Parrot worked to death?

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:42:10 -0400, "Ocean of Nuance"
<lizzardwomanRMOVE.DeleteThis@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>
>"Steve" <sstevelp.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1190040814.400473.178230@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>| On Sep 15, 10:56 pm, "M.J." <M....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>| > <j....DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>| >
>| > news:agkne3turom9io0714e7d97ge5e401heru@4ax.com...
>| >
>| > Blah, blah, blah.
>| >
>| > I 've cut out the nonsense from your post, but will reply to your
>questions
>| > about preconceived ideas and personal views. Sure I express my personal
>| > views but these have extensive backing in real empirical data i.e.
>| > experiences
>| > I have gathered over a perion of nearly 10 years of being an TAG owner.
>| >
>| > My 10 year old TAG (Timneh African Grey) Mbeki whom I have raised
>| > and handfed since 6 weeks old is a cute playful and intelligent little
>| > fellow.
>| > Compared to Alex Mbeki is probalby a great moron as his vocabulary is
>| > only around 6-7 words. I have subjected Mbeki to learning lessons many
>| > times and have always noticed that the bird tires immensely after about
>| > 15-20 minutes of mental exercersise -becomes cranky, and wants to leave,
>| > go back to the cage, playtop, or whatever.
>| >
>| > Sure, slowly and over time he could be made to endure longer and longer
>| > sessions until he probably would be able to withstand a gruelling 8-12
>hour
>| > working/learning day, but I know this would not be without a risk of
>| > negative
>| > long term consequenses.
>| >
>| > Mbeki is my pet, and not some ALEX (Avian Learning EXperiment)
>| > therefore I don't "torment" him past the 10-15 minute that he playfully
>| > offers me.
>| >
>| > M.J.
>| >
>|
>| You are clearly ignorant of the methods that Dr Pepperberg used with
>| Alex as well as the life and relationships he had
>| with the other lab helpers and fellow parrots.
>| Alex's sessions were typically half hour or less. He was quite capable
>| of ending sessions when he had had enough.
>| Where on earth do you get the idea that Alex had an 8 or 12 hour
>| working day?
>| It would be safe to say that no pet parrot had a better life than Alex
>| including yours.
>| Now as you still have 20 years or so to go before Mbeki reaches Alex's
>| age perhaps you can do us all a favor
>| and repost in 20 years to let us know that he is still alive.
>| (Of course I hope he is)
>
>Plus aren't we all forgetting that there is a possibility the bird was an
>idiot savant of the parrot world and therefore whatever work he had may have
>PROLONGED his life? Since folks are throwing around evidence-free
>assertions, I just thought I'd toss one in. ; )
>
I have considered it. In the wild, ALEX may have died of
whatever a lot sooner than in captivity and his life could have been
prolonged by the lab personnel even above being someone's pet with the
attention to his diet and his health they provided.





James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control
E-Mail jfma.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

<jfma RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:p3hbf31dsgd0kgh31fe0sq7hsm9le8v978@4ax.com...
| On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:06:08 -0400, "Ocean of Nuance"
| <lizzardwomanRMOVE RemoveThis @nc.rr.com> wrote:
|
| >
| ><jfma RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
| >news:agkne3turom9io0714e7d97ge5e401heru@4ax.com...
| >| On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:41:35 GMT, "M.J." <M.J. RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
| >
| >(snip)
| >
| >| > No wonder Alex died so young.
| >| >
| >|
| >| There are humans that die young too from things that have gone
| >| un-noticed for years too but that is, somehow, different to you. Maybe
| >| they will come up with just why he died after all of the tests are in
| >| but you want to rant on about facts that are not in evidence to push
| >| some political agenda you might have. You probably won't be satisfied
| >| even then because you have an axe to grind and accuse the labs and
| >| whoever else is involved in a cover up to hide the truth.
| >
| >The data likely don't exist but I'd like to know the mortality rate of 31
yo
| >AG parrots. I think it's safe to assume it is non-zero and not just
because
| >of Alex.
| >
| In the wild or in captivity? In the wild it would be much
| higher, I would presume.

Yes certainly but I bet it's non-zero even in captivity and even among
well-kept birds.

