Another rat, another illness... Tonka

Thank you for the nice thoughts.

Well, Tonka can be fooled once with medication, but not twice. He didn't
take it from a syringe the second time. So he took some from a piece of
bread. But not after that. Then he took it on a donut. But not after
that. Tonight, I had to force it into his mouth, and I know we didn't
get the full amount down him. And I worry about the stress that puts on
him, all that fighting and stuff.

He is not drinking water. He is kind of eating. He's had half a piece of
pineapple tonight, about a half teaspoon of yogurt with echinacea mixed
in and a few bites of egg. He has gained 20 grams in the last three
days so that's encouraging, but he is a lot more lethargic today. Last
night, he really grabbed and chowed down on a small piece of a cob of
corn and he had a piece of honeydew. He is not interested in his regular
rat pellets at all.

His eyes look even more tired tonight. I took him out earlier and he
just laid still in my arms. Not something he would normally do.

O.R.R. wrote:
> Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their tiny
> systems.
>
> I know with humans, they recommend probiotics or natural bacteria from
> yogurt to replenish what is lost with antibiotic or medication use.
> Replenishes the good bacteria in the intestines.
>
> I have some eggs I am going to boil for mine.
>
> You should have seen them the first time they tasted a bit of pasta!
>
> Like candy in front of a baby lol.
>
> I do pray Tonka gets better.
>
> ((((HUGS))))
>
> Samantha C. in OK,
> SAM is fine too. :)
>
> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:M4ydnSa3Qr6nqc_anZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@utma.com...
>> Hi.
>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _ ,
>> losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I just
>> put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a separate
>> cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close eye on
>> him. He does still have an appetite, he was really into the scrambled
>> eggs I gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I really hope
>> Tonk can recover from this. At least he really likes the antibiotics
>> (doxycycline and baytril flavored like marshmallow, yummy) so I don't
>> have to force that down him. He was cute, grabbing for the syringe
>> when it ran out.
>>
>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their
>> little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see if
>> he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes
>> more than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it
>> actually works.
>>
>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly appreciated.
>> My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marlo
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

I know stage 1 squash baby food is high in water content if you haven't
tried it.

My rats love it.

Worth a try :)

Keep us updated.

Samantha C. in OK

"Marlo" <marlolovesrats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uNWdnaf4m4tsWMnanZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@utma.com...
> Thank you for the nice thoughts.
>
> Well, Tonka can be fooled once with medication, but not twice. He didn't
> take it from a syringe the second time. So he took some from a piece of
> bread. But not after that. Then he took it on a donut. But not after that.
> Tonight, I had to force it into his mouth, and I know we didn't get the
> full amount down him. And I worry about the stress that puts on him, all
> that fighting and stuff.
>
> He is not drinking water. He is kind of eating. He's had half a piece of
> pineapple tonight, about a half teaspoon of yogurt with echinacea mixed in
> and a few bites of egg. He has gained 20 grams in the last three days so
> that's encouraging, but he is a lot more lethargic today. Last night, he
> really grabbed and chowed down on a small piece of a cob of corn and he
> had a piece of honeydew. He is not interested in his regular rat pellets
> at all.
>
> His eyes look even more tired tonight. I took him out earlier and he just
> laid still in my arms. Not something he would normally do.
>
> O.R.R. wrote:
>> Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their tiny
>> systems.
>>
>> I know with humans, they recommend probiotics or natural bacteria from
>> yogurt to replenish what is lost with antibiotic or medication use.
>> Replenishes the good bacteria in the intestines.
>>
>> I have some eggs I am going to boil for mine.
>>
>> You should have seen them the first time they tasted a bit of pasta!
>>
>> Like candy in front of a baby lol.
>>
>> I do pray Tonka gets better.
>>
>> ((((HUGS))))
>>
>> Samantha C. in OK,
>> SAM is fine too. :)
>>
>> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:M4ydnSa3Qr6nqc_anZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@utma.com...
>>> Hi.
>>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _ ,
>>> losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I just
>>> put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a separate
>>> cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close eye on him.
>>> He does still have an appetite, he was really into the scrambled eggs I
>>> gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I really hope Tonk can
>>> recover from this. At least he really likes the antibiotics (doxycycline
>>> and baytril flavored like marshmallow, yummy) so I don't have to force
>>> that down him. He was cute, grabbing for the syringe when it ran out.
>>>
>>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their
>>> little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see if
>>> he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes more
>>> than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it actually
>>> works.
>>>
>>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly appreciated.
>>> My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Marlo
>>

