid.individual.net...
> A 13 inch female beagle would vary greatly
>> from a 15 inch male. Both could be in great shape and well within the
>> standard but it would be impossible to place them on a list where two
>> inches and <<<seen>>> pounds makes a world of difference.
>
> That's SEVEN pounds.
>
> Judy
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Suja

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Since: Apr 05, 2007
Posts: 906



(Msg. 53) Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - Help needed please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Craig&Heather" <chtbdunn.DeleteThis@removethisshaw.ca> wrote in message:

> ALASKAN MALAMUTES can range anywhere from 75 to 170lbs. My male weighed
in
> at a hefty 150lbs. and he was truley a gentle giant

The breed standard for Malamutes actually specifies an ideal weight range.
From the AKC: " There is a natural range in size in the breed. The desirable
freighting sizes are males, 25 inches at the shoulders, 85 pounds; females,
23 inches at the shoulders, 75 pounds".

There are unfortunately many unscrupulous breeders out there, advertising
so-called Giant Mals that fall significantly outside the desirable size
ranges.

Suja
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Rocky

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Since: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 738



(Msg. 54) Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Dog breeds in order of 'size' - Help needed please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Suja" <spanaval.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

> There are unfortunately many unscrupulous breeders out
> there, advertising so-called Giant Mals that fall
> significantly outside the desirable size ranges.

Include in that the wonderful 120 pound female, easily 26", who
comes to my house. Not quite 3 years old, she's being treated
for arthritis.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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