The True Cost Of Meat

"However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta."

If he said it he is wrong, humans evolved to eat a very wide range of food
sources, in actual practice just about anything they can get their hands
on is eaten. It is in general a function of the environment at any given
place which in turn is a general function of the latitude and the forms of
food sources supported.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

markd.RemoveThis@toad-net.com wrote in message news:<411f99ae$0$248$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>...
> "However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta."
>
> If he said it he is wrong, humans evolved to eat a very wide range of food
> sources, in actual practice just about anything they can get their hands
> on is eaten. It is in general a function of the environment at any given
> place which in turn is a general function of the latitude and the forms of
> food sources supported.

What you fail to understand is while it is true humans have evolved to
eat a veriety of foods, there is a big difference between how humans
have evolved the ablility to SURVIVE on certain foods and the foods
humans have evolved to THRIVE on. That is a simple enough concept to
grasp if you try. Dogs and cats and other animals kept as pets by
humans can also SURVIVE on basicly the very same fake processed foods
we ourselves are eating now but they surely do not thrive on them.
They develope in many cases similar diseases and conditions as modern
humans. Dogs and cats thrive off fresh raw animal foods and so do
humans. The amazingly absurd notion that dog food adds are promoting
healthy dog foods with GRAINS and veggies is a perfect example of how
warped the publics(and supposed health authorities) understanding of
nutrition is.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

"George Conklin" <nilknoc.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TyMTc.26047$Jp6.4437@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >
> > I disagree with the author's stance on eating fish and chicken,
> > but otherwise a very interesting and informative article;
> >
> > http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24601
> >
> >
>
> All this is very old, old news.

To you perhaps.

> If you feed an animal grain, you get back
> 9%-15% in food. Chickens are the worst. Pigs are 15%.

For bovines the ratio is typically16lbs grain for 1lb beef gain,
or 6% of input (excluding silage or hay and supplements).

'Typical animal and feeding statistics
Daily water consumption - 5-10 gallons
Daily day matter consumption
15 pounds corn
4 pounds corn silage
1 pound of protein-mineral supplement
Daily gain - 2.7 pounds per day
Feed conversion efficiency - 7.4 pounds of feed per pound of gain
Initial weight - 700 pounds
Market weight - 1175 pounds
Cost of gain - $ 45.00 per 100 pounds
http://beef.ans.msu.edu/Facilities/Beef_Cattle_Research_and_Teach/body...ef_catt

beef gain = 34.44% of liveweight gain in feedlot.
Average 5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 1lb liveweight gain.
5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 0.34lbs beef = just over 16 : 1.

> And then of course is the water, since animals need a lot of it.

Indeed.

> However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta.

Atkins was wrong.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:21:21 +0100, "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote:

>"George Conklin" <nilknoc.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:TyMTc.26047$Jp6.4437@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>> news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> >
>> > I disagree with the author's stance on eating fish and chicken,
>> > but otherwise a very interesting and informative article;
>> >
>> > http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24601
>> >
>> >
>>
>> All this is very old, old news.
>
>To you perhaps.
>
>> If you feed an animal grain, you get back
>> 9%-15% in food. Chickens are the worst. Pigs are 15%.
>
>For bovines the ratio is typically16lbs grain for 1lb beef gain,
>or 6% of input (excluding silage or hay and supplements).
>
>'Typical animal and feeding statistics
> Daily water consumption - 5-10 gallons
> Daily day matter consumption
> 15 pounds corn
> 4 pounds corn silage
> 1 pound of protein-mineral supplement
> Daily gain - 2.7 pounds per day
> Feed conversion efficiency - 7.4 pounds of feed per pound of gain
> Initial weight - 700 pounds
> Market weight - 1175 pounds
> Cost of gain - $ 45.00 per 100 pounds
>http://beef.ans.msu.edu/Facilities/Beef_Cattle_Research_and_Teach/body_beef_cattle_research_and_teach.html.
>
>beef gain = 34.44% of liveweight gain in feedlot.
>Average 5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 1lb liveweight gain.
>5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 0.34lbs beef = just over 16 : 1.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals
derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products
contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for cattle than soy or rice products. ·

>> And then of course is the water, since animals need a lot of it.
>
>Indeed.
>
>> However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta.
>
>Atkins was wrong.
_________________________________________________________
[...]
In the American Scientist article, Stanford describes witnessing the largest massacre
ever documented at Gombe. Two hunting parties with a total of 33 chimps - two of
them swollen females - converged on a group of 25 colobus monkeys. The male chimps
chased and shook the monkeys from trees, eventually killing seven. Before Stanford's
eyes, a large male chimp plucked a baby monkey from a branch and "dispatched it with
a bite to the skull." The chimp then approached a swollen female with the carcass,
dangling it just out of her reach until she presented her swelling. Only after copulation
did the male share his food.

