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Nikki

External


Since: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:48 pm
Post subject: adopted dog - socialized problem
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>behavior (more info?)

I adopted a 7 yr old male golden retriever. He is very sweet dog, good with
people and children. The only problem with him is that he will lunge at
other dog whenever he see one. He is not aggressive type dog. I guess he
never socialize with other dogs before. I'd like to take him with me
anywhere if he is well behave. Anyone know how to resolve this problem. How
do I teach my dog not to lunge at other dog ?

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The Puppy Wizard

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 3494



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: adopted dog - socialized problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>behavior, others (more info?)

HOWEDY Nikki,

"Nikki" <nik02150.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tt2dnWhVNoTMuI3cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
> I adopted a 7 yr old male golden retriever.

A dog is a dog.

> He is very sweet dog, good with people and children.

And you're writing here today to share
your good forutne?

> The only problem with him is that he will
> lunge at other dog whenever he see one.

"He is very sweet dog, good with people and children."

Are you taking anti psychotic medication?

> He is not aggressive type dog.

"He is very sweet dog, good with people and children."

ONLY MENTAL CASES POST HERE.

> I guess he never socialize with other dogs before.

Your dog is FEAR AGGRESSIVE on accHOWENT
of you MISHANDLE him. ALL behavior problems
are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> I'd like to take him with me anywhere if he is well behave.

"He is very sweet dog, good with people and children."

You'll have to stop takin anti psychotics to
be a safe sane and responsible handler.

>Anyone know how to resolve this problem.

Most of the EXXXPERST here got the same problem.

> How do I teach my dog not to lunge at other dog ?

Date: 2002-06-04 22:04:48 PST

HOWEDY marybeth,

"MaryBeth" <marbeths.RemoveThis@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:3cfd7144$1_9@news.teranews.com...
>
> "BethF" <dawg.RemoveThis@alaskaDRINKME.com> wrote in message
> news:ufqsc1kr41g632@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > Hi Valerie
> > most of us have jerry killfiled so he doesn't
> > get under our skin at all

You read my posts first.

> Exactly.

BWWWWEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!

Got me laughin in Spanish...think I'm gonna pee myself.

> But then again only howdy thinks he does.

You've made HUNDREDS of daily posts warning
people about me, as have sindy 'don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon, lying lois, ed w of pet loss dot
CON, and a few others.

You and your Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thugs
are having a group psychotic breakdown just like
lyingdogDUMMY did.

You've been JERRYIZED.

There is a cure and I guarantee you I'm gonna like it.

> And, LOOK!, so does "Val".

Val came here Friday with a dangerous dog and
now has a perfectly well behaved dog 3 days later.
And he'll keep gettin better till he sits the bed.

> Hehehe

HOWEDY MENTAL CASES,

Where's HOWER pal marybeth?

"MaryBeth" <marbeths.RemoveThis@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:3cfcdcfb$2_8@news.teranews.com...
>
> "MaryBeth" <marbeths.RemoveThis@NOSPAMcomcast.net>
> wrote in message
>
> > Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M.
> > Holmes ?????
>
> Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie
> M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy's home.
>
> MB <G>

From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holmes.V@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST

HEY!!!

There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian who is a real
sweet dog with a few issues that I am working to resolve after
adopting her from a shelter she spent 2 years in. All I want
is to get some decent help for my dog.

There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual. My dog has
ACTUALLY been responding to her training. The deal is you
have to seperate your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the manual what you
want.

Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of the whole Jerry
thing. I have to say the guy is pretty clever, you're letting
him get under your skin. It makes for a very amusing game I
think. I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't be playing
everyday. He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't believe
that his method of training weren't valid.

Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far, using the
Witts End, I have gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to look
to me for direction, to wait for me to say when. I have
changed her from an aggressive dog to one who is willing to
please her owner, willing to listen, willing to assume her
role in the pack.

The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking

P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing into me, ok?

------------------------------------

Most of my students were having serious trouble
and many were told by their vet or behaviorists they
should KILL their dogs to be fair.

Many of my students were about to get DEAD just the
day before they started training in my method and
were CURED the next day.

My students CURE separation anxiety in one or two
days... SOMETIMES LESS. Marilyn sez my SA Technique
CURED her student INSTANTLY. You remember, that's
when you pal lying doc dermer killfiled Marilyn.

Speaking of which, he's offerd several hundred warnings
to DON'T LISTEN TO JERRY.

My students NEVER have another behavior problem
and never need a trainer. Their dogs come every time
they're called and most work better off lead than on,
cause the leash slows them down, gets in their way...

Hehehe.

My students train their dogs in record breaking time
and get perfect results nearly every time. My WORST
DOGS are BETTER then any dog you've ever imagined.

Mom Rambo, an 85 y.o. criple who couldn't even operate
a clicker cured her service dog's anxiety barking in ONE day.

Charlie W came here with an aggressive dog and trained
him in ONE day.

Elaine McClung turned her kat aggressive PB into pals
with them in about ten days JUST using my Doggy Do
Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo
Or Two Did Too) machine.

Her VETERINARIAN told her to kill IT.

AND IT STOPPED HER KATTERY FIGHTING AND
SPRAYING, AND IT CURES DIAREAHA IN NEWLY
RESCUED FERAL KATS.

Elaine McClung is animal comissioner of Brevard
Co FL and is involved with several rescue and
shelter programs. You can SPEAK to her if
you'd like...your pal lying frosty dahl did.

She's going to have to answer to the Elves about
slandering them libeling and their machine.

Desiree Webber CURED her aggressive Kat in a few
days, they were thinikng they'd have to KILL IT TOO!
Just my MAGICK BLACK BOX cured those and lots
lots MOORE LIVE critters right here.

Took Nevyn 23 days to train 2 female PBX's
not to fight. dr. ian dunbar won't even take a case
like that, and The Wizard does it from sittin right
here, stark ravin nekkid.

> Another clue for the spamming whanker.

Chris Williams sez my methods cured fear of thunder
in Mack.

Kay Pierce has a well behaved doberman three weeks
after starting my methods. She who was told she should
KILL IT , by her vet. She USED to be a trainer. NOW
she's studying with me and sending my manual to her
clubs and friends.

> MB <G>

Your own Robert Crim killed his dog Fritz doin it
your way...now he's my pal, and Rollie is my dog.

Melisand sez her three dogs stopped barking at
the door and she'd only got half way through the
manual.

