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Next: The pro wildlife killing CONservation hooligans &..
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Since: Sep 26, 2003 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:14 pm
Post subject: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)
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Zakhar has been posting here for some years now
under the guise of an animal rights advocate, but
he's now been outed as yet another lying anti who
favours vivisection. For years, he's been feigning
an abhorrence to it and took on a false stance
to fool the genuine opponents of it into believing
he was part of their movement against it. Unlike
the known pro-vivisection lobby on these animal
related groups, Zakhar saw fit to keep his real
stance on this vile practice a secret. Not only is
he a liar, he is also an intellectual coward who
daren't even try making a coherent defence for
his pro-vivisection stance and tries to fend of
any enquiry by stating he takes each case on its
own merit, whatever that's supposed to mean,
and relies on using "highly contrived hypothetical
scenarios" instead of answering the basic questions
put to him.
He states, "I believe in animal rights as much as
human rights.", but when asked why he allows
one set of rights holders to be spared from the
vivisectionists lab he then goes on to claim he's
answered the question, hoping he'll never have
to do so.
Zakhar is the anti within and has lied to us all. >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:10Bdb.67$kA.20452@wards.force9.net...
>
> "Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
[..]
> > Get together and resolve this issue.
> >
> > You are the cornerstone of 'the side', and the last thing we want.
to see
> is
> > a major rift in the ranks.
> >
> > Easy food for the vultures! (Def: Vulture - a bald headed bird.).
> Come-on,
> > sort it.
>
> Thanks Ray. Even though I've been called 'CNUT' on more than one
occasion
> and an inaccurate new post has been sent, I am prepared to "build
bridges".
> Even one of 'pretend it never happened', I hope Derek can do the same.
Pretending things never happened should be a snap for members of "the
side'. >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Zakhar" <nospam.TakeThisOut@donotuse123.com> wrote
> "Dutch" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote
> > The only question remains, does Zakhar value solidarity of this
"side"
> > above his own intellectual and moral integrity?
>
> My integrity is and will remain firm.
As long as you say so?
> Much more than I can say of you.
What do you mean by that? >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 131
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:12 am
Post subject: Re: ~~jonnie~~ the twister. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jonathan Ball" <jonball RemoveThis @whitehouse.not> wrote in message
news:QdJdb.7056$RW4.5058@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Zakhar wrote:
>
> > "Jonathan Ball" <jonball RemoveThis @whitehouse.not> wrote in message
> > news:laIdb.6941$RW4.5600@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>Zakhar wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Jonathan Ball" <jonball RemoveThis @whitehouse.not> wrote in message
> >>>news:axHdb.6856$RW4.441@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Cannon Ball Wrote:-
> Boom boom boom boom boom!
>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>You claim you do not
> >>>>>>"support" vivisection of humans, then two sentences
> >>>>>>later you say it was the right thing to do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You are hopelessly confused.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>No, you can't read.
> >>>>
> >>>>I can read. I can read you trying, and failing, to
> >>>>create some room for yourself.
> >>>>
> >>>>You are morally incoherent.
> >>
> >>In fact, your silence is thunderous.
>
> Boom boom boom boom boom!
More like bum bum bum bum ~~you little nymshifting shirtlifter.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill ~~jonnie~~, you know that.
You take and analyse each and every word, once you have found something that
'may' be considered duplistic you're on to it like a swarm of bees on a jar
of non existent 'Vegan' honey.
Let's get back to basics. (something you don't like) Experiments on humans
known to be terminally ill can do nothing but good. If I were in such a
position I sincerely hope I would agree to such treatment. It can do no
harm.
The feedback from such trials can provide medics with far more information
the killing thousands of animals because you are dealing with 'real' people.
You like playing 'Questions and Answers ~~jonnie~~, answer me this:-
What is the difference between conducting experiments on a terminally ill
person as opposed to ripping the organs from one that is dead?
Don't you dare question *my* stance on 'Vivisection'
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray" <camcompany.TakeThisOut@ntlworld.com> wrote...
>
> "Dutch" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote
[..]
> > Take all
> > > interests into account and then make a decision.
> >
> > You're retreating into vague generalities. What do you think we're doing
> > when we exterminate pests in lodging houses?
> Why talk of 'Lodging houses' ~~ jonnies~~ house is so filthy - even the
rats
> wear boiler suites.
Because we kill mice and rats among other critters by the gazillion in
lodging houses every year in defense of human health. In light of this it
makes no logical sense that ARAs say nothing of this fact, yet make such an
uproar, to the point of threatening researchers' lives, over the generally
humane use of rodents in the name of human health.
