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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:09 am
Post subject: Does the end justify the means? Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals (more info?)
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I would like to pose a question to all of you out there in the internet
world. Does the end result justify means?
Allow me to clarify. While in college I majored in Animal Science. As
part of my studies I learned the history behind the current federal
regulations regarding the care and use of animals. In the process, I
discovered that it is near impossible to learn about the Animal Welfare
Act (AWA), the Public Health Service (PHS) Policy, and the Guide for
the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals (the Guide) without discussing
the measures taken by organizations such as PeTA in spurring the
creation of such guidelines and rules. I have to admit that the animal
industry is better off because these laws and guideless exist.
Does the fact that PeTA has enabled the creation and enforcement of the
AWA, the PHS Policy, and the Guide justify their supporting terroristic
activities by financing members of the Animal Liberation Front (ALF)?
Does it justify them targeting elementary school children by forcing
them to listen to a one-side argument? Does it make it right that they
support people who break into research facilities and destroy years of
medical research that could save human lives?
I understand that in war there are usually casualties, and animal
rights organizations appear to fight for their cause as though it is a
war. So, does the good that has come out of the animal rights movement
justify the tactics used by Animal Rights organizations? >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Vonne wrote:
....
> Does the fact that PeTA has enabled the creation and enforcement of the
> AWA, the PHS Policy, and the Guide justify their supporting terroristic
> activities by financing members of the Animal Liberation Front (ALF)?
> Does it justify them targeting elementary school children by forcing
> them to listen to a one-side argument? Does it make it right that they
> support people who break into research facilities and destroy years of
> medical research that could save human lives?
> I understand that in war there are usually casualties, and animal
> rights organizations appear to fight for their cause as though it is a
> war. So, does the good that has come out of the animal rights movement
> justify the tactics used by Animal Rights organizations?
You are getting close to the idea by saying that animal rights
organizations regard their efforts as "war," but actually it
would be closer to say they regard it as a movement equivalent
to liberating prisoners held in concentration camps or slaves.
In war, it is generally held that, even if one side violated
the requirements of Just War in starting the war, enemy
combatants themselves are not responsible for the policy of their
government and should be treated according to codes of war, the Geneva
Convention, and so on. Prisoners of war are to be treated
humanely and not punished for participating in a legitimate declared
war as members of their armies.
However, the victims held in research labs are not combatants, and
those who experiment on them are not combatants, so the rules of
war do not apply. If ALF carries out a raid and liberates animals
from a lab, it is not an act of war, but seen as liberating prisoners
unjustly held and unjustly used in medical experiments. The
vivisectionists are seen as morally no different from Dr. Mengele
in his experiments on prisoners in concentration camps, or
slaveowners who killed their slaves when the slave had committed
no crime. Talking to children, or anyone, is seen as equivalent
to promoting abolition of slavery. I can see no reason to destroy
records on research, but destroying equipment and plant could
be seen as destroying equipment necessary to carry out such
unjust experiments, and replacing equipment and beefing up security
at labs at least reduces the amount of funds available for actually
carrying out experiments. If one does believe in animal rights,
then using animals in experiments cannot be justified by any
potential benefit to humans, any more than using one unwilling
human in medical experiments can be justified by potential
benefit to other humans. >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Oct 06, 2005 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Vonne wrote:
> I would like to pose a question to all of you out there in the internet
>
> world. Does the end result justify means?
Sometimes they do. For example it could be argued (rightly
or wrongly) that the ends (advances in medical science) justify
the means (torture and killing of animals). The tactics used by
the militant fringe of the animal rights movement are not justified
because the membership of the fringe do not have the moral
authority to decide whether or not animal tests should continue.
The issue here is not animal testing per se but how we as
a society make our rules and a society where everyone makes
their own rules and attempts to impose them on everyone else
would not be a very nice soicety in which to live. I am not
taking sides between vivisections and ARAs. I am taking the
side of the rule of law and the democratic process against the
forces of anarchy.
> Allow me to clarify. While in college I majored in Animal Science. As
>
> part of my studies I learned the history behind the current federal
> regulations regarding the care and use of animals. In the process, I
> discovered that it is near impossible to learn about the Animal Welfare
>
> Act (AWA), the Public Health Service (PHS) Policy, and the Guide for
> the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals (the Guide) without discussing
> the measures taken by organizations such as PeTA in spurring the
> creation of such guidelines and rules. I have to admit that the animal
>
> industry is better off because these laws and guideless exist.