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Thank you for your suggestions and scritches. I'm going to try the baby
food. I'll be consulting with the long distance vet tomorrow (he's the
rat guy) and then taking Tonka to our vet which is 50 miles away. Here's
the letter I'm faxing to the long distance vet:


To: Dr. Duke
From: Marlo Miller
RE: Tonka the rat

Hi Dr. Duke.
We have another sick rat. Tonka, age about 2 years and a few months.
Late last week he started getting excess red discharge from his nose, so
much that the insides of his front arms were red from cleaning his face.
He lost weight and was lethargic. We moved him into his own, smaller
cage on Friday. He is not drinking water. He is still sort of eating but
not like he should. A little bit of yogurt, a piece of melon, a small
piece of corn cob, etc. Weight when healthy last time we weighed was
650g on 8/15. On 11/27 he was 625, on 11/29 609, on 11/30 600 but on
12/3 he was back up to 623. I've been trying to give him enrofloxacin
..5 ml 2X a day. Concentration is 5mg/mL. But he can't be fooled twice so
this has been more than difficult.

1.What medicine should I be giving him?
2.What is a more concentrated solution of any of the medicines so I
don't have to get so much down him? I'd like to be able to get in a few
drops and have that be his dose.
3.Could I have my vet inject medicine?
4.Since I live 50 miles away from my vet, could I have the vet teach me
how to inject medicine?
5.Should I have my vet inject fluids?
6.What do you think this is?
7.What else can we be doing?

Tonka has been very healthy his whole life, other than a bout with
mites. He was in the same room with Chewie, who had the same red
discharge and lethargy before we put her to sleep, but not in the same
cage. Other rats appear healthy.

Thank you very much and I really appreciate your willingness to give us
advice long-distance.


