collateral damage of organic rice

Allyb wrote:

> Anyone have good links regarding the environmental impact of rice grown
> organically?

Do the thousands of animals killed first in the
flooding, then in the draining of a single rice field
count as environmental damage?
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

rick etter wrote:

> "Allyb" <allyb.RemoveThis@a1isp.net> wrote in message
> news:bu22gi$be6$1@news.chatlink.com...
>
>>Anyone have good links regarding the environmental impact of rice grown
>>organically?
>
> ======================
> You mean like being 2nd only animals in the production of worldwide methane
> emissions?

Some of those sources suggested rice paddy methane
emssions are the largest source of them, and the second
biggest component of greenhouse gasses after CO2.
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

rick etter wrote in message ...
>====================
>Well duh. Where do you see that he said that? The comment was about how
>much more damage is added by the other 2 'satples' of the typical vegan.
>If rice causes this much, then how much more can a couple of process
>intensive items cause. guess that idea goes right over your head though.
>Must be your diet causing comprehension problems, eh?

Ok, well do you eat things made with wheat? That's what seitan is made of.
I'm sure that somewhere in your diet there are things made from soy , as
tofu is. Considering you know nothing about my diet, (other than the fact
that i know what seitan is) how exactly can you make assumptions about how
it may be affecting my reasoning skills? In addition, every vegan i know is
well aware of the fact that animals die in the production of both their
'satples', as you put it, and many, many non-food items they use every day.
It is nearly unavoidable, just like the ingestion of trace pesticides is,
even if one eats all organic exclusively. The problem is not veganism, or
meat-eating, or any of that. The problem is we are all so detached from our
food to a degree where we really dont know where it comes from, or what
exactly was involved in the production of said victuals. All so some ag
conglomerates and chemical companies can make lots of $$ selling us all
tainted product on the cheap.

--
Saerah

TANSTAAFL

"We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Jonathan Ball wrote in message ...
>Saerah wrote:
>> Well, do you avoid all wheat, rice, and soy products?
>
>Why would I? What claim have I made about my diet that
>would necessitate doing that?
>

I simply do not understand how you can make such a big deal about the harm
nearly all food production does to animals, as a necessity of production or
not, without being bothered by it. If you are so well informed enough that
you rag on others who are (albeit uninfomed) trying to lessen their impact,
why do you keep eating the blood drenched food along with the rest of us? If
vegans shouldnt eat wheat rice and soy, why should meat eaters? i don't see
the logic in that, is all.

--
Saerah

TANSTAAFL

"We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Saerah wrote:

<snip>

> I simply do not understand how you can make such a big deal about the harm
> nearly all food production does to animals, as a necessity of production or
> not, without being bothered by it. If you are so well informed enough that
> you rag on others who are (albeit uninfomed) trying to lessen their impact,
> why do you keep eating the blood drenched food along with the rest of us? If
> vegans shouldnt eat wheat rice and soy, why should meat eaters? i don't see
> the logic in that, is all.

That's because there is none. It's purely a tactic to make people who
do care give up in despair because they cannot live a perfect life.
Ball, etter, and the others here feel that if they can make vegans
and vegetarians feel there is no use doing _anything_ if they cannot
do _everything_, vegans/vegetarians will stop criticizing even the
worst abuses of the meat industry, and the abusers will be able to
continue without hindrance. It's a silly tactic, but it often takes a
while for well-meaning, ethical people to see though it. A few, like
Dutch, never do, which is sad.

Rat
<snip>
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Saerah wrote:

> rick etter wrote in message ...
>
>>====================
>>Well duh. Where do you see that he said that? The comment was about how
>>much more damage is added by the other 2 'satples' of the typical vegan.
>>If rice causes this much, then how much more can a couple of process
>>intensive items cause. guess that idea goes right over your head though.
>>Must be your diet causing comprehension problems, eh?
>
>
> Ok, well do you eat things made with wheat? That's what seitan is made of.
> I'm sure that somewhere in your diet there are things made from soy , as
> tofu is. Considering you know nothing about my diet,

False. We know that animals are killed in the course
of growing, harvesting, storing, processing and
distributing the elements of your diet.

> (other than the fact
> that i know what seitan is) how exactly can you make assumptions about how
> it may be affecting my reasoning skills? In addition, every vegan i know is
> well aware of the fact that animals die in the production of both their
> 'satples', as you put it, and many, many non-food items they use every day.

No, most "vegans" either aren't aware of it, or have
some slight awareness but don't like to think of it.
One way or another, they make outrageous claims about
being "more ethical" than meat eaters, simply because
they don't consume any animal parts. Their ethical
claims are bullshit.

> It is nearly unavoidable, just like the ingestion of trace pesticides is,
> even if one eats all organic exclusively. The problem is not veganism, or
> meat-eating, or any of that. The problem is we are all so detached from our
> food to a degree where we really dont know where it comes from, or what
> exactly was involved in the production of said victuals. All so some ag
> conglomerates and chemical companies can make lots of $$ selling us all
> tainted product on the cheap.
>
> --
> Saerah
>
> TANSTAAFL
>
> "We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
> cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
> ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
> silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Jonathan Ball wrote in message ...
>Saerah wrote:
>> Ok, well do you eat things made with wheat? That's what seitan is made
of.
>> I'm sure that somewhere in your diet there are things made from soy , as
>> tofu is. Considering you know nothing about my diet,
>
>False. We know that animals are killed in the course
>of growing, harvesting, storing, processing and
>distributing the elements of your diet.
>

animals are killed in the course of growing and processing nearly EVERYONE'S
food. what is your point?