>
>
> Does the fact that PeTA has enabled the creation and enforcement of the
>
> AWA, the PHS Policy, and the Guide justify their supporting terroristic
>
> activities by financing members of the Animal Liberation Front (ALF)?
> Does it justify them targeting elementary school children by forcing
> them to listen to a one-side argument? Does it make it right that they
>
> support people who break into research facilities and destroy years of
> medical research that could save human lives?
>
>
> I understand that in war there are usually casualties, and animal
> rights organizations appear to fight for their cause as though it is a
> war. So, does the good that has come out of the animal rights movement
>
> justify the tactics used by Animal Rights organizations? >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Oct 06, 2005 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 99
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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snip ignorant racist blather..
If one does believe in animal rights,
> then using animals in experiments cannot be justified by any
> potential benefit to humans, any more than using one unwilling
> human in medical experiments can be justified by potential
> benefit to other humans.
=========================================
Ummm, then tell us why you don't believe animals have rights, and
why you do not defend or support those rights.
You've proven that right here, killer.
> >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 99
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:26 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142302478.790603.242100@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> snip ignorant racist blather..
>
> There was nothing racist about it.
>========================
Just keep telling yourself that.
I notice you didn't bother to refute the rest of the post, but
just snipped it out, without annotation... >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:28 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You wanted someone to reply to your post, well here goes:
"snip ignorant racist blather.."
I found nothing in Glorfindel's post that was even remotely racist.
Just because someone talks about slavery doesn't make them a racist.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially if they take the time
to back it up with thought and reason. I don't happen to agree with
Glorfindel's comparison, but that doesn't mean that I can't respect the
thought that went it.
"If one does believe in animal rights,
> then using animals in experiments cannot be justified by any
> potential benefit to humans, any more than using one unwilling
> human in medical experiments can be justified by potential
> benefit to other humans.
=========================================
"Ummm, then tell us why you don't believe animals have rights, and
why you do not defend or support those rights."
Glorfindel's post was supporting animal rights. I however do not
support the animal rights movement. I believe in Animal Welfare. I
think that right now, using animals in research is necessary, however I
believe that we should minimize pain and distress whenever possible.
"You've proven that right here, killer."
Proven what? Your post has done nothing but provide an illogical and
rude argument. I'm not even sure who you are directing it to. Before
you post again, please think before you click 'post' >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Oct 06, 2005 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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rick wrote:
> "Dave" <prplbn RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1142302478.790603.242100@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > rick wrote:
> >> snip ignorant racist blather..
> >
> > There was nothing racist about it.
> >========================
> Just keep telling yourself that.
I will keep telling you that because it is true. The post
you snipped as "ignorant racist blather" contained
absolutely no sign of racism. >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Oct 06, 2005 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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rick wrote:
> "Dave" <prplbn RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1142354731.410848.45880@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > rick wrote:
> >> "Dave" <prplbn RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1142302478.790603.242100@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > rick wrote:
> >> >> snip ignorant racist blather..
> >> >
> >> > There was nothing racist about it.
> >> >========================
> >> Just keep telling yourself that.
> >
> > I will keep telling you that because it is true. The post
> > you snipped as "ignorant racist blather" contained
> > absolutely no sign of racism.
> ==============================
> Yes, is does. The deliberate emotive comparason to concentration
> camps and slavery are made with just such ideas in mind.
An emotive comparison to injustices that have been suffered by
people of various racial backgrounds in the past. The racial
backgrounds of the perpetrators and the sufferers is neither
specified, nor is it relevant to the comparison Glofindel is making.
She said nothing racist.
> Otherwise the comparason doesn't work at making people feel bad.
> Animals are not slaves, and they are not in concentration camps.
Whether or not the comparison is valid, it is not racist.
> I aslo notice you snipped, dishonestly, the reference to the real
> meat of the reply, and ignored it. Why is that?
Your original post was a reply to Glorfindel. It contained one
error that I felt like taking you to task over. I did not feel like
challenging the rest of the post. Problem?