O.R.R. wrote:
> I know stage 1 squash baby food is high in water content if you haven't
> tried it.
>
> My rats love it.
>
> Worth a try :)
>
> Keep us updated.
>
> Samantha C. in OK
>
> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uNWdnaf4m4tsWMnanZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@utma.com...
>> Thank you for the nice thoughts.
>>
>> Well, Tonka can be fooled once with medication, but not twice. He
>> didn't take it from a syringe the second time. So he took some from a
>> piece of bread. But not after that. Then he took it on a donut. But
>> not after that. Tonight, I had to force it into his mouth, and I know
>> we didn't get the full amount down him. And I worry about the stress
>> that puts on him, all that fighting and stuff.
>>
>> He is not drinking water. He is kind of eating. He's had half a piece
>> of pineapple tonight, about a half teaspoon of yogurt with echinacea
>> mixed in and a few bites of egg. He has gained 20 grams in the last
>> three days so that's encouraging, but he is a lot more lethargic
>> today. Last night, he really grabbed and chowed down on a small piece
>> of a cob of corn and he had a piece of honeydew. He is not interested
>> in his regular rat pellets at all.
>>
>> His eyes look even more tired tonight. I took him out earlier and he
>> just laid still in my arms. Not something he would normally do.
>>
>> O.R.R. wrote:
>>> Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their
>>> tiny systems.
>>>
>>> I know with humans, they recommend probiotics or natural bacteria
>>> from yogurt to replenish what is lost with antibiotic or medication
>>> use. Replenishes the good bacteria in the intestines.
>>>
>>> I have some eggs I am going to boil for mine.
>>>
>>> You should have seen them the first time they tasted a bit of pasta!
>>>
>>> Like candy in front of a baby lol.
>>>
>>> I do pray Tonka gets better.
>>>
>>> ((((HUGS))))
>>>
>>> Samantha C. in OK,
>>> SAM is fine too. :)
>>>
>>> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:M4ydnSa3Qr6nqc_anZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@utma.com...
>>>> Hi.
>>>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>>>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _
>>>> , losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I
>>>> just put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a
>>>> separate cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close
>>>> eye on him. He does still have an appetite, he was really into the
>>>> scrambled eggs I gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I
>>>> really hope Tonk can recover from this. At least he really likes the
>>>> antibiotics (doxycycline and baytril flavored like marshmallow,
>>>> yummy) so I don't have to force that down him. He was cute, grabbing
>>>> for the syringe when it ran out.
>>>>
>>>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on
>>>> their little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week
>>>> and see if he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats,
>>>> it takes more than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness,
>>>> if it actually works.
>>>>
>>>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly
>>>> appreciated. My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Marlo
>>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Not many vets will let you do it, but I had a vet once who let me have the
medication, syringes and needles so I could inject the antibiotics, after
she'd shown me how to do it. This particular rat was very weak and
lethargic, wouldn't eat, especially not something with medications in it,
and only experienced a spurt of energy when I was trying to syringe some
medication into her mouth. It caused her a great deal of distress, whereas
when I started injecting the drugs she didn't struggle at all, let alone
squeak.

If Tonka gets so ill he won't eat or drink, and syringe-feeding him the
drugs is very stressful for him and he struggles so he doesn't get the
right dose, it might be worth finding out if your vet will teach you how to
do injections.

Rosemary
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

"Rosemary" <mentally_subnormal DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99FC2441FE76Crosemaryharkerhotmai@80.5.182.99...
> I had a vet once who let me have the
> medication, syringes and needles so I could inject the antibiotics,
> after
> she'd shown me how to do it.

My Vets always let me have injectable medication since they taught me
how to do proper injections.
I started on a piece of cloth and an empty syringe so the vet could see
my technique then moved on to saline into one of my lads.

I don't see as it will be a problem because most Vets will happily
prescribe injectable medication to people with diabetic animals once the
owner has been trained.

One thing I have learned is not to inject rats in the scruff, inject in
the flanks instead and alternate side to side.
Firstly is the scruff skin is a bit thinner and can get damaged but the
flanks are a bit thicker and there is a larger area of skin to inject in
to.
Secondly the flanks are a lot cleaner. When a rat grooms they actually
groom clean their flanks but the scruff just gets a wipe over with a
paw.

HTH

Scritches to Tonka.
--
Ratty Kisses

Jackie
Ably Hindered by The Buck House Crew

"Behavioral psychology is the science of pulling habits out of rats."
Dr. Douglas Busch
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Hi all.

Tonka had a large mass in his abdomen, on the right side. Likely had
invaded other organs. They couldn't know if it was operable until they
got in there, and with the shape he was in, surviving surgery was not
very good odds either. So I chose to put Tonka to sleep before he wasted
away even more and his organs began shutting down. I'm so very sad
tonight. I loved that little guy so much. I'm going to miss him
terribly. There will never be another rat like him.

What do you guys know about cancer-causing agents for rats? I just want
to make extra sure there's nothing in our home or food that would have
precipitated this. I know, cancer sometimes just happens. But just in
case.... We use aspen bedding on the floor of the cage, pieces of new
carpet on the shelves of the cage, clean the cages with mild solution of
vinegar and water, give them bottled water to drink, lab pellets for
food, fruits, veggies, bread, crackers and occassionally meat, eggs and
sweet stuff for treats. (No more sweet stuff at all.)