Misty sez my DDR machine CURED her Cockatoo
of biting her son and screeching, in about ten days,
I think.

Misty border trained her dog to stay in her yard and
even allow her friends over to play, and stays behind
when they run along on their way... AFTER you and
your rat bastard pals LIED to her and told her my
methods are ineffective and dangerous and got her
other dog Peach DEAD for her.

Think about that, marybeth. You and your lying dog
abusing Thug pals have hurt and killed a lot of dogs here.

Marty B cured coprophagia in a couple days using
my methods.

Paul B broke his dogs of coprophagia and eatin
kat food and escaping in just a couple days.
Ask him... he's still posting as are Misty, Charlie,
perhaps even Robert Crim is readin right now? I'd
enjoy hearing from him and Rollie, wouldn't you
marybeth?

Only one problem. You won't be here when Robert
comes back. GUARANTEED.

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Friday, 5/31/02:
HOWEDY Valerie,

"Valerie M. Holmes" <Holmes.V.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:vVAJ8.14474$LC3.1002840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
....
> I recently adopted a female, spayed 3 1/2 yr old
> dalmatian from a no-kill shelter.

Nice goin.

> She spent 2 years in the shelter and naturally
> she has some socialization issues to overcome.

Naaah not naturally, anyHOWE. Kenneling for a long time
shouldn't have problems associated with it if the facility
was reasonable, and if they're not killin dogs they couldn't
be as cruel as our dog lovers janet boss john richardson
and mikey ball who gladly help dogs DIE.

> My problem is I am not quite sure HOW to tackle these
> issues. .

Don't worry about it! I got all the answers and none
of the calories. All ya got to do is agree to do anything
Jerry sez and you get the aluminum funnel hat, membership card,
secret password, secret
decoder ring, secret fan club privilidges, secret
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,
secret FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
member's benefits, and secret Contract Signed
In Werewoof And Elf Blood with a lifetime
GUARANTEE NEVER to have a dog behavior
problem again and your dog will ALWAYS
WANT to do as you ask.

IMPOSSIBLE? It gets EVEN BETTER! Stick around...

> 1. She is aggresive toward **ALL** other dogs,

Ooops! WE got a TOUGH problem here. I hope you're fit,
dog training is a physical skill not easily learned through
books, the written word just can't SHOW you the precise
moves necessary for commanding a dog.

Every dog is an individual, and we got to SEE the behaviors to
even GUESS what's going on with
your dog. THEN we got to formulate a training
program based on the individual dog's requirements
for physical and emotional PRESSURE and learn
the fine art of attrition and have the expertise to hurt
your dog PRECICELY, and ONLY WHEN NECESSARY.

But FIRST, a trip to the vet is in order. Any sudden changes in
behavior needs to be examined by the
veterinarian and he'll be able to give you a referral
to such an expert who knows HOWE and when to
HURT your dog properly to make it friendly or advise
you when to KILL IT TO BE FAIR.

So, tomorrow morning call your vet and make an appointment in 15
days to put your dog to sleep.
Ask him HOWE MUCH. Hang up the phone and
SPEAK TO NO ONE!!!

SAY NOTHING TILL you put that money into an
envelope with your dog's name PRINTED on it
in UPPER CASE thingys.

MAKE SURE you GO DIRECTLY TO THE BANK, SPEAK
NOTHING!, and withdraw ONLY NEW BILLS!

If you cannot obtain NEW currency KEEP GOIN!
We need CLEAN MONEY for this SACRIFICE.

When you accept this money DO NOT TOUCH!
HAVE THE TELLER PUT THE BILLS INTO THE
ENVELOPE AND SEAL IT.

ASK HER TO PRINT YOUR DOG'S NAME
ON THE BACK,

Ooops! DON'T! That's just an expression.

Hand the teller a note. DON'T SPEAK!

NOT THE FRONT. THE BACK OF THE
SACRIFICIAL ENVELOPE IN UPPER
CASE THINGY'S.

Now you can speak, but don't, nobody
will believe you. Trust me. Take the
envelope to your HOWES and put it
inside your pillow case and FORGET
ABOUT IT. Don't need that for two weeks yet.

> even dogs that have shown that they are
> willing to be submissive.

Oooops? What's that mean? I don't understand doggietalkie.

You mean she attacks other dogs, boys, girls,
puppys, all dogs? Good. That tells me we
consistency going for us to fix it.

When does she get an opportunity to have a dog cower?

> Upon sight of a dog, she lunges and snarls.

O.K., that's GOOD! That tells me we can
probably break the lunging in a few minutes
of work. Maybe five, but we'll need to repeat
it a few times to generalize the idea.

And we'll need to do a little work to learn to
handle her properly, maybe an hour over
several 15 minute sessions and a half dozen
5 minute sessions. I hope your ciphering is
keepin up with us.

> 2. She is usually kind and affectionate
> toward her owner (me),

Well, usually? I don't like usually. I like always,
consistent, 100%, that's what's good. Always
consistent. Consistent behaviors change to
other, often seemingly un related, consistent
behaviors.

Dogs like consistency too, but not repression.

You'll see.

> but recently began turning sour

Ooops! That's good. That tells me the rest of
the problem is as I thought, JUST a little
mishandling. I'll teach you every thing you
need to know. We're about half way
done training aready. WATCH!

> and for no apparent reason

All problem dog behaviors are a PREDICTABLE
direct result of our ineffective and inappropriate
responses to our dog's innate normal natural
instinctive reflexive responses to circumstances
of their environment WE create for them.

I'll teach you HOWE to train yourself to respond
differently to your dog's instinctive reflexes to you,
which will cause your dog to reflex differently to
your CONDITIONED reflexive responses and
interactions towards him, compelling him
to NATURALLY WANT to do EVERY THING
you ask, cause THAT'S THE NATURE OF
THE BEAST.

Once YOU have learned proper handling techniques
and appropriate non physical control through conditioned
distraction and praise *(ABOUT 2 HRS WORK, maybe
less,) you'll be able to negotiate any obstacle LIKE
MAGICK, relying on scientific conditioning and desensitization
techniques and demonstrated self
control as explained in our Contract.. err, your
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com .
Ahem.

Unless you got that one in a BAZILLION dog that's
gonna throw Jerry the dew claw. Don't let that happen.
I'll work you through the whole process and you'll see
results tommorow.