Please explain the logic, in your own words, if you can. >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Sep 19, 2003 Posts: 19
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:NfZdb.2709$QH3.471@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> "Derek" <f.RemoveThis@chance.com> wrote in message news:bl9ih4$8ss5q$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > "Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message news:h5Adb.42$kA.11427@wards.force9.net...
> > > "the liar finder general" <nope.RemoveThis@nope.com> wrote in message news:bl4k1b$2qi$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > >
> >
> Derek,
>
> Is this the 'only' case that leads you to make these accusations against
> 'Zakhar'?
>
Do I need any more? He claims to be an active
animal rights advocate;
"Be careful. I consider myself as an active advocate
of animal rights."
Zakhar Date: 2002-07-19
yet he also favours vivisection on these animals. If
Liehar favours vivisection and believes it's the proper
way to find medical cures, why aren't his principles
as strong as John Mercer's who studied to do the job
properly and as painlessly as possible? >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 131
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Derek" <f RemoveThis @chance.com> wrote in message
news:bl9r6t$9n2as$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ray" <camcompany RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NfZdb.2709$QH3.471@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> > "Derek" <f RemoveThis @chance.com> wrote in message
news:bl9ih4$8ss5q$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > "Zakhar" <nospam RemoveThis @donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:h5Adb.42$kA.11427@wards.force9.net...
> > > > "the liar finder general" <nope RemoveThis @nope.com> wrote in message
news:bl4k1b$2qi$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > > >
> > >
> > Derek,
> >
> > Is this the 'only' case that leads you to make these accusations against
> > 'Zakhar'?
> >
> Do I need any more? He claims to be an active
> animal rights advocate;
>
> "Be careful. I consider myself as an active advocate
> of animal rights."
> Zakhar Date: 2002-07-19
>
> yet he also favours vivisection on these animals. If
> Liehar favours vivisection and believes it's the proper
> way to find medical cures, why aren't his principles
> as strong as John Mercer's who studied to do the job
> properly and as painlessly as possible?
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
I refer to the guy terminally ill, who has already had his life extended by
experimental medication, not that it will do him any good. But my point is
*No life has been taken*. That is miles away from butcher mercer and
'vivisection'.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 30, 2003 Posts: 148
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:EC_db.2807$QH3.1982@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Derek" <f.RemoveThis@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:bl9r6t$9n2as$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:NfZdb.2709$QH3.471@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> > > "Derek" <f.RemoveThis@chance.com> wrote in message
> news:bl9ih4$8ss5q$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > "Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
> news:h5Adb.42$kA.11427@wards.force9.net...
> > > > > "the liar finder general" <nope.RemoveThis@nope.com> wrote in message
> news:bl4k1b$2qi$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > Derek,
> > >
> > > Is this the 'only' case that leads you to make these accusations
against
> > > 'Zakhar'?
> > >
> > Do I need any more? He claims to be an active
> > animal rights advocate;
> >
> > "Be careful. I consider myself as an active advocate
> > of animal rights."
> > Zakhar Date: 2002-07-19
> >
> > yet he also favours vivisection on these animals. If
> > Liehar favours vivisection and believes it's the proper
> > way to find medical cures, why aren't his principles
> > as strong as John Mercer's who studied to do the job
> > properly and as painlessly as possible?
>
> Are we talking at cross purposes here?
>
> I refer to the guy terminally ill, who has already had his life extended
by
> experimental medication, not that it will do him any good. But my point is
> *No life has been taken*. That is miles away from butcher mercer and
> 'vivisection'.
The guy with vCJD has not consented to these experiments, he is incapable,
as an animal is. If it is acceptable to experimenting on him, surely if an
animal is in the *same* circumstance, then one could conduct the *same*
experiment. All I've done is changed the species.
I do not favour "vivisection" as it is being defined here.
>
> >
> >
>
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 131
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Zakhar" <nospam.DeleteThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:00%db.683$kA.199176@wards.force9.net...
>
> "Ray" <camcompany.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:EC_db.2807$QH3.1982@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Derek" <f.DeleteThis@chance.com> wrote in message
> > news:bl9r6t$9n2as$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Ray" <camcompany.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:NfZdb.2709$QH3.471@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> > > > "Derek" <f.DeleteThis@chance.com> wrote in message
> > news:bl9ih4$8ss5q$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > "Zakhar" <nospam.DeleteThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
> > news:h5Adb.42$kA.11427@wards.force9.net...
> > > > > > "the liar finder general" <nope.DeleteThis@nope.com> wrote in message
> > news:bl4k1b$2qi$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Derek,
> > > >
> > > > Is this the 'only' case that leads you to make these accusations
> against
> > > > 'Zakhar'?
> > > >
> > > Do I need any more? He claims to be an active
> > > animal rights advocate;
> > >
> > > "Be careful. I consider myself as an active advocate
> > > of animal rights."