This has been a rough few weeks for me. Chewie then Tonka. I can't take
this! We have 4 more rats. Three of them or about 2 and a few months,
one is 1 and a few months. I feel so frustrated it just feels like one
of my rat gets sick, and I try to help, but it dies anyway. I go into
crazy panic mode now when I suspect anything. My step-son is even
freaking out and weighed our other boy (I guess he's our last boy)
Buster, and thought he had lost weight, but then realized he just read
the display wrong.

So where did the term "Rainbow Bridge" come from? As I was holding
Tonka, waiting for the anesthetic to take effect,which took a long time,
I was telling him that in rat heaven, the hammocks are perfect. Tonka
was the official hammock inspector and if the hammock, made from a jean
leg, was not perfect, he'd get depressed.

Well, anyway, I'm gonna play with the girls now and very paranoidedly
(is that a word?) watch them, and watch for symptoms.

Thanks,
Marlo

Marlo wrote:
> Thank you for your suggestions and scritches. I'm going to try the baby
> food. I'll be consulting with the long distance vet tomorrow (he's the
> rat guy) and then taking Tonka to our vet which is 50 miles away. Here's
> the letter I'm faxing to the long distance vet:
>
>
> To: Dr. Duke
> From: Marlo Miller
> RE: Tonka the rat
>
> Hi Dr. Duke.
> We have another sick rat. Tonka, age about 2 years and a few months.
> Late last week he started getting excess red discharge from his nose, so
> much that the insides of his front arms were red from cleaning his face.
> He lost weight and was lethargic. We moved him into his own, smaller
> cage on Friday. He is not drinking water. He is still sort of eating but
> not like he should. A little bit of yogurt, a piece of melon, a small
> piece of corn cob, etc. Weight when healthy last time we weighed was
> 650g on 8/15. On 11/27 he was 625, on 11/29 609, on 11/30 600 but on
> 12/3 he was back up to 623. I've been trying to give him enrofloxacin
> .5 ml 2X a day. Concentration is 5mg/mL. But he can't be fooled twice so
> this has been more than difficult.
>
> 1.What medicine should I be giving him?
> 2.What is a more concentrated solution of any of the medicines so I
> don't have to get so much down him? I'd like to be able to get in a few
> drops and have that be his dose.
> 3.Could I have my vet inject medicine?
> 4.Since I live 50 miles away from my vet, could I have the vet teach me
> how to inject medicine?
> 5.Should I have my vet inject fluids?
> 6.What do you think this is?
> 7.What else can we be doing?
>
> Tonka has been very healthy his whole life, other than a bout with
> mites. He was in the same room with Chewie, who had the same red
> discharge and lethargy before we put her to sleep, but not in the same
> cage. Other rats appear healthy.
>
> Thank you very much and I really appreciate your willingness to give us
> advice long-distance.
>
>
> O.R.R. wrote:
>> I know stage 1 squash baby food is high in water content if you
>> haven't tried it.
>>
>> My rats love it.
>>
>> Worth a try :)
>>
>> Keep us updated.
>>
>> Samantha C. in OK
>>
>> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:uNWdnaf4m4tsWMnanZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@utma.com...
>>> Thank you for the nice thoughts.
>>>
>>> Well, Tonka can be fooled once with medication, but not twice. He
>>> didn't take it from a syringe the second time. So he took some from a
>>> piece of bread. But not after that. Then he took it on a donut. But
>>> not after that. Tonight, I had to force it into his mouth, and I know
>>> we didn't get the full amount down him. And I worry about the stress
>>> that puts on him, all that fighting and stuff.
>>>
>>> He is not drinking water. He is kind of eating. He's had half a piece
>>> of pineapple tonight, about a half teaspoon of yogurt with echinacea
>>> mixed in and a few bites of egg. He has gained 20 grams in the last
>>> three days so that's encouraging, but he is a lot more lethargic
>>> today. Last night, he really grabbed and chowed down on a small
>>> piece of a cob of corn and he had a piece of honeydew. He is not
>>> interested in his regular rat pellets at all.
>>>
>>> His eyes look even more tired tonight. I took him out earlier and he
>>> just laid still in my arms. Not something he would normally do.
>>>
>>> O.R.R. wrote:
>>>> Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their
>>>> tiny systems.
>>>>
>>>> I know with humans, they recommend probiotics or natural bacteria
>>>> from yogurt to replenish what is lost with antibiotic or medication
>>>> use. Replenishes the good bacteria in the intestines.
>>>>
>>>> I have some eggs I am going to boil for mine.
>>>>
>>>> You should have seen them the first time they tasted a bit of pasta!
>>>>
>>>> Like candy in front of a baby lol.
>>>>
>>>> I do pray Tonka gets better.
>>>>
>>>> ((((HUGS))))
>>>>
>>>> Samantha C. in OK,
>>>> SAM is fine too. :)
>>>>
>>>> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:M4ydnSa3Qr6nqc_anZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@utma.com...
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>>>>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it
>>>>> _ , losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes.
>>>>> I just put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a
>>>>> separate cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a
>>>>> close eye on him. He does still have an appetite, he was really
>>>>> into the scrambled eggs I gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand
>>>>> this! I really hope Tonk can recover from this. At least he really
>>>>> likes the antibiotics (doxycycline and baytril flavored like
>>>>> marshmallow, yummy) so I don't have to force that down him. He was
>>>>> cute, grabbing for the syringe when it ran out.
>>>>>
>>>>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on
>>>>> their little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week
>>>>> and see if he's doing better. It seems like with these little
>>>>> rats, it takes more than just a week on antibiotics to kick their
>>>>> illness, if it actually works.
>>>>>
>>>>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly
>>>>> appreciated. My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Marlo
>>>>
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

