Table manners and timing

BethInAK wrote:
>
> My parents dog was always a lousy eater. He came that way but they
> didnt' help it much with free feeding and cooking him special meals.


I'd say that free feeding and cooking special meals were two different
things and contradictory ones. With free feeding, you leave the dog
unlimited kibble and ignore when and how much the dog chooses to eat.
When the dog finishes a bowl, you refill it when you notice that it's
empty. You DON'T go out of your way to make the food more appealing.
Plain dry kibble works best.


Specially cooked meals including chicken livers are another story
altogether.


> I think its a social thing. She likes to eat with you there.


Now that you mention it, I can think of one exception to what I wrote
about her not eating when we're not there. I'm not sure how long we'd
had her, but I'm thinking this was years ago, pretty close to when she
was new to us. A big bag of Purina dog chow was standing upright in the
kitchen. When we fed her, we dipped a scoop into the bag.


One day we came home and found the bag had fallen over. We guess she
didn't tip it over on purpose since she's never shown that sort of
problem solving ability for anything else. (She gets bored with kongs
quickly and gives up on them before reaching the goodies inside. She
has trouble figuring out how to reach a biscuit when it lands in a hard
to reach place. One time I wrote about how she couldn't get her ball
when it saw it go into the recycling bin. She couldn't figure out that
she could tip the bin over.)


So we come home, see the tipped over bag, don't see any spilled purinas
on the floor, and conclude momentarily that nothing spilled out.


A moment later, I say, "Jim, do you notice anything different about the
shape of the dog?"


And we look, and there's Cubbe with a definite rounded poof shape to her
sides. I worred about bloat, looked up symptoms on the web, realized
that she had none of them, and made sure to walk her extra time over the
next two days. She was fine.


We bought a plastic box with a sealable lid for the Purina.


--Lia
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:rsydnQwTMMTcDjbanZ2dnUVZ_ualnZ2d@comcast.com...

> And we look, and there's Cubbe with a definite rounded poof shape to her
> sides. I worred about bloat, looked up symptoms on the web, realized that
> she had none of them, and made sure to walk her extra time over the next
> two days. She was fine.


do I remember this event? i think I do.
I remember it was funny because she's not a food hound.
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:rsydnQwTMMTcDjbanZ2dnUVZ_ualnZ2d@comcast.com...
> BethInAK wrote:
>>
>> My parents dog was always a lousy eater. He came that way but they
>> didnt' help it much with free feeding and cooking him special meals.
>
>
> I'd say that free feeding and cooking special meals were two different
> things and contradictory ones. With free feeding, you leave the dog
> unlimited kibble and ignore when and how much the dog chooses to eat. When
> the dog finishes a bowl, you refill it when you notice that it's empty.
> You DON'T go out of your way to make the food more appealing. Plain dry
> kibble works best.

My family did BOTH. And Jasper both ate his home cooked meals and his
kibble that sat in the bowl all day long.


> Specially cooked meals including chicken livers are another story
> altogether.

the chicken livers were for a very sick dog who wouldnt' otherwise take his
medicine.
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

"BethInAK" <bethinak.DeleteThis@clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:13qmp15knknaa65@corp.supernews.com...
(snip)
> My parents dog was always a lousy eater. He came that way but they didnt'
> help it much with free feeding and cooking him special meals. He was also
> a very social eater - he liked to eat when others were eating. At the end
> of his life he had cardiac issues and giving him his meds was a bear. I
> often went to stay at their house in Seattle because I was the onyly one
> who could get him to eat besides my parents. Generally, in the AM, I'd
> get up and cook some chicken livers in butter to put the pills in. Mike
> loved these chicken livers and after a couple of days of this routine
> Jasper refused to eat the chicken livers unless Mike was there. He'd look
> at them, and slurp and then look longingly down the hall where mike was
> sleeping. I'd wake mike up and he'd come in and jasper would happily eat
> the chicken livers with mike.
>
> I thinik its a social thing. She likes to eat with you there.
I love Jasper stories.

I can't imagine cooking, let along eating, chicken livers in the morning.
The things we do for our dogs, that at the time seen reasonable, even
ordinary, take on a whole new meaning in retrospect.

