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Next: THIS GROUP IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BUNCH OF FAGS, ..
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Since: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 14
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:13 am
Post subject: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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Here's the noted "ar" liar "St" Tom's quote:
Professor Cohen surely must know that many drugs
that have cleared animal tests are later found to be
toxic for humans. A 1990 report issued by the
General Accounting Office found that approximately
50 percent of the FDA-approved drugs investigated
either had to be taken off the market or relabeled
because of their toxic effects on the people who
were using them.
The liar "St" Tom is talking about FDA-approved drugs.
If they're FDA-approved, that means *necessarily*
they were not "removed" from the approval process short
of approval by any of the three phases of human
clinical trials that occur prior to approval. Rather,
they are relabeled or, rarely, withdrawn following
approval when some problem with them develops, a
problem that the three phases of human clinical trials
did NOT catch.
When such a problem appears, lying "aras" absurdly
single out the pre-approval testing phase that had the
LEAST to do with establishing safety of the compound
for prescription to humans, and say that it is
"unreliable" and should be discontinued. That is the
great, vile "ar" lie of omission: they omit to
acknowledge that three phases of human testing also
were required for approval, and these three phases were
much more deliberately focused on establishing safety
of the drug. If the drug "fails", it should be the
human testing phases that are attacked, if anything.
But that doesn't suit the lying "aras'" polemical
purpose: they prefer to lie. The vile polemicis "St."
Tom Regan certainly lies, as he makes no mention of
human testing, and does not acknowledge the several
instances where Professor Cohen says it.
The quote should read:
Professor Regan surely must know that all drugs that
receive FDA approval and subsequently cause human
injury or death passed three phases of human
clinical trials in addition to the one animal
testing phase that wasn't even intended to establish
general human safety. So why does he lie by
omission and ridiculously try to make the animal
testing carry all the moral weight of the failure? >> Stay informed about: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope |
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Since: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 14
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Derek wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:13:46 GMT, Wilson Woods <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote:
>
>
>>Here's the noted "ar" liar "St" Tom's quote:
>>
>> Professor Cohen surely must know that many drugs
>> that have cleared animal tests are later found to be
>> toxic for humans. A 1990 report issued by the
>> General Accounting Office found that approximately
>> 50 percent of the FDA-approved drugs investigated
>> either had to be taken off the market or relabeled
>> because of their toxic effects on the people who
>> were using them.
>
>
> You've omitted a reference he made
I've omitted nothing relevant. Lying "St" Tom is lying
about drugs that are approved by the FDA, meaning drugs
that were NOT "removed" as a result of the three phases
of human clinical trials. Admit you were wrong.
That's all this is about now: your error in claiming
we are talking about drugs that "passed" animal testing
(which isn't intended anyway to establish human safety)
and subsequently were "removed" in one of the three
phases of human testing required for approval.
The drugs were NOT "removed" in human testing, you
moron, they passed the phases and were approved by the
FDA. Admit either that you are in error or are lying. >> Stay informed about: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope |
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Since: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 14
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:24:34 GMT, Wilson Woods <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote:
>
>>Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
>>
>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:13:46 GMT, Wilson Woods <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
>>>>
>>>>Here's the noted "ar" liar "St" Tom's quote:
>>>>
>>>> Professor Cohen surely must know that many drugs
>>>> that have cleared animal tests are later found to be
>>>> toxic for humans. A 1990 report issued by the
>>>> General Accounting Office found that approximately
>>>> 50 percent of the FDA-approved drugs investigated
>>>> either had to be taken off the market or relabeled
>>>> because of their toxic effects on the people who
>>>> were using them.
>>>
>>>You've omitted a reference he made
>>
>>I've omitted nothing relevant.
>
>
> You intentionally omitted
Nothing relevant to showing that you are in error
and/or lying: we are talking about drugs that WERE NOT
"removed" by the human testing. Admit you lied or
committed a gross error.