You'll have the behavior in pretty good shape
in a week, and in about ten days we should be
ready to start introducing her to a couple select
dogs in about fifteen minutes of work and then
we'll repeat that again a couple times and again
with a couple moore dogs and then we'll be
ready to start with the first dog again for the off
lead introduction and you're DONE.

Oooops! PROBLEMO. My arithmetic sez we're gonna
need a couple moore days to work this introduction
business till the aggression is thouroghly and permenantely
extinguished. If we break our Contract,
I'm err, shall we say OUTTA HERE FOREVER?

Of course I could handle this a lot faster in person
myself cause I can control you and your dog to insure
the result, so nobody's got to do nothin noHOWE,
but speak when I ask, and hush as I speak and relish
each word like candy you'd eat, and jump when I say,
ask HOWE HIGH and salute, and tout tributes to
Jerry's manual whenever you open your mouth...

That's all. Oh, and one other thing... I hope you don't
faint at the sight of blood. WE got to sign a contract.
HOWE MUCH do you want this dog to turn out
PERFECT in about two weeks? I'm willing to...shall
we say STAKE my ahahahahahaaaa, life on it???

BWWWWAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> and...

And NUTHIN. I REBUKE YOU IN THE NAME
OF SATAN, DOG LOVER!!!

You'll do as I say and dance when I speak...and sing
for your breakfast and beg for your treat ...I'll stop at
at nuthin to save your dog's life, include sell the souls
of my dog and my wife, to prove there's no way to make
a dog lover right. I'll go with The Devil to save our dog's
lives, I'll fight tooth and nail with guns and with knives,
I'm droppin the hammer on dog trainer's careers,
and takin their eye teeth along with their rears. They
been jerkin and chokin the life outta dogs and now I
got them all by their balls in my jaws...

Now go ahead and pinch my ears..., or just
make me laugh.

I just told you we figured out your dog's problem.

> snarls toward me!

Big deal. She won't do that noMOORE once
you learn to handle her like any of my students.

> This has completely destroyed the trust

What trust? The trust established with your
choke collar and corrections?

Don't worry about a thing. WE got a
CONTRACT. Remember?

> we were building over the past month.

BWWWWAJJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA!!!

Got me laughin in Spanish and I don't even speak
Spanish.

> 3. She deals with visitors,

Deals? Sounds tentative. She's just a little shy. Don't
worry about it. I'm the only game in town. I got the deal
and Jerry don't make no deals... Well not no moore,
since I'm temporarily HOWETA... mmm, currency.

Jerry don't compromise with dog lovers who prefer to
hurt and kill dogs than spend a couple hours trying to show the
dog HOWE to live instead of forcing IT to
choose the degree of pain it prefers to tolerate in
between spurts of life, anxiety, and repression.

> but is very anxious around people she doesn't know.

Shy. The anxiety is a result of punishment for being
aggressive cause she's shy, or maybe just from back
when a puppy jumpin up onto a guest and gettin kneed
in the chest or toes stepped on or alphaphalpha rolled
and growled into their throat pr just SCRUFF SHAKE
and screamed NO for 5 seconds or chin CHUKED and
bit on the ears till they piss themselves or jerked and
choked on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar or
burned with a medical grade static like stimulation device
or containment system like our dog lovers at k9 web and
cindy "don't let the dog SCREAM" mooron recommend TO ENHANCE THE
BOND between 'trainer' and dog.

Our traditional training methods are what's making
your dog turn on you for hurting and scaring her during
her meetings with other dogs. Our pal lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn and janet boss recommend pronged
spiked pinch choke and shock and citronella collars
for training this kind of dog... and they'd rather not put
IT through all that when there's SO MANY dogs that
are deserving of their HELP. And then they'll deny
it, despite it's archived FOREVER.

You see where WE're goin with all this? WATCH.

> At first she would scream if a stranger petted
> her with 2 hands.

I'd probably come real close to dropping the
hammer on them myself. My dogs will bite
you if a stranger meeting us put their hands
on us in a restraining manner. We don't like that.

Trust me. Strangers touching us means we got
to run and find an adult or a policeman. RIGHT?

Either that or...

> I just don't trust her around anyone yet.

Me too. I never trust a dog. I only trust my training methods and
then we don't got to worry about what
the heel the dog cares... who the heel's the
goddamned trainer, you or the dog?

THE DOG!

You got to TRAIN YOURSELF to reflex to his
needs properly and then he'll reflex to his natural
instinct and be able to use his dog skills as part
of your family pack, equally with you and the other
family members.

Every thing you've been taught about handling your dog
is DEAD WRONG and your dog is prima facia evidence
in Jerry's Giiihhhaaad against the dog behavior industry
for bringing us every dog behavior problem we've got.

> 4. She lunged at my sisters 2 year old

$#!T! You're gonna try and make this hard for
me aren't ya, pullin the fear/guilt double high
card trump tryin to make Old Jerry roll over
and piss himself with the 2 yo kid card???

NOTHIN DOIN! Get the heel outta here!

IN THE NAME OF SATAN I REBUKE YOU,
DOG LOVERS!!!

> the same way she lunged toward other
> dogs, aggressively.

Duh-Oh! Spooooookey!!!

BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> I really really like this dog,

THAT'S GREAT! I do too. I like all dogs on general principle and
individual dogs on merit and don't like
nobody no moore than me...and mine. You got your
copy of The Contract?

Don't worry about nuthin. Me an mine are
comin through this alive... sort of, in a sense.

> when she is calm and able to relax.

Vs what? I would like to know when she's not
calm and able to relax... tell us what she's doin.
THOSE are the anxiety relief mechanisms WE
need to deal with so I can fulfill OUR Contract
and... finish you off, and that little dog too!

> I want to keep her,

LIKEWISE. WE got a long term Contract.

Haven't we?

> but I don't really know what the best way
> to establish the necessary trust.

Yeah, as a matter of fact we got EXPERTS
here. Let me INTRODUCE you around?

> Any ideas out there?

Yeah. Our dog lovers were just on their way to
another forum. Weren't you, dog lovers?

We'll introduce our new found friends later.

Right now our OP's got some studying to do
before she has an accident cause she won't
know HOWE to handle her lead to stop
triggering her dog to pull if she's wastin
time with dog abusers who jerk and choke
dogs.

That's moore then half of what gets IT angry.

Now if this sounds too unbelievable I'll just up the ante.

