Sick fish

<<Are his scaled sticking out all over?>>

If you means scales, no. His belly is extended on one side. He still
manages to eat though, even though he is swimming sideways.

Thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

Hi Jeanne, I dont have an answer for you on how to cure your fish but
please dont flush any fish especially if its still alive. That is very
cruel : ( If you feel that you need to euthenize then place the fish
in a shallow bowl of water, just enough to cover it completly cover
with a lid or saran wrap and put it in the freezer. Leave him in the
freezer for atleast 24 hours. Many people feel this is a very humane
way to distroy a fish.

Maria
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

Hi - no, I don't really flush, that's just an expression. I had a fish
die on me last year and I placed him in the wastebasket, already dead.

Fish don't feel pain, correct? Due to the fact they don't have a
nervous system, only a reactive system? This is what I've heard and
read - they are luckier than we humans if you ask me.

Thanks for the freezer information, I hope it doesn't come to that.
Jeanne
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

"JeanneD" <jmdjeanne DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105328988.658954.201980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi - no, I don't really flush, that's just an expression. I had a fish
> die on me last year and I placed him in the wastebasket, already dead.
>
> Fish don't feel pain, correct? Due to the fact they don't have a
> nervous system, only a reactive system? This is what I've heard and
> read - they are luckier than we humans if you ask me.
>
> Thanks for the freezer information, I hope it doesn't come to that.

This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
mammals.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

Katra wrote:
>
> Great site! I've bookmarked that for later reference for myself, thanks!
>
> I've not had pet goldies now for several years, but I just adore them.
> I had them back when I was a senior in college. 3 in a 15 gallon tank.
>
> What is the maximum biomass (number of goldfish) per gallon of water?
> I'm not quite ready to start another goldfish tank, but it's in the
> works as is a pond.
>

1 goldfish per 10 gallon or 3 gallons of water per one inch of fish, whichever
is greater.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

Benign Vanilla wrote:
>
> This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
> define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
> mammals.
>

I agree with the above poster. I think fish do feel pain, I'm sure I read the
results of a
study where they monitored a fish (a while ago) and the fish was showing what
would
scientifically equate to stress or pain.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

In article <41E23975.5DF6EF75.RemoveThis@Freezer.com>,
Geezer From The Freezer <Geezer.RemoveThis@Freezer.com> wrote:

> Katra wrote:
> >
> > Great site! I've bookmarked that for later reference for myself, thanks!
> >
> > I've not had pet goldies now for several years, but I just adore them.
> > I had them back when I was a senior in college. 3 in a 15 gallon tank.
> >
> > What is the maximum biomass (number of goldfish) per gallon of water?
> > I'm not quite ready to start another goldfish tank, but it's in the
> > works as is a pond.
> >
>
> 1 goldfish per 10 gallon or 3 gallons of water per one inch of fish, whichever
> is greater.

And with goldies, the way they grow, that would change really quick. ;-)
Thanks! I originally had 1 per 5 gallons... They did very well until
they got to be the size of my fist. I like the fantails.

I want to get a bubble eye.

Thank you!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

In article <41E23A36.BBC33B10.RemoveThis@Freezer.com>,
Geezer From The Freezer <Geezer.RemoveThis@Freezer.com> wrote:

> Benign Vanilla wrote:
> >
> > This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
> > define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
> > mammals.
> >
>
> I agree with the above poster. I think fish do feel pain, I'm sure I read the
> results of a
> study where they monitored a fish (a while ago) and the fish was showing what
> would
> scientifically equate to stress or pain.

Well, I look at it this way...

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,
a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I once ran across a guy that had just caught some trout in a stream...
He was gutting them ALIVE! The poor fish was struggling and he was
having trouble.

So, I offered to help him, and showed him how to first kill the trout
the way my parents taught me to. A hard whack or three to the top of the
head, right behind the eyes where the brain is.

Showed him that gutting a dead fish that was not struggling in agony was
a lot easier. :-P

Then I asked him how HE would like to be gutted alive!

Honestly, why can't we have the same compassion for animals as for
humans??? <sigh>

As for freezing a fish, I think that would work as fish are exothermic.
As they get cold, they get sluggish. I think that would work ok for fish
but not for mammals. Personally, I'd whack them to kill them instantly.
Not easy, but effective. :-P

Just my 2 cents...
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

<<They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,

a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?>>

I guess I believe the scientists. They say no nervous system=no pain,
just a reactive system. I believe they feel pressure, the same way a
person can feel a doctor cut into them without pain when they've been
anesthetized first. But I'm open minded to both arguments and would
rather err on the side of caution.

If think I'd rather do the refridgerator thing than whack my little
black goldfish. :)

Jeanne
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

about using kiddie pools as ponds.. do you bury them? or just set them
on the ground?

I always thought one of those might make a cheap pond (since I move
every 12-24 months spending lots of cash on a nice deep pond doesn't
make much sense). But they're pretty ugly so I'd probably want to build
a little brick wall around it & fill the space with dirt or something.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

for those squeamish about whacking their beloved pets, putting them in
an old sock sometimes helps.

I used to have to kill mice for my pet snake, and I couldn't bear to
look at their cute little furry bodies and then smash them :( But it's
much more humane than letting my snake squeeze them until they're
paralized and then swallow them while they're still alive.

altho i'm pretty sure even with a sock I couldn't do that to one of my
fish. I'd have to have one of my roomates do it, or go with the clove
oil method.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

A search through the NG for "clove oil" should bring up more
information, but clove oil is sold as an oral anesthetic, and
overdosing your fish with it is considered a relatively humane way to
euthanize them. It's also used in small amouts to temporarily
anesthetize them to take care of wounds.

from an older post:
"The proper dose is 1 cc of eugenol (clove oil) + 9 ccs vodka to one
gallon
of water. Or for larger fish 2cc of eugenol (clove oil) to 18cc of
vodka to
2 gallons of water. Use the same ratio of 1cc eugenol/9cc vodka for
every
gallon of water you use. Mix the clove oil and vodka together before
adding
to water. After you add the mixture to the water, place the fish in the
solution. LEAVE THE FISH IN THE SOLUTION FOR APPROX 10 MINUTES. The
results are very quick and painless."

hth.
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish 

In article <1105375541.887456.269730.RemoveThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"JeanneD" <jmdjeanne.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:

> <<They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
> throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,
>
> a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?>>
>
> I guess I believe the scientists. They say no nervous system=no pain,
> just a reactive system. I believe they feel pressure, the same way a
> person can feel a doctor cut into them without pain when they've been
> anesthetized first. But I'm open minded to both arguments and would
> rather err on the side of caution.
>
> If think I'd rather do the refridgerator thing than whack my little
> black goldfish. :)
>
> Jeanne
>

Yes... I understand. ;-)

We've talked about euthansia and processing on different animal lists.
The most "interesting" conversations have been about how to mercifully
kill chickens and various other farm animals for processing.

I know it's very hard for most people to "whack" their animals even tho'
it's a very good and quick way to put them down, but it's nice to have
alternatives.

Too bad there is no "sleepy" chemical one can put in the water for fish?

I've taken zoology classes with some comparitive anatomy. AFAIK
modern/advanced bony fish (Osteichthyes) do have a fully functional
nervous system???????
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
 >> Stay informed about: Sick fish