Underground filters

On Sep 20, 11:34 pm, Tynk <TY....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 20, 11:25?pm, John DeBoo <jsde....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Years ago I had two of these and they worked well. What books I've read
> > (published 1995 to date) seem to say they are good inexpensive filters
> > to use. However, in my trips to WalMart, a local fish store, Petco &
> > PetsMart, they seem to have all disappeared - else I'm blind.
>
> > Are these little hummers still available? Thoughts & comments on them
> > welcome.
>
> > Grandpa John
>
> Hello there Grandpa John.
> Under gravel filters are still around, however filtration has come
> along way.
> If they are not used properly and taken proper care of, they end up
> being cess pools just waiting to set free a toxic gas bubble.
> Sounds pretty wild, I know. But that's the extreme worst thing that
> can happen with them.
> Mainly, they're a pain the butt and outdated.
> Depending on the size of the tank, better options would be:
> Sponge filters run by an air pump.
> Power filters. These hang on the tank and make a lot less noise than
> anything making bubbles.
> Canister filters for large tanks.
> Do you have tanks running now or are you getting back into the hobby?

Undergravel filters are rarely used anymore.
In a lot of stores they are hard to even find.....If properly
maintained and installed they work great. YOu would be have much
better luck with a hob (hang on back) type filter such as the work
horse Aqua Clear filters. They work for ever and do the job, and are
extremely easy to maintain. ||Even on a 29 gal tank I would go with
the largest model offered, which is the AC110 (old model 500) They
are fully adjustable and can be found online for $35 or less or if
there is a Petsmart store near you just print out the webpage on them
with the price and Petsmart will price match prices (you'll save
approx 50-60%| that way) as they sell it for close to $80 in the
stores. Canister filters are mnore excpensive and can form a bnitrate
factory very quickly. Media replacement is more costly too in a lot of
the canister types. The hang on the bac (|hob) such as the Aqua Clears
are extremely quiet and you will not hear any noise, unless you have
air trapped in the system. They just do not make noise and they last
forever. Media replacement is quick and easy and cheap and a lot of
varioius other media can be used in these hob filters than just the
stuff Aqua Clear sells for it. Trust me, your fish and you will
appreciate a good AC110 on a 29 gal tank.

Air powered filters are for the most part no where near as
effectiveas they lack any real circulation or filtration and yes
eventhough they do filter water, they certainly are not quick about it
or provide much current, which also helps in any tank. Air powered
filters anymore are usually used in breeder tanks and such.rarely in a
larger display tank. Who wants top hasbve top be putting their hands
and arms ina tank to clean filters etc. ||The hob Aqua |Clear is lift
lid, pull basket out, clean and reverse removal process and go!
Eviderntly Aqua Cl;ears are too "complicated " for some fokos so they
go the old air powered way.


And as much as I hate to do it, TYNK seen perfectly fit to trash RMs
other post as well as some I made. See what| I mean about TYNK needing
to be in charge and receive 110% of the attention . I could easily
trash this post, but I fortunately do not have the resident trolls
nasty habit of of being a hipocrite
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

"John DeBoo" <jsdeboo DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:GvWdnY6o4OMi2m7bnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Years ago I had two of these and they worked well. What books I've read
> (published 1995 to date) seem to say they are good inexpensive filters to
> use. However, in my trips to WalMart, a local fish store, Petco &
> PetsMart, they seem to have all disappeared - else I'm blind.
>
> Are these little hummers still available? Thoughts & comments on them
> welcome.
>
> Grandpa John
=========================
Good morning John. I stopped using UGFs years ago. It was almost
impossible to get the crud out from under them and who knew what deadly
gasses were developing in the decomposing mulm (bits of food, plant matter
and feces) caught there. Trying to clean them was the pits. I finally
broke down every tank at the time and one by one removed them. I just use
gravel and a gravel vac now. I use HOB Aquaclears and have been very
satisfied with them.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

Reel McKoi wrote:
>
> "John DeBoo" <jsdeboo DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:GvWdnY6o4OMi2m7bnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Years ago I had two of these and they worked well. What books I've
>> read (published 1995 to date) seem to say they are good inexpensive
>> filters to use. However, in my trips to WalMart, a local fish store,
>> Petco & PetsMart, they seem to have all disappeared - else I'm blind.
>>
>> Are these little hummers still available? Thoughts & comments on them
>> welcome.
>>
>> Grandpa John
> =========================
> Good morning John. I stopped using UGFs years ago. It was almost
> impossible to get the crud out from under them and who knew what deadly
> gasses were developing in the decomposing mulm (bits of food, plant
> matter and feces) caught there. Trying to clean them was the pits. I
> finally broke down every tank at the time and one by one removed them. I
> just use gravel and a gravel vac now. I use HOB Aquaclears and have
> been very satisfied with them.