I'll PAY YOU $10.00 / hr to study with me, IF YOU FAIL.
Call or write for details and agreement: 1 888 WITSEND.
Jerry. j;~)

Nevyn writes:

Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success Ive
had with your training manual! My two mutts have
gone from out-of-control psychos to obedient well
behaved companions within a matter of weeks! AND
My friends have seen the success and have asked
me to work on their dogs!

I was working with a 5 month old Ridgeback female
today and she was being an angel after like an hour
of working with her! it is AMAZING!!

I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes where
the "Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they have a degree?
A masters? a Phd? by the way? NO they are average joes
off the street who think they know how to train dogs!)

Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!

NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.

================

Never give out your password or credit card number in an
instant message conversation.

Nevyn says:
hello Jerry.

Jerry says:
HOWEDY Nevyn

Nevyn says:
How are you?

Jerry says:
sup?

Nevyn says:
Oh nothing

Nevyn says:

My dogs are alot better now!

Jerry says:
fine

Jerry says:
tell me

Nevyn says:
I can walk them on or off the leash and they don't give a #@%
about other
dogs

Jerry says:
naah

Nevyn says:
I can let them inside and they wont eat the cats

Jerry says:
naah

Nevyn says:
Yup

Jerry says:
what did you do, buy a shock collar?

Nevyn says:
No

Nevyn says:
Praised them

Jerry says:
ahh!

Jerry says:
you think they're 100% better

Nevyn says:
'cept they still bark at the neighbour but only coz he swears
at them and
pours water on them

Nevyn says:
nahh they still have stinky breath!

Nevyn says:
muahaha

Jerry says:
ok

Jerry says:
I'll go for that

Jerry says:
it'll take a couple more days to break the neighbor thing if
you're
consistent

Jerry says:
then he won't swear and throw water at them

Nevyn says:
yeah but he's only out on the weekends

Jerry says:
but they'll still have stinky breath

Nevyn says:
muahahaha

Jerry says:
you gonna write the group and tell them they're suckin hind
teat?

Nevyn says:
eh

Nevyn says:
nah

Nevyn says:
cant

Nevyn says:
my news server isn't workin

Nevyn says:
how about u just screenshot or copy this chat and post it

Jerry says:
why not.

Nevyn says:
sorry been tryin all day to get on the news server

Jerry says:
you got anything you'd like to tell the dog lovers who would
prefer
to see you choke and shock and lock your dogs in a box?

Jerry says:
I guess you don't want to tell them nuthin that they don't
already know,
huh?

Nevyn says:
hah

Nevyn says:
tell them they're fuckers who need to die

Nevyn says:
dogs aren't for abusing they are for loving they love so much

Jerry says:
that's HOWE COME they got me now

Jerry says:
howe much training time did it take for the two of 'em?

Nevyn says:
pfftt

Nevyn says:
it didn't even seem like training

Nevyn says:
its been 24 days since I got your manual

Jerry says:
pfffttt!!!!

Jerry says:
hhahahahaha

Jerry says:
have you got that feeling that they're in tune with EVERYTHING
you're
wanting them to do?

Jerry says:
I forgot what city you're in.

Jerry says:
maybe if you're near alphalpha sweeny you can swing by and
LAUGH your ass
off at him growling at his dogs???

Jerry says:
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Nevyn says:
LOL

Nevyn says:
I'm in Perth, Australia!

Nevyn says:
and yes they do seem to be in tune

=====================

Nevyn says:
oh!! the other day my dogs went into submissive position when
a tiny little toy poodle came up barking at them! !LOL

Jerry says:
EXCELLENT!

Nevyn says:
lol

Jerry says:
they knew they didn't need to fight, cause everything was in
your expert control.

Keep up the good work. j;~)
-----------------

From: Nevyn (alien4@wasp.net.au)
Date: 2002-03-01 03:15:50 PST

Hello

I have two mungrel females; the breeds exactly
are Blue Heeler (spots) x Kelpi (dominant genes)
x American Pitbull (behavioural) x Pug (don't laugh!).

They are gentle loving dogs when I'm at home
with them, and they are friendly with unknown
people. They are sisters. One is obviously dominant
over the other, and I don't have a problem with that,
however;

Their behaviour is very odd. Some days they
are very good whilst I'm walking them, some
days they are not. They are 3 years old and
have only been walking for about 12 months
because my mom didn't walk them and now
I'm home so I walk them for about an hour
and half every afternoon. I take them to the
park where they chase birds and swim in the lake.

This is my problem :

The less-dominant dog viscously barks at
every other dog we walk past; I have tried
using a stick and giving her a tap when
she does it, and treating her with treats
when she doesn't, using a choke chain,
a muzzle and a thing that sprays stuff
in her mouth when she barks.

She won't stop! Does anyone know how I can stop her? ]

Also, the more-dominant dog seems to know
this is WRONG, when the other dog barks,
she doesn't bark, but she nips at the other
dog as if telling her to cut it out, and then
the barking one attacks the more-dominant
one and they fight on the leash... it is
quite disturbing to the people walking past.

And also the more-dominant one is okay around other
dogs... SOMETIMES... sometimes she completely ignores
them, and yet other times she will attack them, like yesterday.

The less dominant one I must keep on a
leash if a person brings there dog to the park.

How do I stop them attacking other dogs?

I have tried all the methods I have used
above for 10 months every afternoon.
Is it just a pack-behaviour thing?

It can really be quite embarrassing when your
dogs attack some old lady's or little girl's dog.

They are good dogs, when at home or when
there are no other dogs around. Today there
were hundreds of sparrows flying around the
park and they were chasing them and jumping
up trying to catch them for more than 90 minutes
(They went straight to bed when I bought them home!).

Can anyone help me? Email me at my emails
address, alien4.RemoveThis@wasp.net.au coz this list is
tooo crowded.

Thanks,
Nevyn



MaryBeth, QUEEN OF THE RPD* MENTALLY
ILL ALLSTARS MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*

Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think it's
only fair that we have an accurate list of who is and who
isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any misunderstandings
and promote group harmony.

MaryBeth
MVP (most valuable psycho)


Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid, has suffered from or been:

suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of
PMS, mood swings, turned into a hermit,
bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid of
her, high blood pressure, divorced,
"raving bitch" "zoloft zombie" for four
years, "living through layers and layers
of gauze," chain smoker, buzzing, weight
gain, fatigue, terrible dry mouth, dull
headaches, fuzzy brain, lack of
concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you
name it...etc...

MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell

"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."

"<G> I do know the power of meds,
especially on a long term basis, and it's
not pretty. You become another person, if
it's not the correct med for you.

--All the best,
MaryBeth

"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."

"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for
menopause."

--MaryBeth

"I noticed that antidepressants cut
libido into the dead zone and I had no
real emotions, like not laughing at funny
stuff, couldn't cry either.....except about
my suicidal thoughts (but at the time I
thought there was no other way out)."

--MaryBeth

"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid
today. I talked with RE and pharmacist re:
zoloft 50 mg daily) and ineraction with
Clomid.
They reported none. Not sure about the
prozac tho. Gonna poat a new message to
intorduce myself :)"

--MaryBeth <still feeling like herself>
<G>

"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and
lost many many treasured ppl and things.
Please don't do the same.
(((((((SCOUT))))))))))

--MaryBeth

"Slowly but surely my depression got worse
and worse. They put me on meds for it, and
all along kept telling me to wait on the
TKR, as 'it really wasn't that
bad.....yet". HA!" The depression got so
bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve
gone thru"

--MaryBeth

The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk
with you and you will know each other.

If you do not talk to them, you will not know
them, and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from
the few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain
ill.),"
--Marshall

The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect
synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed, ego,
fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy, embarrassment,
embellishment, shame, guilt, anger, aversion, attraction,
revulsion, change, permanence, enlightenment, insult,
attrition, and conditioning.

It's the perfect fusion of The Word..., in the physical.

It's time for the dog training industry and the
universities who TEACH "behaiviorists" to DEFEND
THEIR METHODS against 100% NEAR INSTANT TOTAL
SUCCESS as PROVEN by the cHOWENTLESS NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Student's REPORTS, after
they've TRIED ALL OTHER METHODS and FAILED.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
~ Mohandas Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from
his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <dermer.RemoveThis@csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePuppyWizard.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, July
> 23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
>
>
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
>
> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.
>
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
> alert the world to animal abuse.
>
> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.
>
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
>
> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?
>
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
>
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
>
> --Marshall Dermer
> --------------------------------------

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

GOT MILK?

 >> Stay informed about: adopted dog - socialized problem 
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The Puppy Wizard

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 3494



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: adopted dog - socialized problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

HOWEDY Nikki,

"Nikki" <nik02150 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tt2dnWhVNoTMuI3cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
> I adopted a 7 yr old male golden retriever.

Only mental cases liars and dog abusers post here.

HOWEDY People,

From: The Puppy Wizard (ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: For "Tool Cool"
Date: 2004-07-28 22:33:40 PST

HOWEDY bigb,

"BigB" <delaby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CgYNc.15155$DZ.908127@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> Contrary to the 1900-1975 theorists

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is a uneducated
backyard shade tree shit kicking dog trainer
who can barely SPELL. HE got problems
understanding big words. Like "theorists,"
for EXXXAMPLE.

Ain't a THEORIST someWON who ain't
PROVEN his suppositions?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard never quotes
other researchers unless HE is CHOKING
them with their own words, and simplifying
terminology to eschew obsfucation.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard's doesn't teach
THEORIES or cite other's works on accHOWENT
of others don't GET 100% CONSISTENT NEARLY
INSTANT SUCCESS doin WHATEVER.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches HIS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students all over the Whole Wild World HOWE to
train all dogs for all behaviors, the same same same same.

You know, the WONS you and your newest
employee, a self admitted active mental patient
and proven liar and dog abuser calls FORGERIES
and LIARS.

> who thought conditioning was a mechanical,
> blind, automatic, unthinking process,

It is. Like when someWON throws a ball at
your face you and get hit. Next time you blink.
With repetition youmight condition a MOORE
resourcesful reflex like ducking. As you de-
condition your fears you may condition yourself
to catch it.

We can do that with any dog. He doesn't
PLAN to catch the ball when he's first
introduced to it, he's responding strictly
on visual / oral reflex.

After the conditioning is done, catching is
installed as a reflex, unless you are CON-
SCIHOWESLY thinking of the action, like
in a game of catch. That's when the dog
will accidentally tip the ball with his nose
and have to go chase it.

CONversly, as the action of the CONcentration
increases, say as in a martial arts competition,
the players might override their CON-SCIHOWES
ability to think and plan moves and rely strictly on
reflex. That's HOWE COME the dog may accidentally
nip you while playing with the ball.

THAT'S HOWE COME highly conditioned
reflexes say as in a pro baseball player
FAIL to make EVERYcatch cause they're
CONCENTRATING but NOT ENOUGH,
therebye not accessing their conditioned
reflexive responses.

> there is growing evidence that thinking
> is very much involved in conditioning.

AbHOWET as much thinking as required
for a worm to go roHOWEND the perimeter
of a plate thinking he's gettin away.

> In fact, the connection between the conditioned
> stimulus or CS (tone or rat) and the unconditioned
> stimulus or UCS (food or loud noise) must make
> sense and be useful,

Not so, or we couldn't link them to other
non related cues and trip them at will,
just as though the subject was presented
the rat or whatever.

> otherwise an animal or human won't learn
> that connection.

The subject doesn't gotta know or learn nuthin.
Dr. Phil sez "modern therapists can extinguish
phobias in 12 HOWERS." The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students do THAT in minutes.

> Example:

You got any dog trainin EXXXAMPLES? Anything
like dozens of 100% CONSISTENTLY EXXXACTLY
SIMILAR CASE HISTORIES from a wide selection
of unrelated test subjects in uncontrolled environments
CURING ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS NEARLY
INSTANTLY USING "ONLY WON METHOD"?

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual."

> An adult would certainly start to salivate to a
> bell (or smell of a bakery) signaling food is near
> by. But an adult (or a 4-year-old) probably
> wouldn't develop a fear of a little kitten under
> the same conditions as Little Albert with the rat.

That doesn't stand to reason.

> Adults know kittens don't make banging noises.

Any of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students know HOWE to do just THAT if they
so desired, in moments, or could EXXXTINGUISH
a phobia in a baby or adult JUST LIKE THAT.

Cause it's all the same same same same
regardless of what labels and alphabet soup
you're throwin a it. Conditioning IS conditioing
and the HOWE'S are all that's required. We
don't gotta know the history of a phobia all we
gotta do is know HOWE to EXXXTINGUISH or
INSTALL it.

