high ammonia and dead angels

erik w wrote:

> This tank had no water changes for over half a year, only
> water added. At some point I went to get the water test mostly because
> everyone talks about water changes being important and I had figured
> that the tank must have really bad water. Turns out I had great water
> conditions, no trace of ammonia. I decide to go ahead and change 20% of
> the water afterwards. After the change I had the water tested and ended
> up with ph becoming really acidic. So I had to purchase supplies to
> correct it.

and this...

> I also suspect that you are cleaning your gravel with each water change.
> Cleaning the gravel with each water change removes everything from the
> gravel, includeing bacteria.

Hey Eric, Thanks for taking the time to post. All of us know a little
about fish, and none of us know everything so it's great to hear from
everybody. Since the original poster is seemingly having some newbie
problems, I felt pretty strongly about clarifying some of the above
statements. The bit about the water being perfect because it had no
ammonia... All the ammonia test does if verify that there is no
ammonia, which is an indication that the tank has cycled, that's all.
After 6 months with no water changes, depending on fish load and plant
mass, the nitrate readings for that water were probably over 200ppm.
Read up on "old tank syndrome" and you may find an explanation for the
pH crash too.

The other bit about the gravel cleaning... A simple gravel vac will
not remove the bacteria. Using a gravel vac will remove junk, but not
the bacteria. The bacteria is firmly stuck to all surfaces of the
setup. When I was a kid I used to put the fish in the big mixing bowl
and clean the tank in the bath tub. I'd wash the gravel and tank with
hot soapy water. Now THAT will kill all the beneficial bacteria!
Gosh, now a wonder how I ever kept a fish beyond a few months. Hmmmmm,
looking back.......

sincerly,
steve
 >> Stay informed about: high ammonia and dead angels 

default wrote:
> erik w wrote:
>
>
>>This tank had no water changes for over half a year, only
>>water added. At some point I went to get the water test mostly because
>>everyone talks about water changes being important and I had figured
>>that the tank must have really bad water. Turns out I had great water
>>conditions, no trace of ammonia. I decide to go ahead and change 20% of
>>the water afterwards. After the change I had the water tested and ended
>>up with ph becoming really acidic. So I had to purchase supplies to
>>correct it.
>
>
> and this...
>
>
>>I also suspect that you are cleaning your gravel with each water change.
>>Cleaning the gravel with each water change removes everything from the
>>gravel, includeing bacteria.
>
>
> Hey Eric, Thanks for taking the time to post. All of us know a little
> about fish, and none of us know everything so it's great to hear from
> everybody. Since the original poster is seemingly having some newbie
> problems, I felt pretty strongly about clarifying some of the above
> statements. The bit about the water being perfect because it had no
> ammonia... All the ammonia test does if verify that there is no
> ammonia, which is an indication that the tank has cycled, that's all.
> After 6 months with no water changes, depending on fish load and plant
> mass, the nitrate readings for that water were probably over 200ppm.
> Read up on "old tank syndrome" and you may find an explanation for the
> pH crash too.
>
> The other bit about the gravel cleaning... A simple gravel vac will
> not remove the bacteria. Using a gravel vac will remove junk, but not
> the bacteria. The bacteria is firmly stuck to all surfaces of the
> setup. When I was a kid I used to put the fish in the big mixing bowl
> and clean the tank in the bath tub. I'd wash the gravel and tank with
> hot soapy water. Now THAT will kill all the beneficial bacteria!
> Gosh, now a wonder how I ever kept a fish beyond a few months. Hmmmmm,
> looking back.......
>
> sincerly,
> steve


I would not argue against the idea of bacteria adhering to the surface
and not being removed with gravel cleaning. I should have mentioned that
I was not sure of it was the case. Guess I went on about too much and
did not remember include the phrase "might be". Sorry.

The water test was actually performed at a local pet store where they
said they would test for anything wrong with the water. It was the store
that test the first time and second. I am not actually sure of
everything they tested for but I believe that they would have tested for
nitrate. I was at the time concerned most about the ammonia and so I
specifically asked. The pet store also said something about the tap
water in the area being acidic at the time. I don't really know if they
knew it or they were making it up. I don't think 20% water change would
make a large difference in ph, especially if it was allowed to be
classified drinkable. So, yes, I suspect that you are correct in saying
it would be old tank syndrome.


Erik
 >> Stay informed about: high ammonia and dead angels