I'm so sorry about Tonka.

I really think that when it comes to cancer and rats, it's ultimately
due to genetics, their short lifespan and their fast metabolism. It's
sad and awful I know! It sounds like Tonka had something similar to
what my beautiful rat Crackers had.

((((Marlo))))

Dewi
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Marlo,

I am so sorry to here of your loss.

Sometimes it does seem fruitless when you do the right thing,take them to
the vet to get treated, and they die no matter how hard you try.

He is happier I am sure and just waiting to see you again one day.
I like to think that God lets our passed loved ones take a peek on our lives
just so they can see how we are doing. If only we could do the same for
them....I wonder about "higher" happiness....

Did you get a chance to try the stage 1 squash?

Either way, It's a healthy treat for any rattie..

As far as cancer causing or carcinogenic chemicals/ingredients,
I will post some links here in a few as my browser is acting up and I
need to reboot.

(((HUGS))))

Samantha C. in OK

"Marlo" <marlolovesrats RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vuOdnU0KHbFnxcranZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@utma.com...
> Hi all.
>
> Tonka had a large mass in his abdomen, on the right side. Likely had
> invaded other organs. They couldn't know if it was operable until they got
> in there, and with the shape he was in, surviving surgery was not very
> good odds either. So I chose to put Tonka to sleep before he wasted away
> even more and his organs began shutting down. I'm so very sad tonight. I
> loved that little guy so much. I'm going to miss him terribly. There will
> never be another rat like him.
>
> What do you guys know about cancer-causing agents for rats? I just want to
> make extra sure there's nothing in our home or food that would have
> precipitated this. I know, cancer sometimes just happens. But just in
> case.... We use aspen bedding on the floor of the cage, pieces of new
> carpet on the shelves of the cage, clean the cages with mild solution of
> vinegar and water, give them bottled water to drink, lab pellets for food,
> fruits, veggies, bread, crackers and occassionally meat, eggs and sweet
> stuff for treats. (No more sweet stuff at all.)
>
> This has been a rough few weeks for me. Chewie then Tonka. I can't take
> this! We have 4 more rats. Three of them or about 2 and a few months, one
> is 1 and a few months. I feel so frustrated it just feels like one of my
> rat gets sick, and I try to help, but it dies anyway. I go into crazy
> panic mode now when I suspect anything. My step-son is even freaking out
> and weighed our other boy (I guess he's our last boy) Buster, and thought
> he had lost weight, but then realized he just read the display wrong.
>
> So where did the term "Rainbow Bridge" come from? As I was holding Tonka,
> waiting for the anesthetic to take effect,which took a long time, I was
> telling him that in rat heaven, the hammocks are perfect. Tonka was the
> official hammock inspector and if the hammock, made from a jean leg, was
> not perfect, he'd get depressed.
>
> Well, anyway, I'm gonna play with the girls now and very paranoidedly (is
> that a word?) watch them, and watch for symptoms.
>
> Thanks,
> Marlo
>
> Marlo wrote:
>> Thank you for your suggestions and scritches. I'm going to try the baby
>> food. I'll be consulting with the long distance vet tomorrow (he's the
>> rat guy) and then taking Tonka to our vet which is 50 miles away. Here's
>> the letter I'm faxing to the long distance vet:
>>
>>
>> To: Dr. Duke
>> From: Marlo Miller
>> RE: Tonka the rat
>>
>> Hi Dr. Duke.
>> We have another sick rat. Tonka, age about 2 years and a few months. Late
>> last week he started getting excess red discharge from his nose, so much
>> that the insides of his front arms were red from cleaning his face. He
>> lost weight and was lethargic. We moved him into his own, smaller cage on
>> Friday. He is not drinking water. He is still sort of eating but not like
>> he should. A little bit of yogurt, a piece of melon, a small piece of
>> corn cob, etc. Weight when healthy last time we weighed was 650g on 8/15.
>> On 11/27 he was 625, on 11/29 609, on 11/30 600 but on 12/3 he was back
>> up to 623. I've been trying to give him enrofloxacin .5 ml 2X a day.
>> Concentration is 5mg/mL. But he can't be fooled twice so this has been
>> more than difficult.
>>
