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Ever hear of William Kohler?

 
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Janet Boss

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Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1641



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>breeds (more info?)

In article <Xns9A0EAC7A453diddydiddynet.RemoveThis@216.196.97.142>, diddy <none>
wrote:

>
> Have they really? i have several

From what I hear, libraries have yielded to pressure to remove them from
the shelves.

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Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

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Melinda Shore

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Since: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4105



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <janet-73DC22.17043322122007 RemoveThis @news.individual.net>,
Janet Boss <janet RemoveThis @bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>From what I hear, libraries have yielded to pressure to remove them from
>the shelves.

This surprised me quite a bit, since libarians tend to
regard themselves as defenders of intellectual freedom (see,
for example, "Banned Books Week") and so I did an online
search and couldn't find anything. As for the books, stuff
goes out of print when the the demand for it vanishes (or
fails to materialize in the first place). Given that the
pendulum has swung towards "positive" dog training it's not
surprising if there's a lot less demand for Koehler There
are tons of used copies of various Koehler books for sale on
Amazon, but not all of them.

I'm skeptical about any kind of book banning going on around
Koehler. I know he's unpopular right now but it's because
of that, and being unable to find yet any evidence to the
contrary, I'd tend to write this one off to plain old market
forces.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore RemoveThis @panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

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Shelly

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Since: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 1585



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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shore RemoveThis @panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in
news:fkk27k$985$1@panix3.panix.com:

> As for the books, stuff goes out of print when the the demand for
> it vanishes (or fails to materialize in the first place).

That's the most likely explanation. Shelf space is limited, and
demand is greater for newer publications.

And then there are folks like Chris, who once commented that he or
some of the folks he worked with had demanded that the local library
take Koehler off their shelves. That sort of thing, I'm sad to say,
happens, though it shouldn't.

Banning, though? I think the ALA frowns on that sort of thing.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
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Melinda Shore

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Since: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4105



(Msg. 19) Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <fkk37g$r69$3@registered.motzarella.org>,
Shelly <scouvrette RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>And then there are folks like Chris, who once commented that he or
>some of the folks he worked with had demanded that the local library
>take Koehler off their shelves.

Oh geeze, you're right - I remember that. I don't remember
whether or not the library went for it, though, do you?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore RemoveThis @panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
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Shelly

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Since: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 1585



(Msg. 20) Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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shore RemoveThis @panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote in news:fkk5b7$pv1$1
@panix3.panix.com:

> Oh geeze, you're right - I remember that. I don't remember
> whether or not the library went for it, though, do you?

I don't recall for sure, but my impression was that he was crowing
about it as a success, so I suspect they did.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
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montana wildhack

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Since: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 1879



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Robin Nuttall

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Since: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 1339



(Msg. 22) Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:24 am
Post subject: Re: Ever hear of William Kohler? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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diddy wrote:

> And although clicker training is useful for many things, it seems most
> useful for lower level stuff. But at some point, it fails. A dog becomes
> immune to all the click reward stuff.. and finds something thatr interests
> it more.

Really. Perhaps you should tell that to Sue Ailsby, who has trained dogs
(and llamas) to very high levels including extremely advanced service
dog work, scent hurdling, flyball, carting, agility, and obedience all
with a clicker. Funny, her dogs don't seem to have found things that
interest them more. Seems the clicker works just fine forever for those
who use it well.

>
> Tuck was a mostly clicker trained dog. .. but he's failed test after
> tracking test because he finds squirrels a lot more fascinating than any
> track, or any cookie I might offer him.

I wouldn't click for tracking, it's one of the few things clicking is
not appropriate for, as tracking is all about the dog's interaction with
scent, not with you. Ditto, I wouldn't click to encourage herding
instinct. A dog has it or he doesn't. Clicking brings the dog to you for
a reward, which will pull the dog from the track. However, clicking
works a treat for gorgeous article indications.

If I was going to use a clicker to discourage the dog from paying
attention to squirrels, I'd be clicking for attention to me then using
the squirrels as a reward. In other words, I'd ask for attention then
release to the squirrels, then ask for attention again. The dog would
learn that paying attention to what I want him to do just might result
in being able to go after squirrels. As a result, I just might get
really intense, focused, excited attention. I can then build duration of
that attention and fade the squirrel reward to an occasional one,
because the act of giving attention becomes self-rewarding.

But then I guess I wouldn't get to come on a newsgroup and brag about
frying my dog. Darn.
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