Welcome to PetForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

euthanasia

 
Goto page 1, 2
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Rat RSS
Next:  Casey O'Casey, 07-10-2004 - 12-11-2007  
Author Message
Marlo

External


Since: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 67



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:47 pm
Post subject: euthanasia
Archived from groups: alt>pets>rodents>rats (more info?)

Hi. So my old girl Chewie is doing poorly and the time has come. I've
read that the ideal euthanasia for rats is gas anesthetic before a fatal
injection. Unfortunately, my vet does not do gas for anesthesia. She
does injection in the rear leg for anesthesia. We have had rat surgeries
on 5 of the rats with this anesthesia and it has worked well. I live in
rural North Dakota in the US so finding a vet that can do gas is proving
to be difficult if not impossible.

A very good vet in Minneapolis who we use for a resource does gas
anesthetic until the animal is completely unconscious and then gives a
cardiac injection. He says it is fast and absolutely painless because
the animal is asleep.

So my question... since I can't find a vet to do gas anesthesia, is it
acceptable to do injectable anesthesia?

The American Vet Medical Assoc. put out a study on acceptable and
unacceptable methods of euthanasia. It says that if an animal is
unconscious, it cannot feel pain and therefore the method of euthanasia
is less critical.

I really need for this to be okay. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Marlo

 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dewi

External


Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 151



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Quite a few people do get their rats euthanased without the initial
anaesthetic gas and it does not have to be a painful experience. I
have had one rat injected without being sedated before hand, and it
seemed okay. She squeaked once, when the vet put in the needle, but
not when he was pushing the plunger. But I would suggest that the
injection should *never* go into the heart, kidneys or other major
organ, as I imagine that this would be painful. The vets I've used
have always injected into the abdominal area, taking care to avoid the
stomach etc. I'd suspect that injecting into the leg muscle would
hurt, mainly because most intramuscular injections sting.

If you do not have the option of the anaesthetic gas, ask about the
injection going into the abdominal area, taking care to avoid the
major organs. Debbie Ducommun, in her Rat Health Care Guide (which I
have a copy of) suggests initially using diazepam, unless the rat is
in respiratory distress. This is given orally or by subcutaneous
injection to sedate the rat. She then suggests the sodium
pentobarbital to be given in an intraperitoneal injection and to use a
finer needle (27 to 29 gauge). Perhaps you could discuss this option
with the vet.

I hope Chewie is going well, and that she passes away peacefully when
her time comes.

Dewi

 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dewi

External


Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 151



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Have you seen it being done and do you know what they use? I've been
asking the vet to inititally anaesthetise the rats and mice I've had
with the gas. The vets I have near me won't let me in with them when
they do the gas bit which I don't like. If there's a better
alternative it would be good to know about it.

Dewi
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dewi

External


Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 151



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

They say it's because of occupational health & safety reasons as the
anaesthetic gas leaks out and they don't want the customers being
affected by it. I personally think they are worried that someone will
pass out from the gas and they could get sued or complaints. I do get
to be with them when they give the final injection. There are other
vets that will let the owners go in for the whole thing, but they are
an hours drive away and it's not worth stressing an ill rat out with
all that travelling. It's good that Art didn't struggle. The vets tell
me my rats and mice haven't struggled, but I never 100% trust them.

Dewi
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joanne

External


Since: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 58



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Marlo wrote:
> Hi. So my old girl Chewie is doing poorly and the time has come. I've
> read that the ideal euthanasia for rats is gas anesthetic before a fatal
> injection. Unfortunately, my vet does not do gas for anesthesia. She
> does injection in the rear leg for anesthesia. We have had rat surgeries
> on 5 of the rats with this anesthesia and it has worked well. I live in
> rural North Dakota in the US so finding a vet that can do gas is proving
> to be difficult if not impossible.
>
> A very good vet in Minneapolis who we use for a resource does gas
> anesthetic until the animal is completely unconscious and then gives a
> cardiac injection. He says it is fast and absolutely painless because
> the animal is asleep.
>
> So my question... since I can't find a vet to do gas anesthesia, is it
> acceptable to do injectable anesthesia?
>
> The American Vet Medical Assoc. put out a study on acceptable and
> unacceptable methods of euthanasia. It says that if an animal is
> unconscious, it cannot feel pain and therefore the method of euthanasia
> is less critical.
>
> I really need for this to be okay. What do you guys think?
>
> Thanks,
> Marlo
>
The injection in the rear leg is an acceptable form of anesthesia before
the fatal injection.



