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Next: The perfect foil (and her moral confusion)
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Since: Dec 10, 2004 Posts: 109
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:18 pm
Post subject: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)
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"vegan" claims, the problems with the claims, and the
path of "vegan" retreat:
1. By refraining from consuming animal parts, I cause
ZERO animal suffering and death.
Problem: Denying the Antecedent fallacy. There are
other ways to cause animal suffering and death that do
not involve consuming animal parts. "vegans" DO cause
animal suffering and death.
Retreat to:
2. By refraining from consuming animal parts, I am
"doing the best I can" not to cause animal suffering
and death.
Problems: "vegans" do not know the relative impact in
terms of animal death and suffering of the things they
DO consume. Rice, wheat and potatoes, three relatively
close nutritional substitutes in the diet, cause
different average amounts of animal suffering and death
in their cultivation, harvest and distribution.
Because "vegans" make no effort to determine the lowest
death toll and eliminate the high-death items from
their consumption, they are seen NOT to be "doing the
best they can."
Retreat to:
3. By refraining from consuming animal parts, I am
doing better than you omnivores.
Problems: self evident. Virtue can NEVER consist of
doing less of some allegedly bad thing than someone
else is doing. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In rec.boats Jay Santos <jay.RemoveThis@philhendrieshow.con> wrote:
> "vegan" claims, the problems with the claims, and the
> path of "vegan" retreat:
Whatever. I just picked up a 12 pound prime rib to cook for xmas dinner.
Dan
--
USENET is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea --
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and
a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least
expect it.
-- Gene Spafford >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Marshall Banana" <dan.DeleteThis@angband.org> wrote
> > "vegan" claims, the problems with the claims, and the
> > path of "vegan" retreat:
>
> Whatever. I just picked up a 12 pound prime rib to cook for xmas dinner.
Yeah, and I just caught a 30 pound turkey, wringed its neck, skinned it, and
stuffed it in the freezer. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"name" <enternamehere.DeleteThis@now.com> wrote in message
news:Ty0xd.33613$%p1.2203866@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Marshall Banana" <dan.DeleteThis@angband.org> wrote
>
>> > "vegan" claims, the problems with the claims, and the
>> > path of "vegan" retreat:
>>
>> Whatever. I just picked up a 12 pound prime rib to cook for xmas dinner.
>
>
> Yeah, and I just caught a 30 pound turkey, wringed its neck, skinned it,
> and
> stuffed it in the freezer.
>
A 30lb turkey would kick your ass. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 19, 2004 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"name" <enternamehere RemoveThis @now.com> wrote in message
news:Ty0xd.33613$%p1.2203866@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Marshall Banana" <dan RemoveThis @angband.org> wrote
>
> > > "vegan" claims, the problems with the claims, and the
> > > path of "vegan" retreat:
> >
> > Whatever. I just picked up a 12 pound prime rib to cook for xmas
dinner.
>
>
> Yeah, and I just caught a 30 pound turkey, wringed its neck, skinned it,
and
> stuffed it in the freezer.
>
>
You meany. I am not causing any suffering like that. I am just using my
Honey Baked Ham gift certificate.
;)
Bill >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 19, 2004 Posts: 52
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Dec 19, 2004 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:32 am
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:
> BEEF. It's what's for dinner.
>
>
Real wild turkey were incredible animals. Ben Franklin wanted to make
them our national bird. Intelligent. Picky eaters. Fast. The things
that are manufactured are nothing like a natural turkey. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Nov 13, 2003 Posts: 354
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Beach Runner wrote:
>> BEEF. It's what's for dinner.
>>
> Real wild turkey were incredible animals.
They still are.
> Ben Franklin wanted to make
> them our national bird.
Thank goodness cooler heads prevailed.
> Intelligent.
Not very, but they're very skittish. Skittishness is not the same as
intelligence.
> Picky eaters.
Not very.
> Fast.
Usually, but they slow down pretty quickly when hit with lead or an arrow.
> The things
> that are manufactured are nothing like a natural turkey.
Domestic turkeys aren't manufactured. They're living creatures just like
wild turkeys. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 19, 2004 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"usual suspect" <support RemoveThis @our.troops> wrote in message
news:legxd.59100$2e.34325@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Beach Runner wrote:
> >> BEEF. It's what's for dinner.
> >>
> > Real wild turkey were incredible animals.
>
> They still are.
>
> > Ben Franklin wanted to make
> > them our national bird.
>
> Thank goodness cooler heads prevailed.
>
> > Intelligent.
>
> Not very, but they're very skittish. Skittishness is not the same as
> intelligence.
>
> > Picky eaters.
>
> Not very.
>
> > Fast.
>
> Usually, but they slow down pretty quickly when hit with lead or an arrow.