Good advice, maybe I'll use whatever filter comes with the set up and a
gravel vac. I used one of them years ago with good success with the UGF
system I had then.

Grandpa John
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:25:35 -0600, John DeBoo wrote:

> Years ago I had two of these and they worked well. What books I've read
> (published 1995 to date) seem to say they are good inexpensive filters
> to use. However, in my trips to WalMart, a local fish store, Petco &
> PetsMart, they seem to have all disappeared - else I'm blind.
>
> Are these little hummers still available? Thoughts & comments on them
> welcome.
>
I don't like them, but if you insist get the reverse UGF. You're much
better off with an Aquaclear.
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Sep 21, 3:25 pm, Larry Blanchard <lbla... RemoveThis @fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:25:35 -0600, John DeBoo wrote:
> > Years ago I had two of these and they worked well. What books I've read
> > (published 1995 to date) seem to say they are good inexpensive filters
> > to use. However, in my trips to WalMart, a local fish store, Petco &
> > PetsMart, they seem to have all disappeared - else I'm blind.
>
> > Are these little hummers still available? Thoughts & comments on them
> > welcome.
>
> I don't like them, but if you insist get the reverse UGF. You're much
> better off with an Aquaclear.

Undergravel filters can and do work well if they have sufficient flow
through them and to be honest the air line bubble type of flow is far
from being adequate. Stick an good Maxi jet or Mini Jet power head on
one and its good to go. IN saltweater setups they used to use a plenum
type affair which is similar to what a FW undergravel filter is, and
if it was provided with sufficient flow etc it too worked just fine.
However if it was not you had problems just oiek a FW under gravel
filter


The white bagged play sand sold ata home depot and that is typically
seen in cigarette ash trays outside commercial establishments works
great to mix in with and under fine gravel. Bout $3.50 a 50# bag.Its a
silica or actually a quartz based sand... I use a limestone sand sold
by Homedepot called Old Castle or southdown sand. Its the same sand
used by marine fish keeps. Its also about $3.50 a 50# bag, and its
perfect to use with mbunas or any of the malawi or rift lake fish.
This sand is uniform in size to what typical play or masonary sand is,
and is snow white in color but once in use it soon becomes a gran or
tan color. This sand is agreat buffer and it will not affect ph if
your ph is not too far out of wack normally. If its really on the low
or acid side it helps immensly.
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

They are still aound, but not very popular any more. They got a lot of bad
press when fanmcier (and much more expensive) alternates came out.
Undergravel filters are still a great low-cost option for drastically
increasing your biofiltration capacity. In my experience, they excel in
freshwater tanks, but are mediocre in saltwater.

However, you need sufficient water flow through the gravel. A decent
air-lift will do great if you regularly vacuum or stir up the gravel to
prevent "mats" forming and binding the gravel together. The gravel should be
stirred or vacuumed every week or two to ensure that it hasn't matted. Some
people have reported problems using undergravel filters when they have live
plants - they either can't keep the plants alive or clog the UG filter. I
simply put my plants in
shallow pots - this gives the plants a place to anchor, and provides
boundaries for the vacuum (I don't vacuum the pots so I don't disturb the
plants roots). It also makes it a lot easier to apply fertilizer (if you
want to).

I always use UG filters in all of my freshwater tanks. My filtration typical
setup is an UG filter and a canister (for particulates not biofiltration). I
have tanks from 5 gal through 125, and haven't had any water quality
problems. I use two lift tubes per UG filter, and make sure that there is
good airflow (small bubbles provide more lift per volume of air - as the
stones clog, you need to clean/replace them).