> Even "lower organisms" have an idea about
> what is most likely to make them sick,

You mean you don't need to poison proof them?

You mean like perry aka bentcajungirl's DEAD
DOG Maggie learned not to eat Gorilla Glue?
She puked her bloody guts HOWET on the
kitchen floor an shit the bed learnin HOWE
to not eat poison.

> so rats, for instance, associate eating or drinking
> something with nausea

Perhaps you should study your FREE copy of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and
learn HOWE to poison proof them. It only takes
a few minutes... CuriHOWES ain't it, HOWE
The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches EVERY
THING in a measly 74 pages, ain't it.

> much faster than a tone with nausea.

Although that may be according to your methods,
it doesn't need to be so, according to MOORE
EFFECTIVE methods. A rat that's had some pryor
conditioning would learn in WON instances.

> Thus, a mass of research demonstrates that
> animals (and humans) aren't stupid;

Smart / stupid ain't got nuthin to do with
reflexive scientific conditioning. Effective
scientific techniques do not vary according
to the whim of the subject, the subject is
CONditioned to the techniqe.

All you gotta do is be smart enough to pull it off.
CONSISTENTLY. With a wide range of test subjects.
Like we got right here on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forum.

LOOK ARHOWEND.

You're settin in it. Take off your shoes. RELAX.
Care for a stick of gum? Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
If you ain't got 'em get 'em.

> they are thinking and adapting; they don't learn
> just any useless pairing of two stimuli together,

What LEARN? We condition a reflex and
override the thought process as EXXXPLAINED
above in the EXXXAMPLE of the martial arts
competitors Vs the baseball player in his lower
funcitional state of alertness. NHOWE, look at
the same player in a triple play scenario. He's
not THINKING he's REFLEXING, as his functional
reserve capacities are called into play, i.e.
CONDITIONED REFLEX.

> but where it is very useful, one-trial learning can occur.

Not LEARNING, as the thought process had
never been used. Even if we've CONDITIONED
a vomitus rattus to a S-HOWEND using pictures
of rats being eaten by kats, the S-HOWEND triggers
nausea based on fear or empathy, but not thougts
of the bait. Give the S-HOWEND and force the rattus
to ingest the poisonHOWES RATTUS tidbitus, and the
S-HOWEND will be reinforced. Pair THAT state of mind
with another cue, and you'll further intensify the experience
when that trigger is introduced.

Removing the conditioned response or changing
it is similarly EZ if you know HOWE.

> The classically conditioned stimuli (tone) must
> truly predict the unconditioned stimuli (food),
> thus helping the animal be forewarned and to
> adapt, before the animal will learn the connection.

Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME these THEORISTS
are having no LUCK installing a conditioned reflex?
That food they're using distracts the rattus subjectus
from the conditioned reflexus rattus.

> Similarly, the reinforcement must truly be
> contingent on the behavior before operant
> learning occurs.

Well then, you'll never install a condtioned
reflex if you're waiting for the subject to
think it through. We show the rattus subjectus
a picture of a salami and simultaneHOWESLY
show him a pic of his mommy and little sister
bein ate by Felix The Kat coincidental to the
S-HOWED and remove all stimuli not giving
the subjectus rattus his salamie.

Next, distract subjectus rattus for a moment,
maybe tempting him with a bevy of scantily
clad working lady ratti, and repeat the process
maybe four times.

Just offering the salamie will sicken the
subject, presenting the S-HOWEND will
intensify it, and showing a pic of Felix
likely throw him into CONvulsions.

Randomly introduce these stimuli
just a few times and you'll drive the
subjectus rattus into OCD's and seizures.

> The learner--animal or human--is involved
> in a complex cognitive process of calculating
> the relationships between stimuli in the
> environment and behavioral reactions.

Naaah. He's not thinkin rationally AT ALL
or he'd REALIZE his momma never saw
a kat, that he'd never had a sister and Felix
has been a vegan since the sixties when was
at Harvard with Drs. Leary and Alpert.

To EXXXTINGUISH his OCD's, simply
show him pictures each time his OCD
presents itsself of his former professors
and you'll collapse the vomitus rattus's
mental illness.

> The organism is figuring out what is going on-

NOT if we're installing a conditioned reflex.

> -what causes what or what leads to what

No. In order to effectively install a conditioned
reflex the subjuctus rattus must not be allHOWED
to eat or otherWIZE be physically distracted from
the technique untill each session is complete.

> (called cognitive maps)--and then acts to
> get the reinforcer (reward).

REWARD??? The Amazing Puppy Wizard
uses NO rewards cause dogs don't work
for credit nor do they reflect on their work.
Conditioned reflexes are not thought HOWET
they're REFLEXED to, as a fighter will override
CONSCIHOWES meaningful planned moves
in favor of his subconsciHOWES reflexive
responses, just as a baseball player kicks into
his reflexive functional reserves to make a
dHOWEBLE play.

> You can read the rest of this article here....

<snip link>

You can read your FREE copy of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual here: http://www.doggydoright.com

> Now please ....go away!

Wasn't we fixin to talk behaviorISM?

> BD

From: Paul B (panders@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Can packleader influence rank?
Date: 2002-02-25 00:51:48 PST

I use sound to distract the dog and praise it
immediately. The reason for the immediate
praise is that as soon as the dog is distracted
it's no longer thinking of the inappropriate
behaviour so the praise reinforces the "not
doing" the unwanted behaviour.

I use various sound sources, a soda can
with stones in it, car keys, Click my fingers,
etc. Varying the direction of the sound each
time is important too, otherwise the dog may
begin to anticipate the sound and it will lose
it's effect, if the noise direction is random the
dog won't get too familiar with it and it will
remain an effective distraction.

Remember too that we aren't trying to scare
the bejesus outta the dog, simply breaking it's
train of thought while it's thinking of the unwanted
behaviour.

Sometimes you won't even see a reaction
but the dog will have been distracted fleetingly.
(Recently one of my dogs started habitually
licking my feet while I was watching TV, I clicked
my fingers on her left side and told her "good girl"
even though she only paused her licking briefly,
next I clicked over her right side and praised, by
about the 4th repeat she suddenly stopped, I
repeated this over a few nights and now she
doesn't lick any more, on the few occasions she
absent mindedly licks now all I do is click and
praise and she immediately stops).

