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Next: FAQ: Fuckwit's beliefs (posted as needed)
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Since: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 166) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:44:29 -0500, Dean Hoffman
>There is one thing in the US that is better than in the UK.
>A judge would probably have to issue a search warrant based
>on probable cause for a government busybody to come lookin'.
>That doesn't apply to inspections for food safety such as checking
>a dairy for compliance with codes.
In the UK animal welfare is taken very seriously indeed. The State
Veterinary Service carries out random inspections on farms with full
power of entry to commercial areas. Latest figures I have seen show
e.g. that about 40% of beef and dairy enterprises on inspection are
found to be in not in full compliance. |
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External
Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 167) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496 DeleteThis @inINebrVALaskaID.com> wrote in message
news:425c41f7$1_1@127.0.0.1...
> There is one thing in the US that is better than in the UK. A
> judge
> would probably have to issue a search warrant based on probable
> cause for a government busybody to come lookin'.
> That doesn't apply to inspections for food safety such as checking
> a dairy for compliance with codes.
>
under EU law a fixed percentage of cattle farmers must be inspected every
gear, (5 or 10% depending upon whether your nations database is reckoned to
be up to scratch)
A proportion of these must be unannounced
under the current reforms, on top of this 1% of ALL farms are to be
inspected every year.
But if any criminality is suspected any farm can be inspected.
With regard to animal welfare, the inspections of some of the larger beef
units can take a week because on a CTS inspection all ear tags must be
checked. This does get livestock wound up and it isn't uncommon for animals
to injure themselves as part of the process
But with the EU the needs of the administration take precedence.
Jim Webster |
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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 168) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb.RemoveThis@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:aaho51h92gfeats2grt4u6k6ndqslav86m@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:44:29 -0500, Dean Hoffman
> >There is one thing in the US that is better than in the UK.
> >A judge would probably have to issue a search warrant based
> >on probable cause for a government busybody to come lookin'.
> >That doesn't apply to inspections for food safety such as checking
> >a dairy for compliance with codes.
>
> In the UK animal welfare is taken very seriously indeed. The State
> Veterinary Service carries out random inspections on farms with full
> power of entry to commercial areas. Latest figures I have seen show
> e.g. that about 40% of beef and dairy enterprises on inspection are
> found to be in not in full compliance.
>
becareful you are not confusing SVS inspections with CTS inspections
undertaken by the RPA. Where do your figures come from
Jim Webster >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 169) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:49 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:10:34 +0100, "Jim Webster"
>"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb.DeleteThis@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:44:29 -0500, Dean Hoffman
>> >There is one thing in the US that is better than in the UK.
>> >A judge would probably have to issue a search warrant based
>> >on probable cause for a government busybody to come lookin'.
>> >That doesn't apply to inspections for food safety such as checking
>> >a dairy for compliance with codes.
>>
>> In the UK animal welfare is taken very seriously indeed. The State
>> Veterinary Service carries out random inspections on farms with full
>> power of entry to commercial areas. Latest figures I have seen show
>> e.g. that about 40% of beef and dairy enterprises on inspection are
>> found to be in not in full compliance.
>>
>becareful you are not confusing SVS inspections with CTS inspections
>undertaken by the RPA.
Look, I am not stupid enough to confuse Animal Welfare inspections,
with Cattle Tracing Scheme inspections undertaken by the Rural Payment
Agency. That honour goes to you, bozo.
>Where do your figures come from
Yes, how's that for an interesting question, of intriguing and
mystifying depth: Where do State Veterinary Service inspection
figures come from? What metal is a gold coin made of? How many
ears has a rabbit. What is 2+2? >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 112
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(Msg. 170) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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dh@. wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:14:16 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
<mary.fisher DeleteThis @zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> It is not to ANY. Coming into existence is not a benefit for the
farm
> >> animals. Ever.
> >
> >Nor is it for humans.
>
> True, but his interest is in promoting acceptance of "ARAs'"
> elimination objective
No, my interest is in providing a proper and logically well founded
reason to oppose "ar", and to demolish your improper and illogical
reason for opposing it. Your reason is junk. Life - basic existence -
is not a benefit to farm animals, and "vegans" aren't "denying" any
benefit to farm animals by wanting them not to exist. The correct and
logically well founded reasons for opposing "ar" have to do with
humans, not animals. That's just how it is, Fuckwit, and you're going
to have to deal with it. NO ONE is going to follow you down Fuckwit's
Alley to your weird religious beliefs about animals and their "souls". >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 409
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(Msg. 171) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:52 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:14:16 +0100, "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher.TakeThisOut@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> It is not to ANY. Coming into existence is not a benefit for the farm
>> animals. Ever.