--
Joanne
The Rat Shack
www.jorats.com
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
shpams

External


Since: May 26, 2006
Posts: 213



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:00 am
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Dewi" <widget4000 DeleteThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1195014133.384010.34190@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Have you seen it being done and do you know what they use? I've been
> asking the vet to inititally anaesthetise the rats and mice I've had
> with the gas. The vets I have near me won't let me in with them when
> they do the gas bit which I don't like. If there's a better
> alternative it would be good to know about it.
>
> Dewi
>
My vet gave me the choice to be in with Art. He didn't struggle with the gas
(a huge relief)
then I hugged him while he was given the injections (it took two as the 1st
one had no effect)
It was very peacful though.
It is very upsetting but I wasn't there for me, maybe that's why your vet
won't let you in, to
spare you the upset ?
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joanne

External


Since: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 58



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dewi wrote:
> Have you seen it being done and do you know what they use? I've been
> asking the vet to inititally anaesthetise the rats and mice I've had
> with the gas. The vets I have near me won't let me in with them when
> they do the gas bit which I don't like. If there's a better
> alternative it would be good to know about it.
>
> Dewi
>

I'm going by what a vet tech has posted on my site. We had this exact
discussion.

--
Joanne
The Rat Shack
www.jorats.com
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dewi

External


Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 151



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Nov 15, 12:51 am, Zoe <miss... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Dewi wrote:
> > They say it's because of occupational health & safety reasons as the
> > anaesthetic gas leaks out and they don't want the customers being
> > affected by it. I personally think they are worried that someone will
> > pass out from the gas and they could get sued or complaints. I do get
> > to be with them when they give the final injection. There are other
> > vets that will let the owners go in for the whole thing, but they are
> > an hours drive away and it's not worth stressing an ill rat out with
> > all that travelling. It's good that Art didn't struggle. The vets tell
> > me my rats and mice haven't struggled, but I never 100% trust them.
>
> > Dewi
>
> What gas do they use? Isoflurane?
>
> When my vet put one of my rats down through gas, I was there with him
> until he passed away.
>
> The reason why the gas is so effective for small animal anesthesia is
> that very little (I seem to recall the vet saying about 4%) is absorbed
> via the lungs. Which means when the gas is turned off, the animal comes
> around pretty quickly. (That conversation was a few years ago, so I hope
> I've managed to recall it fairly accurately).
>
> But it also means that it is fairly safe for you to be present while
> they gas them.. Though I suppose they have other reasons to prefer you
> not to be there.
>
> Zoe :)


I'm not certain what the gas is. The vet told me that they do come out
of it quickle, but they usually rush the rat into the consult room to
give the final injection. It's just been the policy of the vets
clinics that are near me. I'm going to look into alternatives like
using an injectable sedative and I'll discuss this with a vet the next
time I have to have a little critter PTS :(

Dewi
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Kate

External


Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 175



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

One Vet I use Marlo wrote:
> Hi. So my old girl Chewie is doing poorly and the time has come. I've
> read that the ideal euthanasia for rats is gas anesthetic before a fatal
> injection. Unfortunately, my vet does not do gas for anesthesia. She
> does injection in the rear leg for anesthesia. We have had rat surgeries
> on 5 of the rats with this anesthesia and it has worked well. I live in
> rural North Dakota in the US so finding a vet that can do gas is proving
> to be difficult if not impossible.
>
> A very good vet in Minneapolis who we use for a resource does gas
> anesthetic until the animal is completely unconscious and then gives a
> cardiac injection. He says it is fast and absolutely painless because
> the animal is asleep.
>
> So my question... since I can't find a vet to do gas anesthesia, is it
> acceptable to do injectable anesthesia?
>
> The American Vet Medical Assoc. put out a study on acceptable and
> unacceptable methods of euthanasia. It says that if an animal is
> unconscious, it cannot feel pain and therefore the method of euthanasia
> is less critical.
>
> I really need for this to be okay. What do you guys think?
>
> Thanks,
> Marlo
>
One Vet I use doesn't use gas either. She gives an injection that
knocks them out and then gives the final shot. I find this way, less
stressful as I have found my Rats struggle with the gas and I, in turn
get upset.