"An important issue today in human male-female relationships is control," Stanford said.
"What we're seeing is the evolutionary roots of this kind of mutual attempt to manipulate
and control. Male chimps are using meat to control female behavior and female chimps
are making use of their reproductive system to get meat."
[...]
http://www.usc.edu/ext-relations/news_service/chronicle_html/1995.02.0...tml/chi
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

"pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message news:<cfo6lb$9io$1@kermit.esat.net>...
> "George Conklin" <nilknoc.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:TyMTc.26047$Jp6.4437@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> > news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > >
> > > I disagree with the author's stance on eating fish and chicken,
> > > but otherwise a very interesting and informative article;
> > >
> > > http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24601
> > >
> > >
> >
> > All this is very old, old news.
>
> To you perhaps.
>
> > If you feed an animal grain, you get back
> > 9%-15% in food. Chickens are the worst. Pigs are 15%.
>
> For bovines the ratio is typically16lbs grain for 1lb beef gain,
> or 6% of input (excluding silage or hay and supplements).
>
> 'Typical animal and feeding statistics
> Daily water consumption - 5-10 gallons
> Daily day matter consumption
> 15 pounds corn
> 4 pounds corn silage
> 1 pound of protein-mineral supplement
> Daily gain - 2.7 pounds per day
> Feed conversion efficiency - 7.4 pounds of feed per pound of gain
> Initial weight - 700 pounds
> Market weight - 1175 pounds
> Cost of gain - $ 45.00 per 100 pounds
> http://beef.ans.msu.edu/Facilities/Beef_Cattle_Research_and_Teach/body...ef_catt
>
> beef gain = 34.44% of liveweight gain in feedlot.
> Average 5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 1lb liveweight gain.
> 5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 0.34lbs beef = just over 16 : 1.
>
> > And then of course is the water, since animals need a lot of it.
>
> Indeed.
>
> > However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta.
>
> Atkins was wrong.

People are not going to stop eating healthy animal foods. You will
have an easyer time getting a Lion to eat tofu.(like the hippy/animal
rights fanatic from Futurama heh). Get that through your skull. And
yes humans evolved to thrive off animal source foods. To claim
otherwise is just animal rights extremist propaganada. In fact since
us foolish meat eating humans do not want to listen to your wisdom why
dont you just go save all the other carnivorous animals that you love
so much from their folly of eating meat and convert them all into
vegans.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:54:11 GMT, "George Conklin"
<nilknoc.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>"pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
>>
>> I disagree with the author's stance on eating fish and chicken,
>> but otherwise a very interesting and informative article;
>>
>> http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24601
>>
>>
>
> All this is very old, old news. If you feed an animal grain, you get back
>9%-15% in food. Chickens are the worst. Pigs are 15%.
>
> And then of course is the water, since animals need a lot of it.
>However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta.
>
Conversion ratio of feed to live animal weight is about 2:1 for fish,
3.7:1 for chickens/rabbits small animals, 4:1 for pigs, up to 10:1 for
cattle.

Cattle however eat a large portion of their food as (indigestible to
humans) range and pasteur grasses, hay and silage. They are loaded up
in the last few months with grains.

Wet/moist manures are generated at rates of 1.5:1 ratio to dry feeds.

Manure lose 50% mass in composting before becoming soil amendments.
Primary losses are H20 and CO2, neither one in short supply. Residuals
are then converted into next year's crops.

There is ZERO WASTE when intelligent runoff controls keeps excess
rains from carrying away nutrients.

It is perpetual recycling that has gone on for over 500 million years
since the Cambrian explosion.

Water has been recycled for at least 3.7 billion years. Over and over
and over.

There are areas here for better practices, better management. There is
no room for falsehoods and frauds.

ATKINS is not the authority. 20,000,000 years of teeth evolution has
identified that the diet has changed many times on the road to modern
human teeth, which include now both molars and incisors. Humans are
OMNIVORES, capable of eating a large assortment of foods including
meats, vegetables, seeds, berries, fish, grubs, and ice cream.

Not all food have equal beneficial or delitarious effects, and need to
be considered by themselves, in combination with the total diet, and
their ultimate environmental effects. Global vegetarianism is a recipe
for global environmental collapse. The world can tolerate some portion
of vegetarians but not a majority or totality.

Animals are vital to the global ecology. Their manures fertilize soils
in ways nothing else does. This world is now adapted to, and requires
carnivores.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

On 15 Aug 2004 17:13:18 GMT, markd RemoveThis @toad-net.com wrote:

>"However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta."
>
>If he said it he is wrong, humans evolved to eat a very wide range of food
>sources, in actual practice just about anything they can get their hands
>on is eaten. It is in general a function of the environment at any given
>place which in turn is a general function of the latitude and the forms of
>food sources supported.