>
>Nor is it for humans.
True, but his interest is in promoting acceptance of "ARAs'"
elimination objective, so he only refers to farm animals. >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 172) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:52 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<dh@.> wrote in message news:1hcq51tjqi32fjisbki1sffecsoutep2kq@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:14:16 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
<mary.fisher.DeleteThis@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> It is not to ANY. Coming into existence is not a benefit for the farm
> >> animals. Ever.
> >
> >Nor is it for humans.
>
> True,
Then why do you keep saying that coming into existence is a benefit?
Why are you such a liar?
> but his interest is in promoting acceptance of "ARAs'"
> elimination objective, so he only refers to farm animals.
That's another lie and you know it. His interest, and mine, is to continue
the raising of farm animals, since we both consume animal products. Our
secondary interest is disputing the arguments put forth by animal rights
advocates by using rational and reasonable arguments. A trivial interest of
both of us is to eliminate stupid and idiotic arguments put forth by people
like you.Your idiotic argument is that we are doing animals a favour by
raising them for meat. >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Jul 20, 2003
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 173) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:33 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb DeleteThis @inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
>
> Look, I am not stupid enough to confuse Animal Welfare inspections,
> with Cattle Tracing Scheme inspections undertaken by the Rural Payment
> Agency. That honour goes to you, bozo.
I was so tempted to ask what ARE you stupid enough to do but decided against
it.
>
>>Where do your figures come from
>
> Yes, how's that for an interesting question, of intriguing and
> mystifying depth: Where do State Veterinary Service inspection
> figures come from? What metal is a gold coin made of? How many
> ears has a rabbit. What is 2+2?
Have you heard about the contest between the sun and the wind?
Who won? >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Jul 20, 2003
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 174) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:34 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jim Webster" <Jim.TakeThisOut@zerospam.mok.net> wrote in message
news:d3hi26$qta$4@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > our lawyers seem intent on emulating yours but yours are a long way
>> > ahead
>> >> > of
>> >> > ours
>> >> > Perhaps we could start shooting ours now, save trouble later
>> >>
>> >> Ooh yes please, starting with the pair in Downing Street ...
>> >>
>> >
>> > does seem like a very positive idea doesn't it
>>
>> What you doin' tomorrow?
>>
>
> I wonder if we could sell tickets?
I'll print them, you control the queues.
Mary
>
> Jim Webster
>
> >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 409
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(Msg. 175) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 11 Apr 2005 13:26:53 -0700, "Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>dh@. wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:48:56 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy RemoveThis @ph.con> wrote:
>>
>> >dh@. wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:20:08 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy RemoveThis @ph.con>
>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Farm1 wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>"Gene" <Gene RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>"Napalm Heart" <*nospam*@iserv.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>"Rudy Canoza >" <<dumbguy RemoveThis @ph.con> wrote in message
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>No farmers consider that the animals' "getting to
>> >>>>>>>experience life" is worth even a moment's consideration.
>> >>>>>>>They raise animals to make money, and that's the only
>> >>>>>>>reason.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Since they are a financial asset to farmers, livestock are
>well-taken
>> >>>>>>care of.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Ayup. Long is the time I've seen farmers looking for cattle who
>got
>> >>>>>out during a snowstrom, risking life to save some animal and
>this is a
>> >>>>>*common* occurance.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Then, there's the staying up all night, working a new born calf,
>ewe
>> >>>>>or whatever in addition to working a 12 hour (Or longer) day.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Uh-huh, they sure don't care at all...Suuurrreeeeeee
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>LOL.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>You are being mean! People who don't like animals and do not
>live closely
>> >>>>to them can never understand this concept of "care" and won't
>even know what
>> >>>>you are writing about.
