Does the end justify the means?

External Since: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 99

what kind of hacked up post is this? is there a point
somewhere?

"Vonne" <beka4628.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142970125.351327.5840@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> "Concentration camps and slavery. The words are deliberatly
> emotive to make the comparison.
> Animals are not people, there are not slaves and they are not
> in
> concetration camps."
>
> You are absolutely right. The words 'concentration camp' and
> 'slavery'
> are emotive. So is the term 'racist'. The difference is that
> Glorfindel backed up the comparison with something. What fact
> are you
> using to support your use of the word 'racist'. I have not
> seen one
> logical argument to back up your claim.
>
>
> Rick "Ummm, then tell us why you don't believe animals have
> rights, and
> why you do not defend or support those rights."
> Vonne "Glorfindel's post was supporting animal rights."
> Rick "Only in word. Her actions tell a different story. Her
> actions
> prove that killing animals for entertainemnt is quite OK with
> her. Not quite the ideal of AR, now is it?"
>
> What actions are you refering to? Glorfindel's post said
> nothing about
> his/her personel actions. What text are you using to come to
> this
> conclusion? I've read and re-read Glofindel's post and saw
> nothing
> pertaining to killing animals for entertainment.
>
> Vonne : "I however do not support the animal rights movement.
> I
> believe in Animal Welfare. I think that right now, using
> animals in
> research is necessary, however I believe that we should
> minimize pain
> and distress whenever possible.
> Rick "LOL And, that is already the case for lab animals. On
> the other
>
> hand, there is no welfare for animals that are sliced, diced,
> shredded and poisoned for our selfish convenineces. Why all
> the
> concern for a relativly small number of animals that are
> treated
> fairly well, and NO concern for the billions upon billions that
> die for our conveniences?"
>
> I am assuming that since you used the highly 'emotive' sentence
> "...there is no welfare for animals that are sliced, diced,
> shredded and poisoned for our selfish convenineces." That you
> are
> referring to animals killed for food. The fact is, that in my
> experience, animals are treated humanely in all branchs of
> animal
> related industry.
>
>> "You've proven that right here, killer."
>
>
>> Proven what?
>
>
>
> ======================
> That she doesn't believe in animals rights.
>
> Your post has done nothing but provide an illogical
> ======================
> The logic is sound, the irrationality is from vegans...
>
> What text are you using to show that Glorfindel doesn't believe
> in
> animal rights?
> =========================
Her own posts to usenet. If animals had rights, there would be
no usenet. No power, No communications, Millions upon millions
of items that make up our everyday life. We could not life it
without the death and suffering of billions upon billions of
animals. So, now, tell me again where all those animals' rights
are again. I know they don't, she knows they don't, YOU know
they don't have rights, and they never will as long as you can
kill them for felsifhness and entertainmnet, hypocrite.

> and
>
>
>> rude argument. I'm not even sure who you are directing it to.
>> Before
>> you post again, please think before you click 'post'
>
>
> ========================
> LOL I am thinking. You, on the other hand seem to be
> willfully
> ignorant on the impact your life has on animals.
>
> My experience includes: Doggie Day care montioring, grooming,
> bathing,
> assistant at a vet hospital, volunteering at animal shelters,
> working
> on farms, touring mulitple slaughter houses, designing a swine
> barn for
> an existing farm and that is before I graduated with a degree
> in Animal
> Science. Since then, I've worked in animal research. I've
> been a cage
> washer, animal caretaker, lab animal technician, and now I work
> with an
> IACUC to monitor and regulate animal welfare at our
> institution.
==============================
And, you still kill animals willy-nilly for your entertainment.
thanks for proving my point, hypocrite.

>
> I have spent my entire life preserving the health and welfare
> of all
> species. I am well aware of the impact my life has on animals
> and the
> impact that animals have had on my life.
>===========================================
Then your first statememt is a ly.

External Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102

rick wrote:

.....
> If animals had rights, there would be
> no usenet. No power, No communications, Millions upon millions
> of items that make up our everyday life. We could not life it
> without the death and suffering of billions upon billions of
> animals.

The same is true of humans, as I'm sure you know, Rick.

All human actions, all human society, all human products,
have some negative effects on other humans, other animals,
and the environment. Some of these effects are blatant
and severe, such as sweatshops, or the terrible conditions
(for both human workers and slaughtered animals) in some
large-scale commercial slaughterhouses. Remember the
workers who were burned to death because the doors were
locked in a chicken processing plant? Yet no one says
this means humans do not have rights, or even that the
people who bought products from such producers did not
believe humans have rights. We can never live so as to
have no negative effect on others, no matter how much we
know, or how hard we try. The effect of Usenet on animal
suffering is small compared to other sources of animal
suffering and death. That is not to say it should be
ignored, but surely there are other areas we should
work on first.

......

>>My experience includes: Doggie Day care montioring, grooming,
>>bathing,
>>assistant at a vet hospital, volunteering at animal shelters,
>>working
>>on farms, touring mulitple slaughter houses, designing a swine
>>barn for
>>an existing farm and that is before I graduated with a degree
>>in Animal
>>Science.

I assume you are familiar with Rollin's book on farm animal
welfare? What do you think about his ideas?

>>Since then, I've worked in animal research. I've
>>been a cage
>>washer, animal caretaker, lab animal technician, and now I work
>>with an
>>IACUC to monitor and regulate animal welfare at our
>>institution.