Apparently the evidence now indicates that the Clovis culture ate 95%
pure meat diet, depleted the North American continent of most of its
large species of megafauna, including several species of elephantines
that roamed America.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

dh_ld DeleteThis @nomail.com wrote in message news:<k5avh09gb41i9fefhk2il4jm76r7rdkncq DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:21:21 +0100, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote:
>
> · From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
> draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is
> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals
> derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products
> contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
> better lives for cattle than soy or rice products. ·
>

That kind of reality is simply deflected by the extreme ideological
barriers surrounding animal rights fanatics. Bones and organs also
provide an exelent source of food heavily relied apon by ancient
humans and their ancestors. Not sure if you implied that in the 500
pounds of meat.

> _________________________________________________________
> [...]
> In the American Scientist article, Stanford describes witnessing the largest massacre
> ever documented at Gombe. Two hunting parties with a total of 33 chimps - two of
> them swollen females - converged on a group of 25 colobus monkeys. The male chimps
> chased and shook the monkeys from trees, eventually killing seven. Before Stanford's
> eyes, a large male chimp plucked a baby monkey from a branch and "dispatched it with
> a bite to the skull." The chimp then approached a swollen female with the carcass,
> dangling it just out of her reach until she presented her swelling. Only after copulation
> did the male share his food.
>
> "An important issue today in human male-female relationships is control," Stanford said.
> "What we're seeing is the evolutionary roots of this kind of mutual attempt to manipulate
> and control. Male chimps are using meat to control female behavior and female chimps
> are making use of their reproductive system to get meat."
> [...]
> http://www.usc.edu/ext-relations/news_service/chronicle_html/1995.02.0...tml/chi
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯


Some very fascinating stuff there thanks for the post. It is amazing
how they can mirror the basic aspects of what we call "human nature"
in such a pure form. And to observe that in a non human animal is
remarkable.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

"Psalm 110" <MOONIES.TakeThisOut@SwiftVets.NK> wrote in message
news:r2bvh0h65uovvj26ttfrs8lm8ssn14209u@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:54:11 GMT, "George Conklin"
> <nilknoc.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >>

snippage...

>
> There are areas here for better practices, better management. There is
> no room for falsehoods and frauds.
> ======================
LOL That's all pearl has, lys and delusions.





> ATKINS is not the authority. 20,000,000 years of teeth evolution has
> identified that the diet has changed many times on the road to modern
> human teeth, which include now both molars and incisors. Humans are
> OMNIVORES, capable of eating a large assortment of foods including
> meats, vegetables, seeds, berries, fish, grubs, and ice cream.
>
> Not all food have equal beneficial or delitarious effects, and need to
> be considered by themselves, in combination with the total diet, and
> their ultimate environmental effects. Global vegetarianism is a recipe
> for global environmental collapse. The world can tolerate some portion
> of vegetarians but not a majority or totality.
>
> Animals are vital to the global ecology. Their manures fertilize soils
> in ways nothing else does. This world is now adapted to, and requires
> carnivores.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

<markd DeleteThis @toad-net.com> wrote in message
news:411f99ae$0$248$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
> "However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta."
>
> If he said it he is wrong, humans evolved to eat a very wide range of food
> sources, in actual practice just about anything they can get their hands
> on is eaten. It is in general a function of the environment at any given
> place which in turn is a general function of the latitude and the forms of
> food sources supported.

And in what latitude was pasta grown? Get real.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

"Psalm 110" <MOONIES.TakeThisOut@SwiftVets.NK> wrote in message
news:ntbvh0lu16o9q6idqr3gb5823a8i63dl91@4ax.com...
> On 15 Aug 2004 17:13:18 GMT, markd.TakeThisOut@toad-net.com wrote:
>
> >"However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta."
> >
> >If he said it he is wrong, humans evolved to eat a very wide range of
food
> >sources, in actual practice just about anything they can get their hands
> >on is eaten. It is in general a function of the environment at any given
> >place which in turn is a general function of the latitude and the forms
of
> >food sources supported.
>
> Apparently the evidence now indicates that the Clovis culture ate 95%
> pure meat diet, depleted the North American continent of most of its
> large species of megafauna, including several species of elephantines
> that roamed America.