Good for you, treating Jasper with such loving respect.
Karla
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

filly wrote:
> "BethInAK" <bethinak.DeleteThis@clearwire.net> wrote in message
> news:13qmp15knknaa65@corp.supernews.com...
> (snip)
>
>>My parents dog was always a lousy eater. He came that way but they didnt'
>>help it much with free feeding and cooking him special meals. He was also
>>a very social eater - he liked to eat when others were eating. At the end
>>of his life he had cardiac issues and giving him his meds was a bear. I
>>often went to stay at their house in Seattle because I was the onyly one
>>who could get him to eat besides my parents. Generally, in the AM, I'd
>>get up and cook some chicken livers in butter to put the pills in. Mike
>>loved these chicken livers and after a couple of days of this routine
>>Jasper refused to eat the chicken livers unless Mike was there. He'd look
>>at them, and slurp and then look longingly down the hall where mike was
>>sleeping. I'd wake mike up and he'd come in and jasper would happily eat
>>the chicken livers with mike.
>>
>>I thinik its a social thing. She likes to eat with you there.
>
> I love Jasper stories.
>
> I can't imagine cooking, let along eating, chicken livers in the morning.
> The things we do for our dogs, that at the time seen reasonable, even
> ordinary, take on a whole new meaning in retrospect.

It's a slippery slope. I had a geriatric female BC who had pulled
through several health crisis's with the help of early medical
treatment, devoted nursing care and nutritional support.

When she began to go downhill for what turned out to be the last time, I
wiped Nutrical onto the roof of her mouth and offered her blood koolaid*
to drink. I made treats for her out of liver and pumpkin and whole
wheat flour.

When she showed interest in the chicken I had made for dinner I cooked
chicken thigh filets seasoned with lemon pepper and garlic for her. I
spoon-fed her yogurt. I enticed her to eat by putting her food on a
plate and sitting down with it at the dining room table. When she came
mooching around I would feed Molly her dinner one tidbit or spoonful at
a time while the youngsters looked on enviously. She ate more when they
were around, if only to make sure they didn't get her leftovers.

And then even those things began to lose their appeal. I had to hand
feed her to get her to eat. I noticed that she ate more willingly when
I bit off tiny bits of chicken for her. And from there it was a hop,
skip and a jump to pre chewing her food for her.

At that point I finally had to accept what was happening, that it was
time, that it had been time for a while now. Multiple systems failure.
We'd seen the vet, I'd been told, this was not new news. She'd had
bad times before but we were always able to help her rally. And the
previous successes made it really hard to say when enough was enough.



* A tablespoon of meat juice from a carton of chicken livers, mixed with
a bowl of water.
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

"filly" <johnhenry.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3NLqj.4076$eD3.52@trndny05...
>
> "BethInAK" <bethinak.DeleteThis@clearwire.net> wrote in message
> news:13qmp15knknaa65@corp.supernews.com...
> (snip)
>> My parents dog was always a lousy eater. He came that way but they
>> didnt' help it much with free feeding and cooking him special meals. He
>> was also a very social eater - he liked to eat when others were eating.
>> At the end of his life he had cardiac issues and giving him his meds was
>> a bear. I often went to stay at their house in Seattle because I was the
>> onyly one who could get him to eat besides my parents. Generally, in the
>> AM, I'd get up and cook some chicken livers in butter to put the pills
>> in. Mike loved these chicken livers and after a couple of days of this
>> routine Jasper refused to eat the chicken livers unless Mike was there.
>> He'd look at them, and slurp and then look longingly down the hall where
>> mike was sleeping. I'd wake mike up and he'd come in and jasper would
>> happily eat the chicken livers with mike.
>>
>> I thinik its a social thing. She likes to eat with you there.
> I love Jasper stories.
>
> I can't imagine cooking, let along eating, chicken livers in the morning.
> The things we do for our dogs, that at the time seen reasonable, even
> ordinary, take on a whole new meaning in retrospect.

I wouldn't eat the chicken livers. I just cooked them. In butter no less.
Mike however, loves chicken livers. He'd steal jaspers - thats how Jazz got
used to eating with him.
I do eat chopped chicken livers though. Yum.

> Good for you, treating Jasper with such loving respect.

He'd have been dead if we didn't - he wouldnt' take his meds any other way.
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