>
> > The things
> > that are manufactured are nothing like a natural turkey.
>
> Domestic turkeys aren't manufactured. They're living creatures just like
> wild turkeys.
The flocks by my house are not hunted and only predator is a coyote or rare
mountain lion, so they are not very skittish. And domestic turkey comes
close to being manufactured. They have been bred with such large breasts
that they can not naturally breed. All domestic turkeys in the stores are
artificially conceived. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 19, 2004 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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To quote you "Bullshit"
It is not just bigger scale, it is also methods of production. Maybe not in
Backbrush, Texas. But the rest of the country changed production methods as
well as scale. You still getting DUI's. To many Roadies? >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 19, 2004 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:49 am
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"basskisser" <atl_man2 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103558593.860712.59700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Calif Bill wrote:
> All domestic turkeys in the stores are
> > artificially conceived.
>
> WRONG! AGAIN!
>
> You would be correct if you said most, instead of all. That is simply
> not correct information. For one thing, I guess you've never heard of
> parthenogenesis.
>
I doubt there is more than 1 or 2 virgin birth turkeys a year in the turkey
production business. Get a f'n brain! >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Nov 13, 2003 Posts: 354
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Calif Bill wrote:
> To quote you "Bullshit"
Still relying on me for everything. Why are you so unoriginal?
> It is not just bigger scale, it is also methods of production.
No, it isn't. Turkeys still hatch from eggs, eat, and get processed into
sandwich meat or are left mostly intact for roasting.
> Maybe not in Backbrush, Texas.
Central Texas is hardly "Backbrush." Ask all your former neighbors
who've moved here and have no intention of ever returning to California.
> But the rest of the country changed production methods as
> well as scale.
Nope. Only the scale has changed.
> You still getting DUI's.
I don't drink. You didn't answer my question. How many DUIs did you have
in high school? >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 21, 2004 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"usual suspect" <support.RemoveThis@our.troops> wrote in message
news:48Wxd.39915$jf5.1330@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> Calif Bill wrote:
>> To quote you "Bullshit"
>
> Still relying on me for everything. Why are you so unoriginal?
>
>> It is not just bigger scale, it is also methods of production.
>
> No, it isn't. Turkeys still hatch from eggs, eat, and get processed into
> sandwich meat or are left mostly intact for roasting.
Of course, the basic tenets of turkey procreation haven't changed. But
turkeys ARE produced for market - they are products just as cars and
computers are products. Every kind of farming utilizes technology and
automation (including specialized machinery) to increase production yield
and efficiency and to lower costs. Insemination has been automated, feeding
has been automated, slaughter has been automated, processing and packaging
has been automated. Turkeys have been bred to produce more meat and they are
typically fed growth hormones and other chemicals to bring them to market
faster. Yes, they're still turkey farms, but they are operated more and more
like automated factories. You know all of this, yet you still take a
hardline contrary position simply because you hate anything that vegans
stand for.
>> You still getting DUI's.
>
> I don't drink. You didn't answer my question. How many DUIs did you have
> in high school?
And this has WHAT to do with turkey production or veganism?? Or are you just
trying to stir turkey droppings? That's your typical MO - launch into
personal attacks if you can't get them to buy into your BS. >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 21, 2004 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"C. James Strutz" <strutzj RemoveThis @UNSPAMstrutz.com> wrote in message
news:10sggtds0ot1u3f@news.supernews.com...
>
<snip>
>That's your typical MO - launch into personal attacks if you can't get them
>to buy into your BS.
>
Dang.......sounds like our resident "King of the NG idiots" asslicker..... >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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Since: Dec 21, 2004 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Steadily eroding "vegan" LIES [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)
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"usual suspect" <support.TakeThisOut@our.troops> wrote in message
news:fS_xd.64758$2e.59557@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> C. James Strutz wrote:
>> glossing over the FACT that turkeys are fed and injected with chemicals
>> to make them grow larger faster whether or not they are called
>> "hormones".
>
> *You* are the one claiming they're fed growth hormones -- and that they're
> called hormones. Quit your bitching, liar.
You're the one whose being deceitful by glossing over the issue that turkeys
are "processed" with chemicals to bring them to market faster. Do you deny
it? I didn't think so, then stop trying to cast me as a liar for a
semantical error.
<UNSNIP>
>> You still getting DUI's.
>
> I don't drink. You didn't answer my question. How many DUIs did you have
> in high school?
And this has WHAT to do with turkey production or veganism?? Or are you just
trying to stir turkey droppings? That's your typical MO - launch into
personal attacks if you can't get them to buy into your BS.
</UNSNIP>
That's twice you have snipped this out. Are you going to address your
comments and apologize to "Calif Bill" or are you going to continue to evade
and hide like a coward? >> Stay informed about: Steadily eroding "vegan" claims |
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