>
> I notice you didn't bother to refute the rest of the post, but
> just snipped it out, without annotation...
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 99
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Vonne" <beka4628.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142342909.733596.141910@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> You wanted someone to reply to your post, well here goes:
>
> "snip ignorant racist blather.."
>
> I found nothing in Glorfindel's post that was even remotely
> racist.
> Just because someone talks about slavery doesn't make them a
> racist.
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially if they take
> the time
> to back it up with thought and reason. I don't happen to agree
> with
> Glorfindel's comparison, but that doesn't mean that I can't
> respect the
> thought that went it.
======================
Concentration camps and slavery. The words are deliberatly
emotive to make the comparison.
Animals are not people, there are not slaves and they are not in
concetration camps.
>
> "If one does believe in animal rights,
>
>> then using animals in experiments cannot be justified by any
>> potential benefit to humans, any more than using one unwilling
>> human in medical experiments can be justified by potential
>> benefit to other humans.
>
>
> =========================================
> "Ummm, then tell us why you don't believe animals have rights,
> and
> why you do not defend or support those rights."
>
> Glorfindel's post was supporting animal rights.
================================
Only in word. Her actions tell a different story. Her actions
prove that killing animals for entertainemnt is quite OK with
her. Not quite the ideal of AR, now is it?
I however do not
> support the animal rights movement. I believe in Animal
> Welfare. I
> think that right now, using animals in research is necessary,
> however I
> believe that we should minimize pain and distress whenever
> possible.
=========================
LOL And, that is already the case for lab animals. On the other
hand, there is no welfare for animals that are sliced, diced,
shredded and poisoned for our selfish convenineces. Why all the
concern for a relativly small number of animals that are treated
fairly well, and NO concern for the billions upon billions that
die for our conveniences?
>
> "You've proven that right here, killer."
>
> Proven what?
======================
That she doesn't believe in animals rights.
Your post has done nothing but provide an illogical
======================
The logic is sound, the irrationality is from vegans...
and
> rude argument. I'm not even sure who you are directing it to.
> Before
> you post again, please think before you click 'post'
========================
LOL I am thinking. You, on the other hand seem to be willfully
ignorant on the impact your life has on animals.
=
> >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 99
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dave" <prplbn.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142354731.410848.45880@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> "Dave" <prplbn.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142302478.790603.242100@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > rick wrote:
>> >> snip ignorant racist blather..
>> >
>> > There was nothing racist about it.
>> >========================
>> Just keep telling yourself that.
>
> I will keep telling you that because it is true. The post
> you snipped as "ignorant racist blather" contained
> absolutely no sign of racism.
==============================
Yes, is does. The deliberate emotive comparason to concentration
camps and slavery are made with just such ideas in mind.
Otherwise the comparason doesn't work at making people feel bad.
Animals are not slaves, and they are not in concentration camps.
I aslo notice you snipped, dishonestly, the reference to the real
meat of the reply, and ignored it. Why is that?
I notice you didn't bother to refute the rest of the post, but
just snipped it out, without annotation...
> >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 99
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:28 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142374897.883815.99920@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> "Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142354731.410848.45880@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > rick wrote:
>> >> "Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1142302478.790603.242100@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > rick wrote:
>> >> >> snip ignorant racist blather..
>> >> >
>> >> > There was nothing racist about it.
>> >> >========================
>> >> Just keep telling yourself that.
>> >
>> > I will keep telling you that because it is true. The post
>> > you snipped as "ignorant racist blather" contained
>> > absolutely no sign of racism.
>> ==============================
>> Yes, is does. The deliberate emotive comparason to
>> concentration
>> camps and slavery are made with just such ideas in mind.
>
> An emotive comparison to injustices that have been suffered by
> people of various racial backgrounds in the past. The racial
> backgrounds of the perpetrators and the sufferers is neither
> specified, nor is it relevant to the comparison Glofindel is
> making.
> She said nothing racist.
=========================
LOL It doesn't have to be specified, that's what makes it so
emotive. No one thinks chickens when they hear 'concentration
camps.'
>
>> Otherwise the comparason doesn't work at making people feel
>> bad.
>> Animals are not slaves, and they are not in concentration
>> camps.
>
> Whether or not the comparison is valid, it is not racist.