>> 1.What medicine should I be giving him?
>> 2.What is a more concentrated solution of any of the medicines so I don't
>> have to get so much down him? I'd like to be able to get in a few drops
>> and have that be his dose.
>> 3.Could I have my vet inject medicine?
>> 4.Since I live 50 miles away from my vet, could I have the vet teach me
>> how to inject medicine?
>> 5.Should I have my vet inject fluids?
>> 6.What do you think this is?
>> 7.What else can we be doing?
>>
>> Tonka has been very healthy his whole life, other than a bout with mites.
>> He was in the same room with Chewie, who had the same red discharge and
>> lethargy before we put her to sleep, but not in the same cage. Other rats
>> appear healthy.
>>
>> Thank you very much and I really appreciate your willingness to give us
>> advice long-distance.
>>
>>
>> O.R.R. wrote:
>>> I know stage 1 squash baby food is high in water content if you haven't
>>> tried it.
>>>
>>> My rats love it.
>>>
>>> Worth a try :)
>>>
>>> Keep us updated.
>>>
>>> Samantha C. in OK
>>>
>>> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uNWdnaf4m4tsWMnanZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@utma.com...
>>>> Thank you for the nice thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Well, Tonka can be fooled once with medication, but not twice. He
>>>> didn't take it from a syringe the second time. So he took some from a
>>>> piece of bread. But not after that. Then he took it on a donut. But not
>>>> after that. Tonight, I had to force it into his mouth, and I know we
>>>> didn't get the full amount down him. And I worry about the stress that
>>>> puts on him, all that fighting and stuff.
>>>>
>>>> He is not drinking water. He is kind of eating. He's had half a piece
>>>> of pineapple tonight, about a half teaspoon of yogurt with echinacea
>>>> mixed in and a few bites of egg. He has gained 20 grams in the last
>>>> three days so that's encouraging, but he is a lot more lethargic today.
>>>> Last night, he really grabbed and chowed down on a small piece of a cob
>>>> of corn and he had a piece of honeydew. He is not interested in his
>>>> regular rat pellets at all.
>>>>
>>>> His eyes look even more tired tonight. I took him out earlier and he
>>>> just laid still in my arms. Not something he would normally do.
>>>>
>>>> O.R.R. wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their
>>>>> tiny systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know with humans, they recommend probiotics or natural bacteria from
>>>>> yogurt to replenish what is lost with antibiotic or medication use.
>>>>> Replenishes the good bacteria in the intestines.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some eggs I am going to boil for mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should have seen them the first time they tasted a bit of pasta!
>>>>>
>>>>> Like candy in front of a baby lol.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do pray Tonka gets better.
>>>>>
>>>>> ((((HUGS))))
>>>>>
>>>>> Samantha C. in OK,
>>>>> SAM is fine too. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> "Marlo" <marlolovesrats RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:M4ydnSa3Qr6nqc_anZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@utma.com...
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>>>>>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _
>>>>>> , losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I
>>>>>> just put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a
>>>>>> separate cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close
>>>>>> eye on him. He does still have an appetite, he was really into the
>>>>>> scrambled eggs I gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I
>>>>>> really hope Tonk can recover from this. At least he really likes the
>>>>>> antibiotics (doxycycline and baytril flavored like marshmallow,
>>>>>> yummy) so I don't have to force that down him. He was cute, grabbing
>>>>>> for the syringe when it ran out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their
>>>>>> little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see
>>>>>> if he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes
>>>>>> more than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it
>>>>>> actually works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly
>>>>>> appreciated. My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Marlo
>>>>>
>>>