> > > Zakhar Date: 2002-07-19
> > >
> > > yet he also favours vivisection on these animals. If
> > > Liehar favours vivisection and believes it's the proper
> > > way to find medical cures, why aren't his principles
> > > as strong as John Mercer's who studied to do the job
> > > properly and as painlessly as possible?
> >
> > Are we talking at cross purposes here?
> >
> > I refer to the guy terminally ill, who has already had his life extended
> by
> > experimental medication, not that it will do him any good. But my point
is
> > *No life has been taken*. That is miles away from butcher mercer and
> > 'vivisection'.
>
> The guy with vCJD has not consented to these experiments, he is incapable,
> as an animal is. If it is acceptable to experimenting on him, surely if an
> animal is in the *same* circumstance, then one could conduct the *same*
> experiment. All I've done is changed the species.
>
> I do not favour "vivisection" as it is being defined here.
>
I see the point and I agree with you.
Does that also make me a vivisectionist?
See you at HLS. >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray" <camcompany RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote
[..]
> > The guy with vCJD has not consented to these experiments, he is
incapable,
> > as an animal is. If it is acceptable to experimenting on him, surely
if an
> > animal is in the *same* circumstance, then one could conduct the
*same*
> > experiment. All I've done is changed the species.
> >
> > I do not favour "vivisection" as it is being defined here.
> >
> I see the point and I agree with you.
Explain.
Zakhar is also ambivalent about the use of pound dogs in the perfection
of the open-heart surgical technique. How do YOU judge that? Would it
make more sense to just kill the unwanted dogs and have their lives end
pointlessly?
> Does that also make me a vivisectionist?
Of course. >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 30, 2003 Posts: 148
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Dutch the Deceitful bastard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dutch" <no RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:ky0eb.46282$TM4.37943@pd7tw2no...
> "Ray" <camcompany RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote
>
> [..]
> > > The guy with vCJD has not consented to these experiments, he is
> incapable,
> > > as an animal is. If it is acceptable to experimenting on him, surely
> if an
> > > animal is in the *same* circumstance, then one could conduct the
> *same*
> > > experiment. All I've done is changed the species.
> > >
> > > I do not favour "vivisection" as it is being defined here.
> > >
> > I see the point and I agree with you.
>
> Explain.
>
> Zakhar is also ambivalent about the use of pound dogs in the perfection
> of the open-heart surgical technique. How do YOU judge that? Would it
> make more sense to just kill the unwanted dogs and have their lives end
> pointlessly?
I'm am not ambivalent about the use of pound dogs in the perfection of the
open-heart surgical technique.
In the case you ++ORIGINALLY++ cited (not the description you give above,
you deceitful bastard), I said I would be prepared to be experimented on, as
well as the dog or other human.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What if the pain-free use of 600 pound dogs in research (dogs that would
> have been killed anyway and served no purpose) meant that many thousands
> of people *and* animals' lives could be extended and much awful pain and
> suffering alleviated? Would you support that?
Each case is different, and saying one hypothetical case is OK and another
not serves very little purpose, except to demonstrate that there isn't a
fixed line. From what you have written I would not rule it out. I would not
rule it out even if the word dog was changed to man, or even Zakhar.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > Does that also make me a vivisectionist?
>
> Of course.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 30, 2003 Posts: 148
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bW%db.2880$QH3.89@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
> news:00%db.683$kA.199176@wards.force9.net...
> >
> > "Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:EC_db.2807$QH3.1982@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> > >
> > > "Derek" <f.RemoveThis@chance.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bl9r6t$9n2as$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "Ray" <camcompany.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:NfZdb.2709$QH3.471@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> > > > > "Derek" <f.RemoveThis@chance.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bl9ih4$8ss5q$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > "Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
> > > news:h5Adb.42$kA.11427@wards.force9.net...
> > > > > > > "the liar finder general" <nope.RemoveThis@nope.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bl4k1b$2qi$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Derek,
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this the 'only' case that leads you to make these accusations
> > against
> > > > > 'Zakhar'?
> > > > >
> > > > Do I need any more? He claims to be an active
> > > > animal rights advocate;
> > > >
> > > > "Be careful. I consider myself as an active advocate
> > > > of animal rights."
> > > > Zakhar Date: 2002-07-19
> > > >
> > > > yet he also favours vivisection on these animals. If
> > > > Liehar favours vivisection and believes it's the proper
> > > > way to find medical cures, why aren't his principles
> > > > as strong as John Mercer's who studied to do the job
> > > > properly and as painlessly as possible?
> > >
> > > Are we talking at cross purposes here?