Horses who are well-kept die at relatively young ages also. I am suggesting
that the idea of this bird dying at 31 is not unheard of nor jaw-dropping
per se. Unusual,yes. Sinister? No way.

sharon
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:04:21 +0100, <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:00:49 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none.RemoveThis@spam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:04:18 +0100, <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J..RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Steve" <sstevelp.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1190383100.352044.85890@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
>>>>> periods on business.
>>>>> He had stopped plucking years ago.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know, have read that a few years ago he
>>>> was still plucking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
>>>>> One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
>>>>> Grey parrot once it has matured.
>>>>> I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
>>>>> random from a pet shop
>>>>> but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
>>>>> tell his true age.
>>>>> You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Up to around 2 years of age it's possible for a somewhat experienced
>>>> person to distinguish if the bird is young.
>>>
>>> You've got to be experienced to se a change in eye color?
>>
>> You've got to be experienced to know that's the change to look for.
>
> The information is readily available for anyone that isn't to lazy to
> too no you don't

"lazy to too no you don't"? Please speak English.

>>>> He might have been older,
>>>> than 1 yr when bought, but probably not by much.
>>>>
>>>> It is not out of the question though that he might have been bought
>>>> an older bird (?). Irene was no expert then I suppose.
>>>>
>>>> Wildcaught? I don't think so, very unlikely, as these are not
>>>> easy to tame, even if young.
>>>
>>> and you know this how?
>>
>> Maybe he's tried it?
>
> I doubt it but let's say he did. How many?

That's why he said "unlikely" and not "impossible".

>>>> But on the other hand they are
>>>> supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
>>>> and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
>>>> are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.
>>>>
>>> BTW it has been speculated t Alex might have succumbed to
>>> Aspergillosis, a fungal infection of the lungs that he had battled in
>>> the past.
>>
>> So you're using speculation too?
>
> Speculation with fact behind it.

Hmmmm, like "an educated guess". Right....


--
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If "con" is the opposite of "pro", then what is the opposite of progress?
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:23:36 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none DeleteThis @spam.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:04:21 +0100, <xpenenyx DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:00:49 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none DeleteThis @spam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:04:18 +0100, <xpenenyx DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J. DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Steve" <sstevelp DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1190383100.352044.85890@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
>>>>>> periods on business.
>>>>>> He had stopped plucking years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know, have read that a few years ago he
>>>>> was still plucking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
>>>>>> One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
>>>>>> Grey parrot once it has matured.
>>>>>> I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
>>>>>> random from a pet shop
>>>>>> but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
>>>>>> tell his true age.
>>>>>> You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Up to around 2 years of age it's possible for a somewhat experienced
>>>>> person to distinguish if the bird is young.
>>>>
>>>> You've got to be experienced to se a change in eye color?
>>>
>>> You've got to be experienced to know that's the change to look for.
>>
The information is readily available for anyone that isn't to lazy to
look for it.
>
>"lazy to too no you don't"? Please speak English.

Now how about addressing your claim that one needs to be experienced
to know that the eye color changes as an AG ages.
>
>>>>> He might have been older,
>>>>> than 1 yr when bought, but probably not by much.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not out of the question though that he might have been bought
>>>>> an older bird (?). Irene was no expert then I suppose.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wildcaught? I don't think so, very unlikely, as these are not
>>>>> easy to tame, even if young.
>>>>
>>>> and you know this how?
>>>
>>> Maybe he's tried it?

What's he got to do with anything?
>>
>> I doubt it but let's say he did. How many?
>
>That's why he said "unlikely" and not "impossible".


>
>>>>> But on the other hand they are
>>>>> supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
>>>>> and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
>>>>> are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.
>>>>>
>>>> BTW it has been speculated t Alex might have succumbed to
>>>> Aspergillosis, a fungal infection of the lungs that he had battled in
>>>> the past.
>>>
>>> So you're using speculation too?
>>
>> Speculation with fact behind it.
>
>Hmmmm, like "an educated guess". Right....