"Kathleen" <khhfmdeletethis DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote in message
news:WUMqj.207$MW.160@newsfe06.lga...
> filly wrote:
>> "BethInAK" <bethinak DeleteThis @clearwire.net> wrote in message
>> news:13qmp15knknaa65@corp.supernews.com...
>> (snip)
>>
>>>My parents dog was always a lousy eater. He came that way but they
>>>didnt' help it much with free feeding and cooking him special meals. He
>>>was also a very social eater - he liked to eat when others were eating.
>>>At the end of his life he had cardiac issues and giving him his meds was
>>>a bear. I often went to stay at their house in Seattle because I was the
>>>onyly one who could get him to eat besides my parents. Generally, in the
>>>AM, I'd get up and cook some chicken livers in butter to put the pills
>>>in. Mike loved these chicken livers and after a couple of days of this
>>>routine Jasper refused to eat the chicken livers unless Mike was there.
>>>He'd look at them, and slurp and then look longingly down the hall where
>>>mike was sleeping. I'd wake mike up and he'd come in and jasper would
>>>happily eat the chicken livers with mike.
>>>
>>>I thinik its a social thing. She likes to eat with you there.
>>
>> I love Jasper stories.
>>
>> I can't imagine cooking, let along eating, chicken livers in the morning.
>> The things we do for our dogs, that at the time seen reasonable, even
>> ordinary, take on a whole new meaning in retrospect.
>
> It's a slippery slope. I had a geriatric female BC who had pulled through
> several health crisis's with the help of early medical treatment, devoted
> nursing care and nutritional support.
>
> When she began to go downhill for what turned out to be the last time, I
> wiped Nutrical onto the roof of her mouth and offered her blood koolaid*
> to drink. I made treats for her out of liver and pumpkin and whole wheat
> flour.
>
> When she showed interest in the chicken I had made for dinner I cooked
> chicken thigh filets seasoned with lemon pepper and garlic for her. I
> spoon-fed her yogurt. I enticed her to eat by putting her food on a plate
> and sitting down with it at the dining room table. When she came mooching
> around I would feed Molly her dinner one tidbit or spoonful at a time
> while the youngsters looked on enviously. She ate more when they were
> around, if only to make sure they didn't get her leftovers.
>
> And then even those things began to lose their appeal. I had to hand feed
> her to get her to eat. I noticed that she ate more willingly when I bit
> off tiny bits of chicken for her. And from there it was a hop, skip and a
> jump to pre chewing her food for her.
>
> At that point I finally had to accept what was happening, that it was
> time, that it had been time for a while now. Multiple systems failure.
> We'd seen the vet, I'd been told, this was not new news. She'd had bad
> times before but we were always able to help her rally. And the previous
> successes made it really hard to say when enough was enough.

This isn't unlike what happened with Jasper. Although, he came to us a
fussy eater - he was intravenously fed at the shelter before we adopted him
because he refused to eat. I remember once, I was babysitting him when he
was about a year old and I had my boyfriend over for dinner. I made nice
steaks. He offered Jasper some leftover steak - with the fat on it. I said
"He wont' eat that". John didn't believe me. but Jasper turned up his
nose. He'd eat Burger King burgers but not McDonalds, and very rarely
Wendys. I've always noted this as significant somehow as to where I should
steer my car when I decide to have fast food.

But my parents probably didnt' help at all. And at the end, it became worse
and worse, during his decline when he had no appetite. I think the chicken
liver visit was the last time we saw him.
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

In article <13qndjj87t35731.DeleteThis@corp.supernews.com>,
"BethInAK" <bethinak.DeleteThis@clearwire.net> wrote:

> "Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:rsydnQwTMMTcDjbanZ2dnUVZ_ualnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> > Specially cooked meals including chicken livers are another story
> > altogether.
>
> the chicken livers were for a very sick dog who wouldnt' otherwise take his
> medicine.

Toward the end of Fidget's life, he became very picky about what he
would eat (and he'd never been particularly fussy, so it was a big red
flag when it first started), and David came up with a recipe we called
"Fidget patties". They were quite labor intensive and fairly expensive,
but David knows a lot about nutrition and they were very good for
Fidget, and he would eat them sometimes when nothing else would do. I
don't remember everything that was in them, but there was ground turkey,
vegetables, oatmeal (Scottish oatmeal, I think), and I don't remember
what else. All mixed in a food processor, shaped into patties, and
baked. Sometimes we broke them up into a bowl, sometimes we fed them to
him piece by piece.

I'd do it again for Peanut in a heartbeat if I had to.
--
Kevin Michael Vail    | I would rather have a mind opened by wonder
kevin.DeleteThis@vaildc.net      | than one closed by belief.   -- Gerry Spence
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing 

"BethInAK" <bethinak RemoveThis @clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:13qndjj87t35731@corp.supernews.com...
(snip)
>
> the chicken livers were for a very sick dog who wouldnt' otherwise take
> his medicine.
There is no end to the lengths I would go to in order to get my pets to eat.
I don't care what it takes, what it costs, how foolish it may sound, how
much trouble it is. If it were to benefit them so be it. And if all
avenues fail, I am not above forcing the issue. It's the result I'm after,
and the road traveled to that end is worth every bleeding step along the
way.. To borrow from Michael Ball's sig, "Whatever it takes".
Karla
 >> Stay informed about: Table manners and timing