Tell the Sierra Club.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

<dh_ld.TakeThisOut@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:k5avh09gb41i9fefhk2il4jm76r7rdkncq@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:21:21 +0100, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
>
> >"George Conklin" <nilknoc.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:TyMTc.26047$Jp6.4437@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> >
> >> > I disagree with the author's stance on eating fish and chicken,
> >> > but otherwise a very interesting and informative article;
> >> >
> >> > http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24601
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> All this is very old, old news.
> >
> >To you perhaps.
> >
> >> If you feed an animal grain, you get back
> >> 9%-15% in food. Chickens are the worst. Pigs are 15%.
> >
> >For bovines the ratio is typically16lbs grain for 1lb beef gain,
> >or 6% of input (excluding silage or hay and supplements).
> >
> >'Typical animal and feeding statistics
> > Daily water consumption - 5-10 gallons
> > Daily day matter consumption
> > 15 pounds corn
> > 4 pounds corn silage
> > 1 pound of protein-mineral supplement
> > Daily gain - 2.7 pounds per day
> > Feed conversion efficiency - 7.4 pounds of feed per pound of gain
> > Initial weight - 700 pounds
> > Market weight - 1175 pounds
> > Cost of gain - $ 45.00 per 100 pounds
>
>http://beef.ans.msu.edu/Facilities/Beef_Cattle_Research_and_Teach/body_beef
_cattle_research_and_teach.html.
> >
> >beef gain = 34.44% of liveweight gain in feedlot.
> >Average 5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 1lb liveweight gain.
> >5.5lbs grain (excl.) to 0.34lbs beef = just over 16 : 1.
>
> · From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
> get thousands of dairy servings.


As Marvin Harris has pointed out, not eating cows in India is functional.
Yes, you can drink the milk. But in addition, bullocks are used as beasts
of burden and to pull plows. Cow pows are used as flooring--and yes, I have
slept on such a floor personally. Further, cow excrement is used in India
and Africa as a hot-burning fuel. If you kill the cow and eat it, you don't
get any of these benefits. Moraji Desai used only ethical leather, i.e.
leather from a cow who died a natural death. (He was PM of India).



Due to the influence of farm
> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
> draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is
> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals
> derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products
> contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
> better lives for cattle than soy or rice products. ·
>

Grass raised on American lawns and thrown into landfills could easily
support a cow. My grandmother kept a cow in a city garage, and it was not
uncommon in its time. It fed on the lawn.
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat 

"Psalm 110" <MOONIES.TakeThisOut@SwiftVets.NK> wrote in message
news:r2bvh0h65uovvj26ttfrs8lm8ssn14209u@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:54:11 GMT, "George Conklin"
> <nilknoc.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >news:cfnhvp$35c$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >>
> >> I disagree with the author's stance on eating fish and chicken,
> >> but otherwise a very interesting and informative article;
> >>
> >> http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24601
> >>
> >>
> >
> > All this is very old, old news. If you feed an animal grain, you get
back
> >9%-15% in food. Chickens are the worst. Pigs are 15%.
> >
> > And then of course is the water, since animals need a lot of it.
> >However, as Atkins points out, we evolved to eat meat, not pasta.
> >
> Conversion ratio of feed to live animal weight is about 2:1 for fish,
> 3.7:1 for chickens/rabbits small animals, 4:1 for pigs, up to 10:1 for
> cattle.
>
> Cattle however eat a large portion of their food as (indigestible to
> humans) range and pasteur grasses, hay and silage. They are loaded up
> in the last few months with grains.
>
> Wet/moist manures are generated at rates of 1.5:1 ratio to dry feeds.
>
> Manure lose 50% mass in composting before becoming soil amendments.
> Primary losses are H20 and CO2, neither one in short supply. Residuals
> are then converted into next year's crops.
>
> There is ZERO WASTE when intelligent runoff controls keeps excess
> rains from carrying away nutrients.
>
> It is perpetual recycling that has gone on for over 500 million years
> since the Cambrian explosion.
>
> Water has been recycled for at least 3.7 billion years. Over and over
> and over.
>
> There are areas here for better practices, better management. There is
> no room for falsehoods and frauds.
>

Cow manure can easily be put into a sealed container and generate usable
cooking gas. The slurry has lost none of its fertilizer value and can then
be used in the fields.

And while we are at it, we need to use human waste too. We produce
enough urea to feed ourselves, as long as we don't throw it in a river and
call it pollution. I had a British trailer (Sprite) and the instructions
for the toilet said, "Dilute 9 to 1 and place in the garden." In the USA,
we use zink to poison human waste.


> ATKINS is not the authority. 20,000,000 years of teeth evolution has
> identified that the diet has changed many times on the road to modern
> human teeth, which include now both molars and incisors. Humans are
> OMNIVORES, capable of eating a large assortment of foods including
> meats, vegetables, seeds, berries, fish, grubs, and ice cream.
>
And where did ice cream grow naturally to change our teeth?
 >> Stay informed about: The True Cost Of Meat