>> (other than the fact
>> that i know what seitan is) how exactly can you make assumptions about
how
>> it may be affecting my reasoning skills? In addition, every vegan i know
is
>> well aware of the fact that animals die in the production of both their
>> 'satples', as you put it, and many, many non-food items they use every
day.
>
>No, most "vegans" either aren't aware of it, or have
>some slight awareness but don't like to think of it.
>One way or another, they make outrageous claims about
>being "more ethical" than meat eaters, simply because
>they don't consume any animal parts. Their ethical
>claims are bullshit.
>

Well, perhaps its possible that the vegans i know are simply more aware of
these things.

--
Saerah

TANSTAAFL

"We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Saerah wrote:

> Jonathan Ball wrote in message ...
>
>>Saerah wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, well do you eat things made with wheat? That's what seitan is made
>
> of.
>
>>>I'm sure that somewhere in your diet there are things made from soy , as
>>>tofu is. Considering you know nothing about my diet,
>>
>>False. We know that animals are killed in the course
>>of growing, harvesting, storing, processing and
>>distributing the elements of your diet.
>>
>
>
> animals are killed in the course of growing and processing nearly EVERYONE'S
> food. what is your point?

My point, an excellent point, is that "vegans" are
lying when they claim to be leading "cruelty-free"
lifestyles. Another excellent point I make is that
"vegans" are not "minmizing" their death toll, as it is
trivially easy to show that some diet other than the
one any particular "vegan" follows could cause less death.

>
>
>>>(other than the fact
>>>that i know what seitan is) how exactly can you make assumptions about how
>>>it may be affecting my reasoning skills? In addition, every vegan i know
>>>is well aware of the fact that animals die in the production of both their
>>>'satples', as you put it, and many, many non-food items they use every day.
>
>>No, most "vegans" either aren't aware of it, or have
>>some slight awareness but don't like to think of it.
>>One way or another, they make outrageous claims about
>>being "more ethical" than meat eaters, simply because
>>they don't consume any animal parts. Their ethical
>>claims are bullshit.
>>
>
>
> Well, perhaps its possible that the vegans i know are simply more aware of
> these things.

They're still liars. They still are claiming to be
"minimizing" the animal suffering and death they cause,
and they are doing no such thing. Any "vegan" who eats
rice, and lots do, is not minimizing, but he still LIES
and claims he is.
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

"Saerah" <anisaerah RemoveThis @worldlinkisp.com> wrote in message
news:40059163_4@127.0.0.1...
>
> Jonathan Ball wrote in message ...
> >Saerah wrote:
> >> Ok, well do you eat things made with wheat? That's what seitan is made
> of.
> >> I'm sure that somewhere in your diet there are things made from soy ,
as
> >> tofu is. Considering you know nothing about my diet,
> >
> >False. We know that animals are killed in the course
> >of growing, harvesting, storing, processing and
> >distributing the elements of your diet.
> >
>
> animals are killed in the course of growing and processing nearly
EVERYONE'S
> food. what is your point?
==========================
That if you are vegan, then your claim is to care about animals, and to
reduce your bloody footprints as much as possible. You don't do that.
Instead, you follow a simple rule for simple minds, and automatically limit
your choices because of that rule. It's very easy to see how some meat
added to your diet now could result in a reduction of your impact on animals
and the environment. You won't even consider it though because of your
simple minds rule.


>
> >> (other than the fact
> >> that i know what seitan is) how exactly can you make assumptions about
> how
> >> it may be affecting my reasoning skills? In addition, every vegan i
know
> is
> >> well aware of the fact that animals die in the production of both their
> >> 'satples', as you put it, and many, many non-food items they use every
> day.
> >
> >No, most "vegans" either aren't aware of it, or have
> >some slight awareness but don't like to think of it.
> >One way or another, they make outrageous claims about
> >being "more ethical" than meat eaters, simply because
> >they don't consume any animal parts. Their ethical
> >claims are bullshit.
> >
>
> Well, perhaps its possible that the vegans i know are simply more aware of
> these things.
=================
Perhaps, you're still ignoring your impact though. You falsely believe that
just because you've eliminated meat that you diet is automatically better
regardless of what else you eat, as long as it's veggies.


>
> --
> Saerah
>
> TANSTAAFL
>
> "We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
> cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
> ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
> silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

"Saerah" <anisaerah.DeleteThis@worldlinkisp.com> wrote in message
news:40057e2e_4@127.0.0.1...
>
> rick etter wrote in message ...
> >====================
> >Well duh. Where do you see that he said that? The comment was about how
> >much more damage is added by the other 2 'satples' of the typical vegan.
> >If rice causes this much, then how much more can a couple of process
> >intensive items cause. guess that idea goes right over your head
though.
> >Must be your diet causing comprehension problems, eh?
>
> Ok, well do you eat things made with wheat?
=====================
Sure, so what? So do you? That wasn't the point of the post.