=====================
Yes, it is.
>
>> I aslo notice you snipped, dishonestly, the reference to the
>> real
>> meat of the reply, and ignored it. Why is that?
>
> Your original post was a reply to Glorfindel. It contained one
> error that I felt like taking you to task over. I did not feel
> like
> challenging the rest of the post. Problem?
======================
Of course you didn't. You can't...
>>
>> I notice you didn't bother to refute the rest of the post, but
>> just snipped it out, without annotation...
=====================
Now you're just lying dave. It was annotated. Try again...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
> >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Oct 06, 2005 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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rick wrote:
> "Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1142374897.883815.99920@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > rick wrote:
> >> "Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1142354731.410848.45880@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > rick wrote:
> >> >> "Dave" <prplbn.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:1142302478.790603.242100@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > rick wrote:
> >> >> >> snip ignorant racist blather..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There was nothing racist about it.
> >> >> >========================
> >> >> Just keep telling yourself that.
> >> >
> >> > I will keep telling you that because it is true. The post
> >> > you snipped as "ignorant racist blather" contained
> >> > absolutely no sign of racism.
> >> ==============================
> >> Yes, is does. The deliberate emotive comparason to
> >> concentration
> >> camps and slavery are made with just such ideas in mind.
> >
> > An emotive comparison to injustices that have been suffered by
> > people of various racial backgrounds in the past. The racial
> > backgrounds of the perpetrators and the sufferers is neither
> > specified, nor is it relevant to the comparison Glofindel is
> > making.
> > She said nothing racist.
> =========================
> LOL It doesn't have to be specified,
It isn't specified because the arguments are the same whatever
racial groups we are discussing.
> that's what makes it so
> emotive. No one thinks chickens when they hear 'concentration
> camps.'
Dr Mengele was just an example. Her argument is that medical
research on unwilling animals is morally no different from medical
research on unwilling humans. The argument does not depend
on the race of the unwilling humans. She is not being racist.
> >
> >> Otherwise the comparason doesn't work at making people feel
> >> bad.
> >> Animals are not slaves, and they are not in concentration
> >> camps.
> >
> > Whether or not the comparison is valid, it is not racist.
> =====================
> Yes, it is.
No it isn't.
> >
> >> I aslo notice you snipped, dishonestly, the reference to the
> >> real
> >> meat of the reply, and ignored it. Why is that?
> >
> > Your original post was a reply to Glorfindel. It contained one
> > error that I felt like taking you to task over. I did not feel
> > like
> > challenging the rest of the post. Problem?
> ======================
> Of course you didn't. You can't...
It is beyond dispute that the manufacture of computers and the
production and distribution of power all cause some animals
to die. Standard AR theory appears to accept these deaths
as "accidental" but argues that they do not provide any excuse
for causing additional deliberate deaths or injustices.
Take it up with ARAs I am more interesting in this bizzarre
claim that Glorfindel's post was racist.
> >> I notice you didn't bother to refute the rest of the post, but
> >> just snipped it out, without annotation...
> =====================
> Now you're just lying dave. It was annotated. Try again...
Eh? Do you realise that the quote "I notice you didn't
bother to refute the rest of the post, but just snipped it out,
without annotation..." was actually written by you? >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Concentration camps and slavery. The words are deliberatly
emotive to make the comparison.
Animals are not people, there are not slaves and they are not in
concetration camps."
You are absolutely right. The words 'concentration camp' and 'slavery'
are emotive. So is the term 'racist'. The difference is that
Glorfindel backed up the comparison with something. What fact are you
using to support your use of the word 'racist'. I have not seen one
logical argument to back up your claim.
Rick "Ummm, then tell us why you don't believe animals have rights, and
why you do not defend or support those rights."
Vonne "Glorfindel's post was supporting animal rights."
Rick "Only in word. Her actions tell a different story. Her actions
prove that killing animals for entertainemnt is quite OK with
her. Not quite the ideal of AR, now is it?"
What actions are you refering to? Glorfindel's post said nothing about
his/her personel actions. What text are you using to come to this
conclusion? I've read and re-read Glofindel's post and saw nothing
pertaining to killing animals for entertainment.