You might call it that.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:01:25 +0100, <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:23:36 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none.RemoveThis@spam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:04:21 +0100, <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:00:49 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none.RemoveThis@spam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:04:18 +0100, <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J..RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You've got to be experienced to se a change in eye color?
>>>>
>>>> You've got to be experienced to know that's the change to look for.
>>>
> The information is readily available for anyone that isn't to lazy to
> look for it.
>>
>> "lazy to too no you don't"? Please speak English.
>
> Now how about addressing your claim

Nice change of subject.

> that one needs to be experienced
> to know that the eye color changes as an AG ages.

I didn't, MJ did. You appear to be a little confused.

>>>>> and you know this how?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe he's tried it?
>
> What's he got to do with anything?

He started the discussion.

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\ ~-l `\ `\ \ \\ ~\ \ `. .-~ |
\ ~-. "-. ` \ ^._ ^. "-. / \ |
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(_/ / | | j-" ~^
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sep 23, 7:18 pm, "Ocean of Nuance" <lizzardwomanRM... DeleteThis @nc.rr.com>
wrote:
> <j... DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5k6ef39ue7l9g1qnfu2ate871pmv45en7l@4ax.com...
> | On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:23:29 -0800, "M.J." <M... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> || ><j... DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> | >news:isgbf3h0g6nqun4kugikqfk79vaodp92t1@4ax.com...
> | >> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:22:26 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <n... DeleteThis @spam.com>| >> wrote:
>
> | >
> | >>>> Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter
> | >>>> every day?
> | >>>
> | >>>Not 100 times a day.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Every action is an exercise in problem solving.
> | >> Finding food, even if it is handed to you in a dish is an exercise
> | >> in problem solving.
> | >
> | >
> | >Alex could have sat in front of a bowl and solved problems
> | >of this type i.e. whether to pick a nut or a cracker all day long
> | >and it would have had no impact on him as this type of problem
> | >solving has nothing to do with is complex abstract thinking.
> | >
> | >The type of exercises he was given in the lab were taxing his
> | >brain like no other parrots' in the wild. Can't you realize that
> | >simple fact? Do you have some mental disability that prevents
> | >you from differentiating such basics?
> | >
> | >M.J.
> | >
> | >
> | What I know is that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
>
> I think these birds are being worked to death...
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=KA2QusBbwac
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJbmVM2NaLs&NR=1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PyAfHggV1s&NR=1
>
> sharon
>
> --
> "Lights will guide you home
> And ignite your bones
> And I will try to fix you"
>
> -- C. Martin

The birds are all more talented than my husband trying to sing "The
Twelve Days of Christmas"!
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:23:29 -0800, "M.J." <M.J..TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

><jfma.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:isgbf3h0g6nqun4kugikqfk79vaodp92t1@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:22:26 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none.TakeThisOut@spam.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>> Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter
>>>> every day?
>>>
>>>Not 100 times a day.
>>
>>
>> Every action is an exercise in problem solving.
>> Finding food, even if it is handed to you in a dish is an exercise
>> in problem solving.
>
>
>Alex could have sat in front of a bowl and solved problems
>of this type i.e. whether to pick a nut or a cracker all day long
>and it would have had no impact on him as this type of problem
>solving has nothing to do with is complex abstract thinking.
>
>The type of exercises he was given in the lab were taxing his
>brain like no other parrots' in the wild. Can't you realize that
>simple fact? Do you have some mental disability that prevents
>you from differentiating such basics?
>
>M.J.
>
>
What I know is that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.





James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control
E-Mail jfma.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

<jfma.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:5k6ef39ue7l9g1qnfu2ate871pmv45en7l@4ax.com...
| On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:23:29 -0800, "M.J." <M.J..TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
|
| ><jfma.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
| >news:isgbf3h0g6nqun4kugikqfk79vaodp92t1@4ax.com...
| >> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:22:26 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none.TakeThisOut@spam.com>
| >> wrote:
| >
| >>>> Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter
| >>>> every day?
| >>>
| >>>Not 100 times a day.
| >>
| >>
| >> Every action is an exercise in problem solving.
| >> Finding food, even if it is handed to you in a dish is an exercise
| >> in problem solving.
| >
| >
| >Alex could have sat in front of a bowl and solved problems
| >of this type i.e. whether to pick a nut or a cracker all day long
| >and it would have had no impact on him as this type of problem
| >solving has nothing to do with is complex abstract thinking.
| >
| >The type of exercises he was given in the lab were taxing his
| >brain like no other parrots' in the wild. Can't you realize that
| >simple fact? Do you have some mental disability that prevents
| >you from differentiating such basics?
| >
| >M.J.
| >
| >
| What I know is that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I think these birds are being worked to death...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KA2QusBbwac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJbmVM2NaLs&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PyAfHggV1s&NR=1

sharon

--
"Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you"