My personal opinion regtarding the decrease in popularity of UG filters is
because the sellers simply don't make as much money on them, and many of the
aquariasts today want things with a high "gizmocity factor". A UG filter is
simple, doesn't require much maintenance, and does what is supposed tp. But
it doesn't look impressive or give bragging rights about the $X,000
filtration system.....

-JD


"John DeBoo" <jsdeboo.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:GvWdnY6o4OMi2m7bnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Years ago I had two of these and they worked well. What books I've read
> (published 1995 to date) seem to say they are good inexpensive filters to
> use. However, in my trips to WalMart, a local fish store, Petco &
> PetsMart, they seem to have all disappeared - else I'm blind.
>
> Are these little hummers still available? Thoughts & comments on them
> welcome.
>
> Grandpa John
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Sep 28, 7:04?am, "jd" <ho....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> They are still aound, but not very popular any more. They got a lot of bad
> press when fanmcier (and much more expensive) alternates came out.
> Undergravel filters are still a great low-cost option for drastically
> increasing your biofiltration capacity. In my experience, they excel in
> freshwater tanks, but are mediocre in saltwater.
>
> However, you need sufficient water flow through the gravel. A decent
> air-lift will do great if you regularly vacuum or stir up the gravel to
> prevent "mats" forming and binding the gravel together. The gravel should be
> stirred or vacuumed every week or two to ensure that it hasn't matted. Some
> people have reported problems using undergravel filters when they have live
> plants - they either can't keep the plants alive or clog the UG filter. I
> simply put my plants in
> shallow pots - this gives the plants a place to anchor, and provides
> boundaries for the vacuum (I don't vacuum the pots so I don't disturb the
> plants roots). It also makes it a lot easier to apply fertilizer (if you
> want to).
>
> I always use UG filters in all of my freshwater tanks. My filtration typical
> setup is an UG filter and a canister (for particulates not biofiltration). I
> have tanks from 5 gal through 125, and haven't had any water quality
> problems. I use two lift tubes per UG filter, and make sure that there is
> good airflow (small bubbles provide more lift per volume of air - as the
> stones clog, you need to clean/replace them).
>
> My personal opinion regtarding the decrease in popularity of UG filters is
> because the sellers simply don't make as much money on them, and many of the
> aquariasts today want things with a high "gizmocity factor". A UG filter is
> simple, doesn't require much maintenance, and does what is supposed tp. But
> it doesn't look impressive or give bragging rights about the $X,000
> filtration system.....
>
> -JD

>
> - Show quoted text -

Jd,...

IMO, you're not having any water quality problems because you're using
a cansiter filter.
You're putting a little too much praise on the effectiveness of an
UGF.
It's not about looks or how much something costs, it's about the
filtration system's effectiveness.
When you put a canister up against an UGF....hands down the canister
is a better filtration system.
You get mechanical *and* biological filtration as well. Just like any
other filter medium that isn't worn out, you rinse the canister's
filter pad out in old tank water. Nitrifying bacteria are all over
every surface in the filter too, so rinsing with old tank water is
recommended.
Refill with dechlorinated water.
If you got rid of that UGF, you wouldn't have a dirty tank. You'd have
an almost silent tank.
You'd have no gurgle noises, no ugly tubes, more room for plants and
fish to use, less work, a better looking tank, and best of all...no
more air pumps to deal with!
With your normal water changes and gravel vacuuming there would be no
"cons", just "pros" without it.
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

I guess it depends on how you use your filters. I do have a canister filter,
but it is only part of my filtration system - the UG filter is just as
important. The UG drastically increases the biofiltration capacity of any
tank (if properly maintained).
The idea that the canister filter performs "better" is simply inacurate. the
canister filter is designed to perform a different function. Yes, it does
provide some biofiltrtation, but then almost everything does (including the
walls, decorations, nd pretty much any wet surface in an aquarium).
An example of how important the filters are can be demonostrated by
observing the water quality. When the canister filter slows down, the water
qualioty does not change significantly. As a matter of fact, at one point
the canister filter failed, and I didn't get around to rebuilding it for
about 3 weeks - no change in water quality. However, when I had an airpump
fail, and the UG filters flow was drastically reduced, the water quality
started deteriorating in almost immediately - there were noticable changes
within 2 days.
I am not saying that a UG filter by itself is a good filtration system. I
would not set up a tank with UG alone. I would also not set up a tank
without UG. The extra protection that UG filters provide is a lot more
valuable than the small extra expense needed at setup.
As far as sound - I run some sort of aeration all the time - I wouldn't even
think about setting up a tank without it. The sound of bubbles coming from
the UG tube isn't any worse than the sound of bubbles coming from an air
stone. Of course, I use airstones in my UG tubes - the small bubble size
greatly increases the lift capacity of the air tubes...
The lift tubes are easily hidden by plants, so they don't effect the beuty
of hte tank, and there is no additional maintenance needed - I vacuum on a
regular basis anyway.