> > >
> > > I refer to the guy terminally ill, who has already had his life
extended
> > by
> > > experimental medication, not that it will do him any good. But my
point
> is
> > > *No life has been taken*. That is miles away from butcher mercer and
> > > 'vivisection'.
> >
> > The guy with vCJD has not consented to these experiments, he is
incapable,
> > as an animal is. If it is acceptable to experimenting on him, surely if
an
> > animal is in the *same* circumstance, then one could conduct the *same*
> > experiment. All I've done is changed the species.
> >
> > I do not favour "vivisection" as it is being defined here.
> >
> I see the point and I agree with you.
Thanks.
>
> Does that also make me a vivisectionist?
I know how anti-vivisectionist you are, so you have understood my point. I'm
glad, as I respect your view.
>
> See you at HLS.
I support the closure of HLS. I have an additional concern that closing HLS
will push their work to other countries where the work is less controlled,
so the effort must also be in changing legislation that cause these
experiments in the first place.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jul 10, 2003 Posts: 869
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dump Slater wrote:
>>>See you at HLS.
>>
>>I support the closure of HLS. I have an additional concern that closing HLS
>>will push their work to other countries where the work is less controlled,
>>so the effort must also be in changing legislation that cause these
>>experiments in the first place.
>>
>>
>>>
>>
> We who care about animals
That lets you out, loser. You do not care about
animals. All you care about is a cheap trick for
trying to pat yourself on the back. >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 131
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Zakhar [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dutch" <no DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:vngvj9albhl130@news.supernews.com...
> "Ray" <camcompany DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote...
> >
> > "Dutch" <no DeleteThis @email.com> wrote
> [..]
> > > Take all
> > > > interests into account and then make a decision.
> > >
> > > You're retreating into vague generalities. What do you think we're
doing
> > > when we exterminate pests in lodging houses?
>
> > Why talk of 'Lodging houses' ~~ jonnies~~ house is so filthy - even the
> rats
> > wear boiler suites.
>
> Because we kill mice and rats among other critters by the gazillion in
> lodging houses every year in defense of human health. In light of this it
> makes no logical sense that ARAs say nothing of this fact, yet make such
an
> uproar, to the point of threatening researchers' lives, over the generally
> humane use of rodents in the name of human health.
>
> Please explain the logic, in your own words, if you can.
You ask me to explain 'Your Logic', I can't.
You start with the premise that I kill mice and rats, that is a lie - I
don't, so I have nothing to explain. Shove that up your pseudo academic blow
hole.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Dutch the Honest Person [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Zakhar" <nospam DeleteThis @donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:23e05c1051f65507569b23dffa59cb5a@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Dutch" <no DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
> news:ky0eb.46282$TM4.37943@pd7tw2no...
> > "Ray" <camcompany DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote
> >
> > [..]
> > > > The guy with vCJD has not consented to these experiments, he is
> > incapable,
> > > > as an animal is. If it is acceptable to experimenting on him,
surely
> > if an
> > > > animal is in the *same* circumstance, then one could conduct the
> > *same*
> > > > experiment. All I've done is changed the species.
> > > >
> > > > I do not favour "vivisection" as it is being defined here.
> > > >
> > > I see the point and I agree with you.
> >
> > Explain.
> >
> > Zakhar is also ambivalent about the use of pound dogs in the
perfection
> > of the open-heart surgical technique. How do YOU judge that? Would
it
> > make more sense to just kill the unwanted dogs and have their lives
end
> > pointlessly?
>
> I'm am not ambivalent about the use of pound dogs in the perfection of
the
> open-heart surgical technique.
I was being generous, if anything, you supported it wholeheartedly.
>
> In the case you ++ORIGINALLY++ cited (not the description you give
above,
> you deceitful bastard), I said I would be prepared to be experimented
on, as
> well as the dog or other human.
That means you are prepared to agree with the use of dogs.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > What if the pain-free use of 600 pound dogs in research (dogs that
would
> > have been killed anyway and served no purpose) meant that many
thousands
> > of people *and* animals' lives could be extended and much awful pain
and
> > suffering alleviated? Would you support that?
>
> Each case is different, and saying one hypothetical case is OK and
another
> not serves very little purpose, except to demonstrate that there isn't
a
> fixed line. From what you have written I would not rule it out. I
would not
> rule it out even if the word dog was changed to man, or even Zakhar.
You didn't oppose the use of dogs in the situation I cited, therefore
you agree with vivisection. Saying you would volunteer yourself is
meaningless posturing, you wouldn't volunteer and you know you would not
be accepted anyway.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> >
> > > Does that also make me a vivisectionist?
> >
> > Of course.
> >
> >
>
> >> Stay informed about: Zakhar; the liar who fooled us all |
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