-- C. Martin
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sep 14, 10:36 pm, "M.J." <M... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Ocean of Nuance" <lizzardwomanRM... RemoveThis @nc.rr.com> wrote in messagenews:5l0koqF5p8igU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > Can I just ask a question here?
>
> > How unheard of is a bird like this dying at 31?
>
> > I have a scientific colleague who had some type of bird like this
> > (different
> > species) for several years. One year it died suddenly and I'm guessing it
> > was not wildly far from 31 based on what I know of the history. Jaws
> > didn't
> > drop.
>
> And a bunch of top national avian specialists could not identify
> the of the death? I don't think so!
>
> Alex's death is troubling, in a sense that no cause of death has been
> identified, therefore all the speculation.

You haven't been speculating. You have been extremely certain in an
area where no one really knows a damn thing. That his early death
might have been due to an overly ambitious and stressful training
schedule is not impossible. That this should be looked into is a very
good suggestion. That you know exactly what happened, which is what
you _seemed_ to be saying in earlier posts, is not true.

Our very young Eddisson doesn't seem to want to learn anything except
to cuddle with humans and to quarrel with our equally young Severe
Macaw. Does that mean he will live to be seventy?

Will in New Haven

--


>
> M.J.
>
>
>
>
>
> > sharon- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 03:18:46 +0100, Ocean of Nuance <lizzardwomanRMOVE.DeleteThis@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>
> <jfma.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:5k6ef39ue7l9g1qnfu2ate871pmv45en7l@4ax.com...
> | On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:23:29 -0800, "M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> |
> | ><jfma.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> | >news:isgbf3h0g6nqun4kugikqfk79vaodp92t1@4ax.com...
> | >> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:22:26 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none.DeleteThis@spam.com>
> | >> wrote:
> | >
> | >>>> Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter
> | >>>> every day?
> | >>>
> | >>>Not 100 times a day.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Every action is an exercise in problem solving.
> | >> Finding food, even if it is handed to you in a dish is an exercise
> | >> in problem solving.
> | >
> | >
> | >Alex could have sat in front of a bowl and solved problems
> | >of this type i.e. whether to pick a nut or a cracker all day long
> | >and it would have had no impact on him as this type of problem
> | >solving has nothing to do with is complex abstract thinking.
> | >
> | >The type of exercises he was given in the lab were taxing his
> | >brain like no other parrots' in the wild. Can't you realize that
> | >simple fact? Do you have some mental disability that prevents
> | >you from differentiating such basics?
> | >
> | >M.J.
> | >
> | >
> | What I know is that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill..
>
> I think these birds are being worked to death...
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=KA2QusBbwac

That poor cockatoo has an owner who can't sing.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJbmVM2NaLs&NR=1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PyAfHggV1s&NR=1

Wow. I want one. But I gather they shriek even more than Conures.