UGF may not be something that everyone wants, but they are an option that
have definite advantages. In my opinion, the advantages far exceed the
disadvantages. Of course, in my case, the only disadvantage is spending an
extra $30 or so when I set up a 125 gallon tank - pretty insignificant when
I usually spend about $2,500 - $3,000 setting up a new tank..
-JD


"Tynk" <TYNK7.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1190994355.290038.102590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 28, 7:04?am, "jd" <ho....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>> They are still aound, but not very popular any more. They got a lot of
>> bad
>> press when fanmcier (and much more expensive) alternates came out.
>> Undergravel filters are still a great low-cost option for drastically
>> increasing your biofiltration capacity. In my experience, they excel in
>> freshwater tanks, but are mediocre in saltwater.
>>
>> However, you need sufficient water flow through the gravel. A decent
>> air-lift will do great if you regularly vacuum or stir up the gravel to
>> prevent "mats" forming and binding the gravel together. The gravel should
>> be
>> stirred or vacuumed every week or two to ensure that it hasn't matted.
>> Some
>> people have reported problems using undergravel filters when they have
>> live
>> plants - they either can't keep the plants alive or clog the UG filter. I
>> simply put my plants in
>> shallow pots - this gives the plants a place to anchor, and provides
>> boundaries for the vacuum (I don't vacuum the pots so I don't disturb the
>> plants roots). It also makes it a lot easier to apply fertilizer (if you
>> want to).
>>
>> I always use UG filters in all of my freshwater tanks. My filtration
>> typical
>> setup is an UG filter and a canister (for particulates not
>> biofiltration). I
>> have tanks from 5 gal through 125, and haven't had any water quality
>> problems. I use two lift tubes per UG filter, and make sure that there is
>> good airflow (small bubbles provide more lift per volume of air - as the
>> stones clog, you need to clean/replace them).
>>
>> My personal opinion regtarding the decrease in popularity of UG filters
>> is
>> because the sellers simply don't make as much money on them, and many of
>> the
>> aquariasts today want things with a high "gizmocity factor". A UG filter
>> is
>> simple, doesn't require much maintenance, and does what is supposed tp.
>> But
>> it doesn't look impressive or give bragging rights about the $X,000
>> filtration system.....
>>
>> -JD
>
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Jd,...
>
> IMO, you're not having any water quality problems because you're using
> a cansiter filter.
> You're putting a little too much praise on the effectiveness of an
> UGF.
> It's not about looks or how much something costs, it's about the
> filtration system's effectiveness.
> When you put a canister up against an UGF....hands down the canister
> is a better filtration system.
> You get mechanical *and* biological filtration as well. Just like any
> other filter medium that isn't worn out, you rinse the canister's
> filter pad out in old tank water. Nitrifying bacteria are all over
> every surface in the filter too, so rinsing with old tank water is
> recommended.
> Refill with dechlorinated water.
> If you got rid of that UGF, you wouldn't have a dirty tank. You'd have
> an almost silent tank.
> You'd have no gurgle noises, no ugly tubes, more room for plants and
> fish to use, less work, a better looking tank, and best of all...no
> more air pumps to deal with!
> With your normal water changes and gravel vacuuming there would be no
> "cons", just "pros" without it.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

"jd" <hopoe.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cbidnRLY6oMQrJvanZ2dnUVZ_v2unZ2d@comcast.com...
> UGF may not be something that everyone wants, but they are an option that
> have definite advantages. In my opinion, the advantages far exceed the
> disadvantages. Of course, in my case, the only disadvantage is spending
> an extra $30 or so when I set up a 125 gallon tank - pretty insignificant
> when I usually spend about $2,500 - $3,000 setting up a new tank..
> -JD
====================
Use what works for you. Some people like UGFs and some don't.