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Marlo wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> Tonka had a large mass in his abdomen, on the right side. Likely had
> invaded other organs. They couldn't know if it was operable until they
> got in there, and with the shape he was in, surviving surgery was not
> very good odds either. So I chose to put Tonka to sleep before he wasted
> away even more and his organs began shutting down. I'm so very sad
> tonight. I loved that little guy so much. I'm going to miss him
> terribly. There will never be another rat like him.

Aw, I'm very sorry to read this. It's bad enough losing one... :(

> What do you guys know about cancer-causing agents for rats? I just want
> to make extra sure there's nothing in our home or food that would have
> precipitated this. I know, cancer sometimes just happens. But just in
> case.... We use

/snip

You don't mention anything that I know can be harmful & as someone else
has recently said, the Aspen should be safe, though we've never used
wood based bedding. I think you're doing everything correctly. Maybe
someone else can advise, but it could just be bad luck. It seems common
for a lot of ratties :/

All the best.

--
Michael
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

"Marlo" <marlolovesrats DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vuOdnU0KHbFnxcranZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@utma.com...

I'm so sorry for your loss.

{{{{{Hugs}}}}}
--
Ratty Kisses

Jackie
Ably Hindered by The Buck House Crew

"Behavioral psychology is the science of pulling habits out of rats."
Dr. Douglas Busch
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Marlo wrote:
> Hi.
> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _ ,
> losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I just
> put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a separate
> cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close eye on him.
> He does still have an appetite, he was really into the scrambled eggs I
> gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I really hope Tonk can
> recover from this. At least he really likes the antibiotics (doxycycline
> and baytril flavored like marshmallow, yummy) so I don't have to force
> that down him. He was cute, grabbing for the syringe when it ran out.
>
> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their
> little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see if
> he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes more
> than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it actually
> works.
>
> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly appreciated.
> My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>
> Cheers,
> Marlo

Just to put your mind to rest, I've had a few rats on Baytril and
zithromax for long periods of time and post mortems revealed absolutely
no organ damage. If it helps them maintain and recover, I'd have them on
meds. In fact, I've nebulized my rats with Baytril since they are
babies, doing this every 2 months for two weeks and again no effects
except for no more pulmonary abscesses.

