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Stop running away from it, Karen

 
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Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:18 pm
Post subject: Stop running away from it, Karen
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

You have several times expressed the fervent hope that
your grandson grow up to be homosexual. You claim,
unpersuasively, that it's so you might have a better
relationship with him, presumably than you imagine you
would have if he were normal.

That's a lie. The reason is, you know your son will
consider that a terrible result. You want your
grandson to be homosexual only as a vile, small-minded,
vengeful way of "getting back" at your son. That's
obvious to everyone.

You pretend that your son is solely responsible for the
poisoned relationship between the two of you.
Bullshit. If readers knew only of your filthy hope
that your grandson be homosexual, they'd know enough to
see that you bear huge fault for the shitty
relationship you have with your son. Of course, they
know much more than that: they know that you abandoned
your son repeatedly and in multiple ways when he was a
very small boy. Your moral and emotional abandonment
of him date from the very beginning.

When are you going to address this topic, Karen?
You've brought it up, voluntarily; you have no privacy
interest in it. Why can't you admit that you are
afraid of your son's reaction if he were to learn of
your hope for his son?

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Rubystars

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Since: Nov 15, 2003
Posts: 268



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jonathan Ball" <jonball.TakeThisOut@whitehouse.not> wrote in message
<snip>
> When are you going to address this topic, Karen?
> You've brought it up, voluntarily; you have no privacy
> interest in it. Why can't you admit that you are
> afraid of your son's reaction if he were to learn of
> your hope for his son?

I wonder if she really wants that or if she really did mean that
she wants to have a better relationship with him than she did with
his dad.

It doesn't matter what caused the rift between her and her son
as to whether she has a good relationship with her grandson,
since they're two different people.

I don't think it's very kind to wish homosexuality on anyone though,
since it is a marginalizing thing and not easy on the people who have it.]
Rat should know that since she says that she's part of an oppressed group
that is fighting for equal rights.

Then again I don't think it's very relevant to the issues of this newsgroup
to
drag Rat's personal life all over Usenet. None of us have to agree or
approve of what she does in her own family. I'm surprised that anyone
really cares what she does.

Is this just a way of avoiding discussing her points as regarding animal
rights,
or did she bring up all this family stuff?

I haven't been around long enough to know the background of all this.

-Rubystars

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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rubystars wrote:

> I wonder if she really wants that or if she really did mean that
> she wants to have a better relationship with him than she did with
> his dad.

That is correct.

<snip>
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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rubystars wrote:

<snip>

> If she feels that way she should work on forgiving her son for whatever she
> feels that
> he did to cause those feelings in her. Forgiveness is very important.. not
> only for the
> person someone's angry with, but for the person themselves. I think it would
> help her
> not to hold so much anger inside.

I have forgiven him. He will not forgive me. One cannot have a
one-sided dialog.

<snip>
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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jonathan Ball wrote:

<snip>


> Karen thinks she's the smartest person in the world, despite having had
> a job in her late 30s shampooing cats.

See - another lie. I've told jonnie this wasn't true.

I never had a job "shampooing cats."
<snip>
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Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rat & Swan wrote:

>
>
> Rubystars wrote:
>
>>
>>> When are you going to address this topic, Karen?
>>> You've brought it up, voluntarily; you have no privacy
>>> interest in it. Why can't you admit that you are
>>> afraid of your son's reaction if he were to learn of
>>> your hope for his son?
>>
>> I wonder if she really wants that or if she really did mean that
>> she wants to have a better relationship with him than she did with
>> his dad.
>
>
> That is correct.

That is EVASIVE, Karen. We know that your hope for
your grandson to be homosexual is a foul, vindictive
wish to inflict pain on your son. We also know that
you are concealing the hope from your son, because you
know that if he knew of it, you'd never see your
grandson again.

It is characteristically gutless and irresponsible of
you to avoid facing up to it here, when you're more
than willing to discuss other aspects of it.

You are the most appalling coward.
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Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rubystars wrote:

> "Jonathan Ball" <jonball.TakeThisOut@whitehouse.not> wrote in message
> <snip>
>
>>When are you going to address this topic, Karen?
>>You've brought it up, voluntarily; you have no privacy
>>interest in it. Why can't you admit that you are
>>afraid of your son's reaction if he were to learn of
>>your hope for his son?
>
>
> I wonder if she really wants that or if she really did mean that
> she wants to have a better relationship with him than she did with
> his dad.

I see that Karen has replied to you herself, in her
usually evasive, context-eradicating style. Her
smart-aleck answer, "that is correct", really is no
answer at all, because she didn't make clear WHICH of
the two possibilities you offered is the correct one.
In fact, she could well be saying that both are correct.

One thing is clear: it is not necessary for her
grandson to be a homosexual in order for Karen to be
able to have a good relationship with the boy. Karen,
a homosexual, claims to have had an excellent
relationship with her father, a heterosexual.