>> >>>
>> >>>The idea of farmers caring for their animals isn't hard
>> >>>to grasp. I have no doubt they do. They do NOT,
>> >>>however, breed and raise livestock because they think
>> >>>the animals "benefit" by coming into existence.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Some farm animals benefit from farming
>> >
>> >NO farm animals "benefit" from farming, Fuckwit. You
>> >are wrong. Every farmer whom you lure into this tells
>> >you you're wrong.
>> >
>> >Coming into existence - "getting to experience life",
>> >in your shitty prose -
>>
>> Please feel free to prose it better
>
>Prose is NOT a verb, you uneducated semi-literate goober.
LOL! I knew you couldn't do it Goob, or you would have
done it a long time ago. There's no better way of putting
it, and we know it. Too bad, but wtf...
>> >is not a benefit to farm animals.
>>
>> It is to some,
>
>It is not to ANY. Coming into existence is not a benefit for the farm
>animals. Ever.
Yes, coming into existence is a benefit Goober. BUT!
The experiences in life are not all benefits. You can't
understand the distinction between the two ideas, but
it's there none the less. >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 176) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher.RemoveThis@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:425cf5b5$0$28625$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...
>
> "Jim Webster" <Jim.RemoveThis@zerospam.mok.net> wrote in message
> news:d3hi26$qta$4@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > our lawyers seem intent on emulating yours but yours are a long
way
> >> > ahead
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > ours
> >> >> > Perhaps we could start shooting ours now, save trouble later
> >> >>
> >> >> Ooh yes please, starting with the pair in Downing Street ...
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > does seem like a very positive idea doesn't it
> >>
> >> What you doin' tomorrow?
> >>
> >
> > I wonder if we could sell tickets?
>
> I'll print them, you control the queues.
>
they would certainly sell themselves
Jim Webster >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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External
Since: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 177) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:09 pm
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:33:32 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
>"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb.TakeThisOut@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
>>
>> Look, I am not stupid enough to confuse Animal Welfare inspections,
>> with Cattle Tracing Scheme inspections undertaken by the Rural Payment
>> Agency. That honour goes to you, bozo.
>
>I was so tempted to ask what ARE you stupid enough to do but decided
>against it.
Yes, your predicament is understandable. It might imply an interest
in my person which you don't ever so slightly would like to give an
impression of having. It should be hard enough on you to explain for
yourself why you haven't killfiled me. However, your personal problems
are not generally germane.
>>>Where do your figures come from
>>
>> Yes, how's that for an interesting question, of intriguing and
>> mystifying depth: Where do State Veterinary Service inspection
>> figures come from? What metal is a gold coin made of? How many
>> ears has a rabbit. What is 2+2?
>
>Have you heard about the contest between the sun and the wind?
Yes, it is a classic. I read Aesop when I was 7.
>Who won?
The sun of course. If you have a woman, all fur coat and no trousers
it takes heat to get her to drop the fine coat. The wind at most can
disperse an eventual fishy smell emanating from her. >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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Since: Jul 20, 2003
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 178) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 179) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Gene <Gene DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<p8he51hci6hulm5ichv9chgt6ho2gg8oh5 DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:35:48 -0400, "Napalm Heart" <*nospam*@iserv.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Rudy Canoza >" <<dumbguy DeleteThis @ph.con> wrote in message
> >news:q0hd51ddvbjinrr7j5ul0np1aq52i8ij3d@4ax.com...
> > >
> >Since they are a financial asset to farmers, livestock are well-taken
> >care of.
>
>
> Ayup. Long is the time I've seen farmers looking for cattle who got
> out during a snowstrom, risking life to save some animal and this is a
> *common* occurance.
>
> Then, there's the staying up all night, working a new born calf, ewe
> or whatever in addition to working a 12 hour (Or longer) day.
>
> Uh-huh, they sure don't care at all...Suuurrreeeeeee
True. Farmers raise animals to make money, but if they didn't care
about their animals they would be making a living by some easier
method.
Well, I know farmers who care about their animals. Please don't flame
me if you have heard of some who don't, but I think they are the
exception.
Sarah >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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Since: Jul 20, 2003
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 180) Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb DeleteThis @inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:hudq51dsn5fsnsr5bb8vvn7s59g98rtaa9@4ax.com...
>
> Has any of these potentially incriminating Animal Welfare visits hit
> your farm, or do you consider yourself in the risk-zone of having one?
What's your interest in this?
> >> Stay informed about: No farmer gives a f..k about his animals |
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