Regards Kate

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Marlo Miller

External


Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 12



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I'm taking Chewie to the vet today for a fluid injection. We're going to
try that and see if she perks up. I fear we may be desperately holding
onto hope. You can't reverse the aging process. But when we moved her
into her own, smaller cage a couple days ago, she ate and drank and
seemed better for a bit. She is not eating and drinking very much now
and is getting around very slowly and low to the ground. She still makes
"happy rat" bruxing. She does not seem to be wheezing, sneezing or
struggling with breathing. I give her wipe-down baths. She has red
discharge from her nose but she's still trying to groom herself.

On the subject of euthanasia, I think that anesthesia with a shot in the
leg until she is totally under followed by a cardiac stick is humane.
She will be completely unconscious and not feel anything, just like she
wouldn't feel surgery.

This sucks. I have five more rats and I can't imagine going through
this five more times. How can we stand it????? They have such short
little lives.

Thank you everyone for your input.
-Marlo

Kate wrote:
> One Vet I use Marlo wrote:
>> Hi. So my old girl Chewie is doing poorly and the time has come. I've
>> read that the ideal euthanasia for rats is gas anesthetic before a
>> fatal injection. Unfortunately, my vet does not do gas for anesthesia.
>> She does injection in the rear leg for anesthesia. We have had rat
>> surgeries on 5 of the rats with this anesthesia and it has worked
>> well. I live in rural North Dakota in the US so finding a vet that
>> can do gas is proving to be difficult if not impossible.
>>
>> A very good vet in Minneapolis who we use for a resource does gas
>> anesthetic until the animal is completely unconscious and then gives a
>> cardiac injection. He says it is fast and absolutely painless because
>> the animal is asleep.
>>
>> So my question... since I can't find a vet to do gas anesthesia, is it
>> acceptable to do injectable anesthesia?
>>
>> The American Vet Medical Assoc. put out a study on acceptable and
>> unacceptable methods of euthanasia. It says that if an animal is
>> unconscious, it cannot feel pain and therefore the method of
>> euthanasia is less critical.
>>
>> I really need for this to be okay. What do you guys think?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marlo
>>
> One Vet I use doesn't use gas either. She gives an injection that
> knocks them out and then gives the final shot. I find this way, less
> stressful as I have found my Rats struggle with the gas and I, in turn
> get upset.
>
> Regards Kate
>
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Marlo

External


Since: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 67



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia Chewie update [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

After fluids today, she's just not doing so hot tonight. Lethargic,
grunting when she breathes, although the vet said it didn't sound like
she had fluid in her lungs. I think this is a losing battle. When I was
at the vet, though, I found out that they can do gas anesthesia. So,
what do you all think is better before the fatal injection: gas
anesthesia or injected anesthesia? For the gas, she'll have to put
Chewie in a container. God, this sucks.

I'm really glad we have this forum to go to.
Thanks for listening and providing your input.
-Marlo

Marlo Miller wrote:
> I'm taking Chewie to the vet today for a fluid injection. We're going to
> try that and see if she perks up. I fear we may be desperately holding
> onto hope. You can't reverse the aging process. But when we moved her
> into her own, smaller cage a couple days ago, she ate and drank and
> seemed better for a bit. She is not eating and drinking very much now
> and is getting around very slowly and low to the ground. She still makes
> "happy rat" bruxing. She does not seem to be wheezing, sneezing or
> struggling with breathing. I give her wipe-down baths. She has red
> discharge from her nose but she's still trying to groom herself.
>
> On the subject of euthanasia, I think that anesthesia with a shot in the
> leg until she is totally under followed by a cardiac stick is humane.
> She will be completely unconscious and not feel anything, just like she
> wouldn't feel surgery.
>
> This sucks. I have five more rats and I can't imagine going through
> this five more times. How can we stand it????? They have such short
> little lives.
>
> Thank you everyone for your input.
> -Marlo
>
> Kate wrote:
>> One Vet I use Marlo wrote:
>>> Hi. So my old girl Chewie is doing poorly and the time has come. I've
>>> read that the ideal euthanasia for rats is gas anesthetic before a
>>> fatal injection. Unfortunately, my vet does not do gas for
>>> anesthesia. She does injection in the rear leg for anesthesia. We
>>> have had rat surgeries on 5 of the rats with this anesthesia and it
>>> has worked well. I live in rural North Dakota in the US so finding a
>>> vet that can do gas is proving to be difficult if not impossible.
>>>
>>> A very good vet in Minneapolis who we use for a resource does gas
>>> anesthetic until the animal is completely unconscious and then gives
>>> a cardiac injection. He says it is fast and absolutely painless
>>> because the animal is asleep.
>>>
>>> So my question... since I can't find a vet to do gas anesthesia, is
>>> it acceptable to do injectable anesthesia?
>>>
>>> The American Vet Medical Assoc. put out a study on acceptable and
>>> unacceptable methods of euthanasia. It says that if an animal is
>>> unconscious, it cannot feel pain and therefore the method of
>>> euthanasia is less critical.
>>>
>>> I really need for this to be okay. What do you guys think?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marlo
>>>
>> One Vet I use doesn't use gas either. She gives an injection that
>> knocks them out and then gives the final shot. I find this way, less
>> stressful as I have found my Rats struggle with the gas and I, in
>> turn get upset.
>>
>> Regards Kate
>>
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Tiger Spot