Karen's wish for the boy to become homosexual has
NOTHING to do with the possibility of having a good
relationship with him. It has EVERYTHING to do with a
wish to hurt her son.
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drdoody

External


Since: Jan 06, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Rat & Swan" <labrat.TakeThisOut@cybermesa.com> wrote in message
news:c1u5kb$dke$1@reader2.nmix.net...
>
>
> Rubystars wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > If she feels that way she should work on forgiving her son for whatever
she
> > feels that
> > he did to cause those feelings in her. Forgiveness is very important..
not
> > only for the
> > person someone's angry with, but for the person themselves. I think it
would
> > help her
> > not to hold so much anger inside.
>
> I have forgiven him. He will not forgive me. One cannot have a
> one-sided dialog.


Sorry, but I wouldn't have forgiven you, either.

Doc

--
And if you wish to avoid crushing social embarrassment, it's red wine
with dwarf, white with fetus.

Semolina Pilchard
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Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rat & Swan wrote:

>
>
> Rubystars wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> If she feels that way she should work on forgiving her son for
>> whatever she
>> feels that
>> he did to cause those feelings in her. Forgiveness is very important..
>> not
>> only for the
>> person someone's angry with, but for the person themselves. I think it
>> would
>> help her
>> not to hold so much anger inside.
>
>
> I have forgiven him.

There is NOTHING he did for which he might need your
forgiveness, you self absorbed shitbag.

> He will not forgive me.

Aha! I thought you didn't do anything wrong? You see?
You can't keep your lies straight, can you?

No, I imagine he does NOT forgive you for having
abandoned him, Karen. Among other things, you've never
apologized for it.
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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jonathan Ball wrote:

<snip>

>> I have forgiven him.

> There is NOTHING he did for which he might need your forgiveness, you
> self absorbed shitbag.

You may think so, but you are wrong.

>> He will not forgive me.

> Aha! I thought you didn't do anything wrong?

I never said that. But what I did wrong was not what you
accuse me of.

<snip>
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Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rat & Swan wrote:

>
>
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> Karen thinks she's the smartest person in the world, despite having
>> had a job in her late 30s shampooing cats.
>
>
> See - another lie. I've told jonnie this wasn't true.
>
> I never had a job "shampooing cats."

That was one of your job responsibilities, probably the
main one. It was low-paid, unskilled scut work. You
had a college degree, plus a lot of time in graduate
school, and for all intents and purposes, you were
shampooing cats. You had abandoned your son, so you
had the luxury, as it were, of CHOOSING not to find
higher paid work.
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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jonathan Ball wrote:


> Rat & Swan wrote:
<snip>

>> See - another lie. I've told jonnie this wasn't true.

>> I never had a job "shampooing cats."

> That was one of your job responsibilities, probably the main one.

No, it was not. That is a lie.

You simply cannot avoid lying about me. You are pathological
about it.

Try truth, jonnie. It's remarkable what honesty will do to
give you a clean conscience. You should try it sometime.


Rat
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Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

drdoody wrote:

> "Rat & Swan" <labrat DeleteThis @cybermesa.com> wrote in message
> news:c1u5kb$dke$1@reader2.nmix.net...
>
>>
>>Rubystars wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>If she feels that way she should work on forgiving her son for whatever
>
> she
>
>>>feels that
>>>he did to cause those feelings in her. Forgiveness is very important..
>
> not
>
>>>only for the
>>>person someone's angry with, but for the person themselves. I think it
>
> would
>
>>>help her
>>>not to hold so much anger inside.
>>
>>I have forgiven him. He will not forgive me. One cannot have a
>>one-sided dialog.
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I wouldn't have forgiven you, either.

Note that she has now inadvertently admitted there was
something for her son to forgive. She's spent the last
six weeks saying she did nothing wrong. Her son
obviously feels she did do something wrong. Karen is
too gutless to let us read her son in his own words,
but I think it's pretty obvious he feels she abandoned
him. She did.

Her irresponsibility in this, and her failure to
address the issue honestly, are relevant to the issue
of her wish to ram her authoritarian philosophy down
the throat of the rest of us, when she can't bother
being responsible enough to abide by the dictates of it
herself.
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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jonathan Ball wrote:

<snip>

> Note that she has now inadvertently admitted there was something for her
> son to forgive.

That is true of every person, jonnie -- including you. If you think
you are perfect, and have never done anything which needs
forgiveness, you are wrong -- and a monumental, arrogant egotist.
What was that about not taking responsibility?

> She's spent the last six weeks saying she did nothing
> wrong.

Never, jonnie. I've said I did not do what you accused me of doing.
And that is the truth.

Rat
<snip>
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Rubystars

External


Since: Nov 15, 2003
Posts: 268



(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Stop running away from it, Karen [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"rick etter" <retterstop RemoveThis @bright.net> wrote in message
news:HuydnR5c_KVmGt_dRVn-vw@bright.net...
> And yet, I'd bet that everyone here on this group, she is about the only
one
> that has ever come close to doing that. Only she used a mouse, ripped
it's
> skin off, while alive, and then drowned it. Quite the humanitarian...

That's a terrible claim. :S Is there a google link you can give me to this
confession?

-Rubystars
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