Vonne : "I however do not support the animal rights movement. I
believe in Animal Welfare. I think that right now, using animals in
research is necessary, however I believe that we should minimize pain
and distress whenever possible.
Rick "LOL And, that is already the case for lab animals. On the other
hand, there is no welfare for animals that are sliced, diced,
shredded and poisoned for our selfish convenineces. Why all the
concern for a relativly small number of animals that are treated
fairly well, and NO concern for the billions upon billions that
die for our conveniences?"
I am assuming that since you used the highly 'emotive' sentence
"...there is no welfare for animals that are sliced, diced,
shredded and poisoned for our selfish convenineces." That you are
referring to animals killed for food. The fact is, that in my
experience, animals are treated humanely in all branchs of animal
related industry.
> "You've proven that right here, killer."
> Proven what?
======================
That she doesn't believe in animals rights.
Your post has done nothing but provide an illogical
======================
The logic is sound, the irrationality is from vegans...
What text are you using to show that Glorfindel doesn't believe in
animal rights?
and
> rude argument. I'm not even sure who you are directing it to.
> Before
> you post again, please think before you click 'post'
========================
LOL I am thinking. You, on the other hand seem to be willfully
ignorant on the impact your life has on animals.
My experience includes: Doggie Day care montioring, grooming, bathing,
assistant at a vet hospital, volunteering at animal shelters, working
on farms, touring mulitple slaughter houses, designing a swine barn for
an existing farm and that is before I graduated with a degree in Animal
Science. Since then, I've worked in animal research. I've been a cage
washer, animal caretaker, lab animal technician, and now I work with an
IACUC to monitor and regulate animal welfare at our institution.
I have spent my entire life preserving the health and welfare of all
species. I am well aware of the impact my life has on animals and the
impact that animals have had on my life. >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Does the end justify the means? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Vonne wrote:
> You are absolutely right. The words 'concentration camp' and 'slavery'
> are emotive. So is the term 'racist'. The difference is that
> Glorfindel backed up the comparison with something.
Also, if you remember, your original post concerned how
members of the ALF saw their actions in removing animals
from labs and engaging in sabotage. I used those analogies
to make clear how strongly such hard-line activists feel,
and why. That is how they see the issue.
There are a number of more academic writers on animal rights
who express their ideas in more philosophical and
dispassionate language, with several different philosophical
and religious approaches. I haven't read all of them by any
means, but in the over 20 years I have both worked in
animal-welfare-related fields and supported animal rights
as a philosophy, I have read quite a few. Some are
philosophers, like Regan, Singer, or Sapontzis, some
professors of law, like Francione, some with considerable
familiarity with the realities of animal husbandry, like
Rollin, or animal ethology, like Michael Fox or Jane
Goodall. Some are theologians like Linzey, Hyland, or Kaufman
and Braun. Some are even historians, like Boria Sax or
Susan Sperling (who wrote on the Victorian anti-vivisection
movement -- opposition to animal research has a long
history). All supporters of animal rights are not ALFers,
any more than all abolitionists were members of John
Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry.
.....
> My experience includes: Doggie Day care montioring, grooming, bathing,
> assistant at a vet hospital, volunteering at animal shelters, working
> on farms, touring mulitple slaughter houses, designing a swine barn for
> an existing farm and that is before I graduated with a degree in Animal
> Science. Since then, I've worked in animal research. I've been a cage
> washer, animal caretaker, lab animal technician, and now I work with an
> IACUC to monitor and regulate animal welfare at our institution.
Mine includes: running a small private cat rescue and working with
a larger one, helping to care for sheep and horses, working in a
vet's office, working as a zookeeper, working (briefly) as
an animal control officer, 25 years in retail with
companion-animal products for care, health, and nutrition, and
living with a wide variety of animals (researching each species
as I went along). All my life I have been immersed in the world
of animals, and surrounded by animal people. When discussing
animals, I, like you, am not talking about abstract "victims" or
subjects of philosophy; I can see individual furry or feathered
beings I have known personally, fed, exercised, nursed, groomed,
and cleaned up after.
> I have spent my entire life preserving the health and welfare of all
> species. I am well aware of the impact my life has on animals and the
> impact that animals have had on my life.
I would say the same is true of me. >> Stay informed about: Does the end justify the means? |
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