That's what seitan is made of.
> I'm sure that somewhere in your diet there are things made from soy , as
> tofu is.
==========================
Really? A side bar here....Can you explain why so many vegans go to such
great lengths to turn tofu into something that looks and tastes like meat?
Because by choosing the right meat, you'd cause far less death and suffering
of animals, and less environemental impact that processing soy to tofu.




Considering you know nothing about my diet, (other than the fact
> that i know what seitan is) how exactly can you make assumptions about how
> it may be affecting my reasoning skills?
========================
Cause, it seems all vegans here on usenet have an enormous problem with
comprehension skills...

In addition, every vegan i know is
> well aware of the fact that animals die in the production of both their
> 'satples', as you put it, and many, many non-food items they use every
day.
=====================
Yet you ignore them. Why, because as long as you profess your hatred of
meat, you all think the job is done and that life is hunky-dory.
You do that because you are too concerned with your convienece. Vegans here
do nothing to choose which of the foods in their own diets cause more/less
animal death and suffering. Why? Again, as long as you can spew your
vitriol abnout meat and meat eaters, you feel your doing something.
Proof? You say you are vegan to reduce you impact on animals and not to
kill/injure them needlessly, right? Then why are you posting to usenet for
nothing more than your selfish entertainment? You have no 'need' to post
here, and it contributes to the death and suffering of millions and millions
of animals every year, yet here you are.




> It is nearly unavoidable, just like the ingestion of trace pesticides is,
> even if one eats all organic exclusively. The problem is not veganism, or
> meat-eating, or any of that. The problem is we are all so detached from
our
> food to a degree where we really dont know where it comes from, or what
> exactly was involved in the production of said victuals. All so some ag
> conglomerates and chemical companies can make lots of $$ selling us all
> tainted product on the cheap.
====================
that applies far more to your diet than mine, as i replace 100s of 1000s of
calories with grass-fed beef rather than the same number of calories in
factory farmed crops.

>
> --
> Saerah
>
> TANSTAAFL
>
> "We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
> cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
> ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
> silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

"Saerah" <anisaerah DeleteThis @worldlinkisp.com> wrote in message
news:4005921b_4@127.0.0.1...
>
> Jonathan Ball wrote in message ...
> >Saerah wrote:
> >> Well, do you avoid all wheat, rice, and soy products?
> >
> >Why would I? What claim have I made about my diet that
> >would necessitate doing that?
> >
>
> I simply do not understand how you can make such a big deal about the harm
> nearly all food production does to animals, as a necessity of production
or
> not, without being bothered by it.
==============================
No more than you do? It's you that makes the claim of caring. Yet you do
nothing but follow a simple rule for simple minds, 'eat no meat.'
What does that accomplish? Can you really say it does? Which of your own
foods cause more/less suffering of animals, which cause more/less damage to
the environment. I doubt you know. Why? because you've been programmed to
believe that as long as you spew your rants about meat, your are doing
'better'.



If you are so well informed enough that
> you rag on others who are (albeit uninfomed) trying to lessen their
impact,
> why do you keep eating the blood drenched food along with the rest of us?
If
> vegans shouldnt eat wheat rice and soy, why should meat eaters? i don't
see
> the logic in that, is all.
=======================
He, and I, and most sane people don't go around making false claims about
why we eat what we do, and then try to convince ourselves that what we do is
somehow more ethical, more superior, and does more to 'save' anything.

>
> --
> Saerah
>
> TANSTAAFL
>
> "We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like
> cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the
> ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How
> silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Jonathan Ball <jonball RemoveThis @whitehouse.not> wrote in
news:kg0Nb.7974$1e.3886@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> Allyb wrote:
>
>> Anyone have good links regarding the environmental impact of rice
>> grown organically?
>
> Do the thousands of animals killed first in the
> flooding, then in the draining of a single rice field
> count as environmental damage?
>
>

There was a program on public television (HD Wttw) recently that focused
on all the animals that DEPEND on the cycle of rice fields--insects,
fish, amphibians, rodents, birds--all of whom were quite dependant on
the flooding and draining of rice fields in Japan. It was quite
interesting.

--
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice 

Rat & Swan wrote:

>
>
> Saerah wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I simply do not understand how you can make such a big deal about the
>> harm
>> nearly all food production does to animals, as a necessity of
>> production or
>> not, without being bothered by it. If you are so well informed enough
>> that
>> you rag on others who are (albeit uninfomed) trying to lessen their
>> impact,
>> why do you keep eating the blood drenched food along with the rest of
>> us? If
>> vegans shouldnt eat wheat rice and soy, why should meat eaters? i
>> don't see
>> the logic in that, is all.
>
>
> That's because there is none.

There is a remorseless, inexorable logic to it, and you
know it; your knowledge of it is what led you to suffer
a nervous breakdown in February 2000.
 >> Stay informed about: collateral damage of organic rice