Timing is important too, learn to anticipate
when the dog isthinking about doing the
"dirty deed" and distract and praise then,
with any luck the dog will try again almost
immediately so distract and praise again,
if the timing is correct after about the 4th
rep the dog will stop.

I could go on but this post is long enough
already, remember too that the dog isn't
being a "bad dog", it's behaviour is simply
inappropriate for the circumstances.

Happy training, :-)

Paul

==========================

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual."

Disciple Paulie Writes:

I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
find your dog thinking then responding everytime.

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.

Paul.

========================

Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits
End Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey
Nicey And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is
Built On Trust And Understanding."


"Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks,
so is he." Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073

"We are what we do."

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
>> is an important part of the process.

And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.

His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

--Marshall

=================

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer RemoveThis @alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@uwm.edu...
>
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpanders@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST

Hello Marshall,

The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.

The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.

A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.

One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.

While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.

> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:

"Estel J. Hines" <ejhines RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
>>> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reduction,
>>> it went something like this with our 11 month old
>>> puppy "Yoshi"
>>> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>>> us: HUSH Youshi
>>> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>>> us: Hush Youshi
>>> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................
>>> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>>> We decided to try the Jerry method
>>> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>>> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>>> Yoshi Bark, Bark
>>> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>>> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>>> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
>>> can praise him, to deal with things like this
>>> Thanks Jerry
>>> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
>>> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
>>> "Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Estel J. Hines

==============

> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!

Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.


Subject: Re: Lab/Rot 11 Months (TEMPER PROBLEMS)
Date: 2004-05-21 19:22:05 PST

> "Zack Pellers" <ZackPellers RemoveThis @GUESSWHERE.cc>
> wrote in message
> dlinge1 RemoveThis @towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
> 697700b8.0405202039.5c7374b9 RemoveThis @posting.google.com:
>
> Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
>
> Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com
>
> You can start by downloading the free training
> manual available on the site above. I used it on
> my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.
>
> When I first brought him home from rescue, he
> was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
> After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
> was cured within 72 hours.
>
> -Jack


"Leprechaun" <Leprechaun RemoveThis @attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:m01Hc.20882$uK.16329@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

> >Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
>
> Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
> I took a rescued three year old beagle that
> had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
> even recognize or respond to its name to
> Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
> get real) and in just over one hour of working
> with the dog, he was coming on command
> (not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
> walking with us on a loose lead.
>
> His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
> command and pack exercise WORK!
>
> > and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
>
> Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
>
> You don't have to like him. You don't have
> to agree with his methods, but as far as I
> am concerned, I've never seen any other
> training approach that was as fast and easy.
>
> <<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
>
> Ron Flanagan
> Orlando, Florida

-----------------------


"Nevyn" <greatdane RemoveThis @badmama.com.au> wrote in message
news:1061695905.896739@grimiore.conceptual.net.au...

HOWEDY Group,

Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using
JERRY'S MANUAL

1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking,
aggressive, pulled on leash, wanted to kill
any dogs they saw, fought between each other.

TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual, they
were calm, friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.

3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!

Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !

4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!

5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !

Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.

6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!

BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!

Nevyn

"Ned" <komodo71 RemoveThis @rogers.com> wrote in message
news:fQIg9.25850$561.25365@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

> Hi !
> Our black lab girl is 3 months old (she will be 4 months
> on the 30th).
>
> When we first brought her home she had a bad habit
> of trying to nip our faces (including my 3 year old twins)
> during playtime. It drove everyone in the house nuts
> and it brought my little girls to tears as you can imagine.
>
> We tried saying no, and that would just get her even
> more excited, so we would yell no and that would just
> get her "scared" but still excited. In short it just wasn't
> working.
>
> So we finally did what Jerry has suggested to you.
> We used a sound do distract her and we would
> immediately praise her.
>
> I have to say that it worked great. BUT she then
> moved on to nipping at the feet LOL silly little thing.
>
> So again, we tried no, and then louder no, but again
> it didn't work so we went for the distraction and praise.
> I must say that she is doing great!
>
> I hope that helps.
> Edyta aka Ned

===================

Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM

Hello.

I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.

I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.

Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.

I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.

I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.

A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.

We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.

So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.

His method worked for us.

I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.

Florence
------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: "nicole" <To: "Jerald D. Howe">
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Off to a good start!

Hi Jerald, Just wanted to tell you we read
your manual and have started working with
the dogs...

"Chloe" (the one we adopted--a. k. a.
"The Destroyer") has already shown
great improvement! (In Just 1 DAY!)

She responds even better than our other
(better-behaved) dog "Poe".

We tried out the surrogate toy technique, and
not a thing was touched when we got back!

We were both surprised because Chloe isn't
that interested in toys and was still very uptight
about us reaching for the door... anyway, it
seemed to work.

We both work all day today so we'll see
how that goes... Regardless, we will be
cool as cukes when we get home! ;)

I'm just so thankful we might have a chance
to get through to her! We're very excited about
her progress thus far...

Thank You!

Nicole, Michael, Poe and especially Chloe!

__________________________________

> Sound distraction may be understood in
> terms of the more general behavior analytic
> approach as follows.
>
> The distracting stimulus

Like a SCRUFF SHAKE, professor?

>evokes a behavior that is incompatible with barking.

You mean like SCREAMING "NO!" into ITS face
for 5 seconds?

> The dog engages in some other behavior

NO, professor SCRUFF SHAKE.

THAT AIN'T HOWE IT WORKS.

> and then is reinforced (if praise functions as a
> reinforcer).

NO, professor. You don't UNDERSTAND the METHOD.

> --Marshal

And BYE THE BYE, professor, The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's METHOD IS SCIENTIFICALLY
INDEPENDENTLY PROVEN through OBSERVATION
of HIS DDR operating withHOWET human intervention.

REMEMBER? Or perhaps you FORGOT?