--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Oct 5, 7:44?am, "jd" <ho....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
.. As a matter of fact, at one point
> the canister filter failed, and I didn't get around to rebuilding it for
> about 3 weeks - no change in water quality. However, when I had an airpump
> fail, and the UG filters flow was drastically reduced, the water quality
> started deteriorating in almost immediately - there were noticable changes
> within 2 days.

IMO, the water quality deteriorated because your airpump failed, and
bacteria were dying off. A cess pool was starting.
That had nothing to do with the canister no wroking right or good
enough.
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Oct 8, 9:51 am, Tynk <TY....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 7:44?am, "jd" <ho....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> . As a matter of fact, at one point
>
> > the canister filter failed, and I didn't get around to rebuilding it for
> > about 3 weeks - no change in water quality. However, when I had an airpump
> > fail, and the UG filters flow was drastically reduced, the water quality
> > started deteriorating in almost immediately - there were noticable changes
> > within 2 days.
>
> IMO, the water quality deteriorated because your airpump failed, and
> bacteria were dying off. A cess pool was starting.
> That had nothing to do with the canister no wroking right or good
> enough.

And your opinion does not count TYNK. NO one really cares what the
hell you think TYNK,. We all know your a babbling idiot transexual
buffoon...........where ever you go you manage to drag in the trash
and disrupt the groups. Whats wrong, can you not compete with the
moderated TFA group posters....yea, I thought that was the reason, you
do not fit in as you do not have half a clue as to what your spouting
off about 99% of the time.Go get help Tynk, they have meds to help
idiots like you cope with day to daylife..No need to have a meltdown.
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Oct 8, 9:57?am, Natsirt <otoc....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

YAWN...............

Same old typical idiot reply of our local TROLL.
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters 

On Oct 8, 5:17 pm, "jd" <ho....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> I think you misread my post - the water quality stayed the same when the
> canister filter failed. When the airpump failed (another time), the water
> quality crashed. That would indicate that the UG filter was doing a lot more
> of the cleaning (at least bio) than the canister, and would even suggest
> that it is the canister filter that is not needed.
>
> The tank is very heavily planted, so there probably wasn't a huge drop in
> disolved oxygen - the fish certainly didn't seem to mind. I would expect the
> fish to react to lower disolved oxygen way before bacteria populations would
> crash - unless of course, the failure of hte airpump also stopped the flow
> of water through the gravel, which would cause localized lowered disolved
> oxygen in the gravel bed - which is what I think happened. The death of
> bacteria doesn't significantly change the water chemistry - what causes the
> change is the loss of the bacteria's metabolic processing. So this is
> another argument FOR an UG filter (and a spare airpump...).
>
> What is interesting is that the canister was running when the airpump
> failed, and still didn't keep the tank stable. When the canister failed, the
> UG had no problem maintaining water quality. I've never had both fail at the
> same time.....
> -JD
>
> "Tynk" <TY....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1191855083.774564.38280@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 5, 7:44?am, "jd" <ho....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> > . As a matter of fact, at one point
> >> the canister filter failed, and I didn't get around to rebuilding it for
> >> about 3 weeks - no change in water quality. However, when I had an
> >> airpump
> >> fail, and the UG filters flow was drastically reduced, the water quality
> >> started deteriorating in almost immediately - there were noticable
> >> changes
> >> within 2 days.
>
> > IMO, the water quality deteriorated because your airpump failed, and
> > bacteria were dying off. A cess pool was starting.
> > That had nothing to do with the canister no wroking right or good
> > enough.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Listen up old man.........its not nice to argue iwth our miss know it
all TYNK..........you got that? If not perhaps its best for you to
take a hike and decide who yuo really are JD or John Deedumbass or
just a crotchety old fart...I think its time for your fleet enema and
some geritol and maybe someone will make you a cup of warm milk and
tuck your decrepit ass into the bed. Oh yea don;t forget to take your
teeth out since you seem to be into and very knowledgeable about
"hummers" as I would hate to hear that you choked on them.............
 >> Stay informed about: Underground filters