Also, consider this, when taking a rat out of his "colony" cage, this
can bring on more stress for the fellow and impede his recovery. I'd
recommend putting him back with his buddies.

--
Joanne
The Rat Shack
www.jorats.com
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Joanne,

Marlo posted on the 5th, above your post, that she
had Tonka put to sleep.

Samantha C. in OK

"Joanne" <j-s.b RemoveThis @removesympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:fj8rb4$kuh$1@news.datemas.de...
> Marlo wrote:
>> Hi.
>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _ ,
>> losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I just
>> put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a separate
>> cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close eye on him.
>> He does still have an appetite, he was really into the scrambled eggs I
>> gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I really hope Tonk can
>> recover from this. At least he really likes the antibiotics (doxycycline
>> and baytril flavored like marshmallow, yummy) so I don't have to force
>> that down him. He was cute, grabbing for the syringe when it ran out.
>>
>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their
>> little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see if
>> he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes more
>> than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it actually
>> works.
>>
>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly appreciated. My
>> vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marlo
>
> Just to put your mind to rest, I've had a few rats on Baytril and
> zithromax for long periods of time and post mortems revealed absolutely no
> organ damage. If it helps them maintain and recover, I'd have them on
> meds. In fact, I've nebulized my rats with Baytril since they are babies,
> doing this every 2 months for two weeks and again no effects except for no
> more pulmonary abscesses.
>
> Also, consider this, when taking a rat out of his "colony" cage, this can
> bring on more stress for the fellow and impede his recovery. I'd recommend
> putting him back with his buddies.
>
> --
> Joanne
> The Rat Shack
> www.jorats.com


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka 

Thanks for the good info that I will apply to my other rats. My dilemma
about whether to separate or not to separate is this... does the sick
rat have something contagious? Does being with the others make it
harder for him to get plenty of food? I guess the thing is to get them
to the vet right away, so you know what you're dealing with.

It's good to know your rats have not had organ damage from extended
periods of antibiotics. What is the combination of doses and stuff you
nebulize with? I nebulized Chewie once and it seemed to help her, but
the vet only gave me enough saline and gentocin for one time. I still
have lot of albuterol.

It always takes a few days for me to get antibiotics. The ones I have on
hand are outdated now, from October. I wonder about ordering new stuff
just to have it, because you have to jump on each new illness right
away. Or does it actually still work after it's outdated.

I sure do miss my Tonka. He was so squishy and for whatever reason, he
was always so happy to see me. He was perfectly content to sit on my
shoulder.

Thank you everyone for your good wishes and advice. I really appreciate
it so much. Other than my family, nobody in my real life gets it, they
think it's just a rat.
-Marlo


Joanne wrote:
> Marlo wrote:
>> Hi.
>> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge
>> (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _ ,
>> losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I just
>> put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a separate
>> cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close eye on
>> him. He does still have an appetite, he was really into the scrambled
>> eggs I gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I really hope
>> Tonk can recover from this. At least he really likes the antibiotics
>> (doxycycline and baytril flavored like marshmallow, yummy) so I don't
>> have to force that down him. He was cute, grabbing for the syringe
>> when it ran out.
>>
>> My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their
>> little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see if
>> he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes
>> more than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it
>> actually works.
>>
>> So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly appreciated.
>> My vet is really not a rat expert at all.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marlo
>
> Just to put your mind to rest, I've had a few rats on Baytril and
> zithromax for long periods of time and post mortems revealed absolutely
> no organ damage. If it helps them maintain and recover, I'd have them on
> meds. In fact, I've nebulized my rats with Baytril since they are
> babies, doing this every 2 months for two weeks and again no effects
> except for no more pulmonary abscesses.
>
> Also, consider this, when taking a rat out of his "colony" cage, this
> can bring on more stress for the fellow and impede his recovery. I'd
> recommend putting him back with his buddies.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Another rat, another illness... Tonka