--
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A man takes the day off work and decides to go out golfing. He is on the second hole when he notices a frog sitting next to the green. He thinks nothing of it and is about to shoot when he hears, "Ribbit, 9 Iron" The man looks around and doesn't see anyone. "Ribbit, 9 Iron." He looks at the frog and decides to prove the frog wrong, puts his other club away, and grabs a 9 iron. Boom! He hits it 10 inches from the cup. He is shocked.
He says to the frog, "Wow that's amazing. You must be a lucky frog, eh?" The frog reply's "Ribbit, Lucky frog."
The man decides to take the frog with him to the next hole. "What do you think frog?" the man asks. "Ribbit, 3 wood." The guy takes out a 3 wood and Boom! Hole in one. The man is befuddled and doesn't know what to say. By the end of the day, the man golfed the best game of golf in his life and asks the frog,"OK where to next?"
The frog replies, "Ribbit. Las Vegas." They go to "Las Vegas and the guy says, "OK frog, now what?" The frog says, "Ribbit, Roulette." Upon approaching the roulette table, the man asks, " What do you think I should bet?" The frog replies, "Ribbit, $3000, black 6." Now, this is a million-to-one shot to win, but after the golf game, the man figures what the heck. Boom! Tons of cash comes sliding back across them table.
The man takes his winnings and buys the best room in the hotel. He sits the frog down and says, "Frog, I don't know how to repay you. You've won me all this money and I am forever grateful." The frog replies, "Ribbit, Kiss Me."
He figures why not, since after all the frog did for him he deserves it. With a kiss, the frog turns into a gorgeous 15-year-old girl.
"And that, your honour, is how the girl ended up in my room."
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

"Louis Boyd" <boyd DeleteThis @apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fcf78n$rdn$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

> If Alex didn't like the life he had he had the option of just sinking his
> beak into Irene P.'s hand and refusing to play her games.

He bonded to Dr.Pepperberg, he loved her, and propably
could not hurt her even if he wanted to. She no doubt loved
him too but he was also a reaserch subject to her.

This film illustrates what I am talking about. Poor little
plucker Alex tells her six times that he's got enough but
she persists at him, forcing him, even with body contact,
as she nears a big tray towards his leg in order to elicit
a response from him.

No wonder he died pre-maturely.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6KvPN_Wt8I

M.J.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

I noticed one glaring contradiction in this article. In one place it
identifies "extroversion" as a type of emotional restriction that
increases the risk of cancer and elsewhere it identifies "isolative"
behavior as the same thing, suggesting the fudging of results to meet
a predetermined conclusion.


On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:07:11 -0700,
"Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory@HotMail.Com"
<Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.RemoveThis@HotMail.Com>
wrote:

>HOWEDY M.J.,
>
>On Sep 14, 2:14 am, "M.J." <M....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>> Have him worked to death by your research? > 8-12 hours a day,
>> every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to find out where the
>> limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder Alex died so young.
>
>Could be, M.J. The scientific evidence well documents that liklihood
><{}: ~ ( >
>
>> Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!
>
>Not likely, M.J. They're SCIENTISTS!:
>
>Subject: R.P.D.B. Syndrome
>
>http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
>http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
>
>UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES
>IN RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD
>TO INFLATED SELF-ASSESSMENTS
>
>Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
>scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
>their best performance and ability. Although their test
>scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
>themselves to be in the 62nd.
>
>- Never attribute to malice that which
>can be adequately explained by stupidity.
>
>- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
>indistinguishable from malice.
>
>- Insufficiently advanced malice is
>indistinguishable from incompetence.
>
> ------------------------
>
> SEE?
>
> R.I.P. Alex <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> Bird Brain Dies After Years of Research
>>
>> WALTHAM, Mass. (AP) - Alex, a parrot that could count to six, identify
>> colors and even express frustration with repetitive scientific trials, has
>> died after 30 years of helping researchers better understand the avian
>> brain.
>>
>> The cause of Alex's death was unknown. The African grey parrot's
>> average life span is 50 years, Brandeis University scientist Irene
>> Pepperberg said. Alex was discovered dead in his cage Friday, she
>> said, but she waited to release the news until this week so grieving
>> researchers could get over the shock and talk about it.
>>
>> "It's devastating to lose an individual you've worked with pretty much
>> every day for 30 years," Pepperberg told The Boston Globe. "Someone
>> was working with him eight to 12 hours every day of his life."
>>
>> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZeZSFfWilDZgoL8xPOU3KbQO2_g
>>
>> http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=p...
>
>Ahhh, SCHEDULING and CLICKER TRAINING!
>
>THAT MAKES DOGS GO INSANE!
>
>Clicker training increases anXXXIHOWESNESS to dangerHOWES
>levels where seizures, aggression and obsessive compulsive behaviors
>like self mutilation occure <{}: ~ ( >
>
>The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy,
>Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard
>*(http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard) ALWAYS
>recommends BREAKING the habituation of SCHEDULES and NEVER
>offering and witholding bribes and giving physical REWARDS for
>behaviors
>on accHOWENTA you can END UP DEAD over it:
>
> Death Producing Ulcers:
> "Emotional Influences On Health & Behavior"
>
> Dr. George Von Hilsheimer
>
>Illness is directly related to depression and lack of
>adjustment, particularly to a new environment (Parens,
>McConville & Kaplan, 1966).
>
>A WIDE RANGE of PSYCHOSOMATIC or CORTICOVISCERAL
>DIS-EASES was surveyed by Wittkower (1965) to demonstrate
>the enormous importance of emotional factors in general health.
>
>Interview findings of emotional material (recently experienced
>hopelessness) pryor to biological examinations correctly identified
>11 out of 19 with cervical cancer, and 25 of 32 who were cancer
>free even though psychological tests failed to discriminate these
>groups (Schmale & Iker, 1966)
>
>150 lung cancer patients showed significantly constricted
>expression of emotions. The had fewer childhood behavior
>problems, and lower neuroticism score than their cancer
>free controls. Heavy cigarette smokers who DO NOT
>INHALE are more apt to have LUNG CANCER. They, too,
>show LOWER neuroticism scores.
>
>Among heavy cigarette smokers poor emotional
>expression is as highly related to cancer as urban
>residence and is more important than a chronic cough
>or an air polluted environment (Kissen, 1966).
>
>A ten year observation of all the women who developed
>cancer in an isolated pupulation of 2,550 showed that
>they tended to be unstable or sub stable personalities
>characterized by melancholy and extraversion, especially
>marked with those of an undecided body build (Hagll,
>1966). Personality dynamics effect both the development
>of cancer and it's SITE. Cancer may result from what
>appears to be a failure to grow--somatically, behaviorally
>and psychologically (Grinker, 1966).
>
>In 109 cases leukemia and lymphoma were associated
>with a number of losses or separations and with feelings
>of sadness, anxiety, anger or hopelessness.The PRIMARY
>FACTOR seems to be the shame and hopelessness of
>running out of psychological resources (Green, 1966).
>Cervical cancer patients are less emotionally responsive,
>more isolative, and less frequently diagnosed as having
>clinical neuroses than cancer free patients.
>
>There is NO CLEAR DIFFERENCE in their FEELINGS
>and ATTITUDES toward coitus (Rotkin, Qunk, &
>Couchman, 1965).
>
>Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of behaviorally
>induced DIS-EASE in animals CONFIRMING and EXTENDING
>the DATA on PEOPLE. Behaviorally induced DIS-EASES tend
>to fall into two groups;
>
>(1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE HYSTERICAL
>SEIZURES and FORMS of AGGRESSION as well as
>collective panic and epilepsies;
>
>(2) organic modifications, including functional
>difficulties and lesions affecting gastro intestinal,
>cardio vascular, respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin,
>urinary, and neuro muscular systems.
>
>It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
>to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE
>of the standard six hour school day that I have
>been able to detect in research is that Sawrey
>and Weisz quite by accident found that six hours
>on and six hour off of "EXECUTIVE BEHAVIOR"
>in monkeys was the ONLY TIME STRUCTURE
>that INDUCED DEATH PRODUCING ULCERS.
>
> -----------------
>
> SEE?
>
>"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
>-Friedrich Schiller.
>
>"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain."
>
>INDEEDY.
>
>AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
>
> In Love And Light,
> I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
> Jerry Howe,
> The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
> A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
> G-R-A-N-D
> Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey,
> SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
>
> HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
>
>Sincerely,
>Jerry Howe,
>Director of Research,
>Human And Animal Behavior
>Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
>BIOSOUND Scientific,
>Director of Training,
>Wits' End Dog Training
>1611 24th St
>Orlando, FL 32805
>Phone: 1-407-425-5092
>E-mails:
>Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory@HotMail.Com
>
>Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory@HotMail.Com
>
>TheAmazingPuppyWizard@Mail.Com
>
>http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death?