>
>
>>That is the great, vile "ar" lie of omission: they omit to
>>acknowledge that three phases of human testing also
>>were required for approval
>
>
> He didn't omit these phases
He omits them in placing the "blame" for a supposedly
"failed" drug entirely on the animal testing, without
noting that three phases of human testing *also* were
required to obtain FDA approval, and that these three
phases are much more connected to establishing human
safety than is the animal testing. He is lying by
omission; so are you.
The "106,000" number is bullshit: it includes deaths
from perfectly safe drugs that were misadministered in
some way. >> Stay informed about: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope |
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Since: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 14
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you prancing dope [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:58:21 GMT, Wilson Woods <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote:
>
>
>>Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
>>
>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:24:34 GMT, Wilson Woods <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:13:46 GMT, Wilson Woods <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Right on cue, Dreck pranced in and fabricated:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here's the noted "ar" liar "St" Tom's quote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Professor Cohen surely must know that many drugs
>>>>>> that have cleared animal tests are later found to be
>>>>>> toxic for humans. A 1990 report issued by the
>>>>>> General Accounting Office found that approximately
>>>>>> 50 percent of the FDA-approved drugs investigated
>>>>>> either had to be taken off the market or relabeled
>>>>>> because of their toxic effects on the people who
>>>>>> were using them.
>>>>>
>>>>>You've omitted a reference he made
>>>>
>>>>I've omitted nothing relevant.
>>>
>>>You intentionally omitted
>>
>>Nothing relevant to showing that you are in error and/or lying:
>>we are talking about drugs that WERE NOT "removed" by the human
>>testing. Admit you lied or committed a gross error.
Stop snipping my material in order to pretend you're
addressing something else. We are addressing your
lie/error.
>
>
> It was hugely relevant
It is irrelevant to establishing that you either are
lying or committing a gross blunder in saying the drugs
were "removed" by the human clinical trials. They were
not "removed", you idiot; they passed the human trials
and received approval from the FDA. >> Stay informed about: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope |
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Since: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Wilson Woods" <vârmïnt@frèêdom.úsâ.çøm> wrote...
> Here's the noted "ar" liar "St" Tom's quote:
>
> Professor Cohen surely must know that many drugs
> that have cleared animal tests are later found to be
> toxic for humans.
This is true, and one of the reasons current drug research is so expensive.
> A 1990 report issued by the
> General Accounting Office found that approximately
> 50 percent of the FDA-approved drugs investigated
> either had to be taken off the market or relabeled
> because of their toxic effects on the people who
> were using them.
>
> The liar "St" Tom is talking about FDA-approved drugs.
> If they're FDA-approved, that means *necessarily*
> they were not "removed" from the approval process short
> of approval by any of the three phases of human
> clinical trials that occur prior to approval.
There are varying levels of FDA-approval. For instance there is a difference
between FDA-approval to test on human following testing on animals, and
FDA-approval to sell products that have passed human trials. It is possible
St Tom is refering to the former type and not the latter. Your quote does
not contain sufficient text to determine if this is the case or not; though
it is clear you are assuming it is not.
Do you perhaps have a link to the full and complete text? Or knowledge of
which 1990 GAO report he is refering to?
> The quote should read:
>
> Professor Regan surely must know that all drugs that
> receive FDA approval and subsequently cause human
> injury or death passed three phases of human
> clinical trials in addition to the one animal
> testing phase that wasn't even intended to establish
> general human safety. So why does he lie by
> omission and ridiculously try to make the animal
> testing carry all the moral weight of the failure?
Because human testing is used to confirm a sample of animal testing; but it
can't test the entirety of the result for ethical reasons. You can't for
instance test pregnant women in the same way you can test pregnant animals.
That segment of the data relies purely on animal tests. Hence failure of
that or a similar segment of the data leading to subsequent harm in the
drug's general usage cannot reasonably be blamed on the human trials. Your
suggestion also misses out the truth first sentence about the accuracy of
animal testing.
I wonder Mr Woods, would you care to comment on the theory that poor results
in animal testing can lead to potentially useful drugs (which do not have
similarly poor effects on humans) being thrown away?
John >> Stay informed about: Just admit you're wrong, Dreck, you dope |
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