"misty" <Momisty RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1199-3BD34D6A-229@storefull-235.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I
> have a very loud cockatoo who has been having problems
> adjusting to my 8 month old son.
>
> Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy's cage
> as a hold on for dear life object.
>
> Buddy wasn't exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my
> older two boys went through this stage in a different
> house where Buddy had his own room and the boys had
> only visits, not daily contact 24/7.
>
> Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey
> has been driving him nuts! He showed his disapproval
> by non-stop screaming.
>
> A cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with
> all the widows shut <g> being in the house it makes
> your ears pop and your nerves crawl.
>
> Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on
> how to use it. He answered my questions quite politely.
> I have been using the DDR in my kitchen ( where Buddy
> is located~ teensy 4 room house) for 3 weeks.
>
> At first I noticed no difference in Buddy's behavior.
> Then I realized after a week that he no longer screamed
> for hours on end. This isn't to say he stopped completely
> <bg> he still demands his share of all meals. But he
> doesn't start screaming at 10 pm when he wants _everyone_
> to go to bed.
>
> Last week he had a day where he screamed all day. My
> nerves were frazzled. I went to turn the DDR up a
> notch per Jerry's instructions.
>
> I discovered the DDR was shut off! I turned it back
> on and left it on the lowest setting. Buddy calmed
> back down and quit screaming.
>
> In the time that I've had the DDR on I've had a lot
> of c*ts come to my house. One I adopted and he's
> quite the sweetie. He's a yellow tiger named Gatomon
> ( means c*t monster) who is very friendly with my kids
> and Zelda.
>
> I may not like how Jerry treats other posters but I
> do like the methods he shares. Being on a limited
> budget I like things that are free. I also like the
> fact that I can e-mail him and get advice whenever
> I need it.
>
> Even my DH who is a technical minded kind of guy
> thinks the DDR is working. ( He went to Devry and
> has a degree in electronics, knows alot about radios
> and anything mechanical... he's a jack of all trades
> around the house <g>). He does NDT for a living.
> We don't expect to need the DDR forever.. As soon as
> Joey is walking, Buddy will realize that he's not a
> strange animal.. some kind of furless dog or c*t <bg>.

==============================

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpanders@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?
Date: 2001-07-03 03:05:59 PST

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies to
every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Paul.

--------------------------

The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child
is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE
NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
of their environment which we create for them.

ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

"Ted Rumple" <rumplemint RemoveThis @kalbar.net> wrote in message
news:30aa784b.0309290208.135e9ab1@posting.google.com...
>
> Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
> created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
>
> I can't wait until the new version is available for human
> children!
>
> Thank you for your service to humanity!

ANAL-yize THIS, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

THAT'S INSANE. AIN'T IT, professor dermer.

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >

P.S. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect
synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed, ego,
fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy, embarrassment,
embellishment, shame, guilt, anger, aversion, attraction,
revulsion, change, permanence, enlightenment, insult,
attrition, and conditioning.

It's the perfect fusion of The Word..., in the physical.

It's time for the dog training industry and the
universities who TEACH "behaiviorists" to DEFEND
THEIR METHODS against 100% NEAR INSTANT TOTAL
SUCCESS as PROVEN by the cHOWENTLESS NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Student's REPORTS, after
they've TRIED ALL OTHER METHODS and FAILED.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
~ Mohandas Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from
his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <dermer RemoveThis @csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard RemoveThis @earthlink.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
> Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
>
>
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
>
> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.
>
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
> alert the world to animal abuse.
>
> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.
>
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
>
> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?
>
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
>
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
>
> --Marshall Dermer
> --------------------------------------

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

GOT MILK?


HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,

"Lynn K." <javagsd RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.0404241938.5247e136@posting.google.com...
> dfrntdrums RemoveThis @aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20040421153751.07978.00000066 RemoveThis @mb-m27.aol.com>...
>
> > I get paid per dog, not hourly.
>
> Appropriately, since that's how the business gets paid :-)
>
> I think this is the break you've been looking for -

INDEED. leah is a FRAUD as a trainer. Like yourself.

> Hooray!

INDEED? Her recent "GRADUATE STUDENT"
Rottie just MURDERED a dog in the park. Her
own dog bit her five times, destroyed her HOWES
and ruined her marriage. She MURDERED her
DEAD DOG Buck cause she was TOO LAZY to
walk him and TOO STUPID to cut salt from his
congestive heart failure diet and lasix and wouldn't
stop feedin him french fries and pizza so he needed
to be walked every two HOWERS and leah couldn't
DO that what with her CFS and SAD and ANTI
PSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS.

> You're going to be seeing tons more
> dogs than you ever had at PetsMart,

Not likely.

> and in a situation you can control.

Like when she's walking her own dog
aggressive dog, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn? Seems leah has recently taken her
own dog to the "behaviorist" for dog aggression.

> I took a look at her site and it'spretty clear that
> she's gearing up to do some major behavior
> education in the next year or so,

INDEEDY. The Amazing Puppy Wizard is
reviewing her site as we speak...

> and you'll get the benefit of all the things she's learning.

INDEED. She's LEARNING, she's an INCOMPTETNT
BLOWHARD, like yourself. She's LEARNING from
ACTIVE INCURABLE LONG TERM MENTAL CASES,
like yourself.

> Lynn K.

And she HIRED a PROVEN LYING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASE, like yourself.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats. Don't bother. The answer is never."

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

ginger57 RemoveThis @my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled). If the dog makes an
aggressive move towards the cat, it must be corrected strongly
with both your voice and the collar. This is important - the
correction must be physically very strong - not a nag. (PS:
not many dogs need to be corrected at all)."


lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------

"Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Is that a MENTAL CASE or NOT?

NHOWE here she's gonna lie abHOWET IT:

> Lynn K. wrote:
> > Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >
> >>Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.
> >>In the posts below you take responsibility for making those
> >> calls.
> >>In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.
> >>Which one is it?
> :
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------

Seems the ONLY thing your lyin dog abusin
punk thug coward pal NEVER DENIED is THIS:


WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.


-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND
LOIS Almost 50 years on mental illness medications
combined

-----------------------------------------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was the fact that
> Darlene actually stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work for her--so she
> was prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------



LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com) Subject: Re: Where is
Darlene? Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of watered down for the
mass market, if you know what I mean. There's really quite
a lot of good work out there and decent research. Thank
God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!!
CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on
TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly, 'I
take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (garyl@bmi.net) Subject: Re: Where
is Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's father
locked her in her room back in the twenties because she was
simple. A shame that medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's personality,
she has a way of making grandiose plans when at the top of
her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't saying that
anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
-------------------------------------

And THAT's HOWE COME The Puppy Wizard's
DADDY SEZ "You're JUDGED BY the company
you keep. When you lie with PIGS you'll awaken
STINKIN like 'em."

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
 >> Stay informed about: adopted dog - socialized problem 
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Since: Aug 25, 2004
Posts: 111