External


Since: Jan 31, 2008
Posts: 20



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia Chewie update [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:14:34 -0600, Marlo <marlolovesrats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>After fluids today, she's just not doing so hot tonight. Lethargic,
>grunting when she breathes, although the vet said it didn't sound like
>she had fluid in her lungs. I think this is a losing battle. When I was
>at the vet, though, I found out that they can do gas anesthesia. So,
>what do you all think is better before the fatal injection: gas
>anesthesia or injected anesthesia? For the gas, she'll have to put
>Chewie in a container. God, this sucks.

Injectable is perfectly fine; it's just a little stick. As long as the
rat's unconscious for the main injection it doesn't really matter how
she gets there. A quick little poke with you standing there for
comfort will probably bother her less than gas in a weird enclosed
space.


--Theresa

http://tiger_spot.mapache.org
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Zoe

External


Since: Oct 03, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:51 am
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dewi wrote:
> They say it's because of occupational health & safety reasons as the
> anaesthetic gas leaks out and they don't want the customers being
> affected by it. I personally think they are worried that someone will
> pass out from the gas and they could get sued or complaints. I do get
> to be with them when they give the final injection. There are other
> vets that will let the owners go in for the whole thing, but they are
> an hours drive away and it's not worth stressing an ill rat out with
> all that travelling. It's good that Art didn't struggle. The vets tell
> me my rats and mice haven't struggled, but I never 100% trust them.
>
> Dewi
>

What gas do they use? Isoflurane?

When my vet put one of my rats down through gas, I was there with him
until he passed away.

The reason why the gas is so effective for small animal anesthesia is
that very little (I seem to recall the vet saying about 4%) is absorbed
via the lungs. Which means when the gas is turned off, the animal comes
around pretty quickly. (That conversation was a few years ago, so I hope
I've managed to recall it fairly accurately).

But it also means that it is fairly safe for you to be present while
they gas them.. Though I suppose they have other reasons to prefer you
not to be there.

Zoe :)
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dewi

External


Since: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 61



(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>
> I'm going by what a vet tech has posted on my site. We had this exact
> discussion.
>
> --
> Joanne
> The Rat Shackwww.jorats.com


I'll take a look at this discussion on your site. I have more time now
so can take a good look at your site and also introduce myself. I'll
try to do this over the next week.

Dewi.
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Kate

External


Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 175



(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: euthanasia [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On the few occasions when I did ask for gas first the vet would soak
some cotton balls in the gas and put them in a container and pop my
Rattie boy in as well.

Regards Kate



Dewi wrote:

> They say it's because of occupational health & safety reasons as the
> anaesthetic gas leaks out and they don't want the customers being
> affected by it. I personally think they are worried that someone will
> pass out from the gas and they could get sued or complaints. I do get
> to be with them when they give the final injection. There are other
> vets that will let the owners go in for the whole thing, but they are
> an hours drive away and it's not worth stressing an ill rat out with
> all that travelling. It's good that Art didn't struggle. The vets tell
> me my rats and mice haven't struggled, but I never 100% trust them.
>
> Dewi


--
http://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg
 >> Stay informed about: euthanasia 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Euthanasia & Cremation - Anyone had their ratties euthanized? Did you get them cremated after? What are your thoughts on cremation? Dawn
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Rat All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page 1, 2
Page 1 of 2

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]