Parrot worked to death?

Can a parrot be overworked? If birds don't like what is happening they just
don't cooperate.
We try to teach them to talk, and they just sit there ignoring us. Then they
suddenly say something we haven't even tried to teach them, but which they
have heard. They also put words together and make a sensible phrase out of
them.

And a mistreated parrot will bite!
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

"Grizzly" <NoOne.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:xYVHi.38597$G23.19459@newsreading01.news.tds.net...

>Perhaps you should take note that the group you are posting to is
>rec.equestrian.. this should tell you that it is a horsemans' newsgroup,
>and for the most part birds are inconsequential here as far as most
>conversations go

The reason I have included rec.equestrian was because
of Barbarro, another animal death that attracted much
public attention.

>The bird is dead..yada yada yada...get a life hey!

Personally, I hope Brandeis Univ. preserves Alexes
DNA to have him cloned one day.

M.J.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

"max" <betatron RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13emjp35cthgdc@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <zDHGi.26846$eY.6692@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
> "M.J." <M.J. RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll repeat once more!
>>
>> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>>
>> Have him worked to death by your research?
>> 8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to
>> find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder
>> Alex died so young.
>
> What you are describing is a death due to prolonged mental stress. fine.
>
> Typically, when an animal, human or otherwise, is under chronic mental
> stress, we observe manifestations selected from several dimensions of
> measurable behavior and condition. A trivial and incomplete list might
> include significant weight change, diet selection change, blood chemistry
> changes, sleep disorders, hair (or feather) pulling, self mutilation,
> violence, copraphagy etc.
>
> Given that Alex was, in fact, one of -- quite possibly _the_ -- most
> studied
> parrot in all of history, one might reasonably expect to have seen
> evidence
> of some sort of stress disorders.
>
> Where is your evidence of such stress? I've seen the same films as
> everyone
> else of Alex (some presented by Dr. Pepperberg herself, in fact) and i've
> never seen as much as the hint of a scintilla of evidence of any
> stress-related pathology, mental or physical, in the bird.
>
> So what is your secret evidence?
>
>
> Grueling mental exercise, my aunt fannie.


Let's not forget that Alex was a plucker!!

Itself this doesn't prove much but it points to him being potentially
very stressed. Reasons for plucking are not well understood, some
attribute this behaviour to stress, sexual frustration, others to skin
problems, etc.

M.J.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> "max" <betat... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:13emjp35cthgdc@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> > In article <zDHGi.26846$eY.6...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
> > "M.J." <M... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'll repeat once more!
>
> >> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>
> >> Have him worked to death by your research?
> >> 8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to
> >> find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder
> >> Alex died so young.
>
> > What you are describing is a death due to prolonged mental stress. fine.
>
> > Typically, when an animal, human or otherwise, is under chronic mental
> > stress, we observe manifestations selected from several dimensions of
> > measurable behavior and condition. A trivial and incomplete list might
> > include significant weight change, diet selection change, blood chemistry
> > changes, sleep disorders, hair (or feather) pulling, self mutilation,
> > violence, copraphagy etc.
>
> > Given that Alex was, in fact, one of -- quite possibly _the_ -- most
> > studied
> > parrot in all of history, one might reasonably expect to have seen
> > evidence
> > of some sort of stress disorders.
>
> > Where is your evidence of such stress? I've seen the same films as
> > everyone
> > else of Alex (some presented by Dr. Pepperberg herself, in fact) and i've
> > never seen as much as the hint of a scintilla of evidence of any
> > stress-related pathology, mental or physical, in the bird.
>
> > So what is your secret evidence?
>
> > Grueling mental exercise, my aunt fannie.
>
> Let's not forget that Alex was a plucker!!
>
> Itself this doesn't prove much but it points to him being potentially
> very stressed. Reasons for plucking are not well understood, some
> attribute this behaviour to stress, sexual frustration, others to skin
> problems, etc.
>
> M.J.

Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
periods on business.
He had stopped plucking years ago.
In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
Grey parrot once it has matured.
I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
random from a pet shop
but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
tell his true age.
You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.

Steve n Misty
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

"Steve" <sstevelp.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1190383100.352044.85890@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Let's not forget that Alex was a plucker!!
>>
>> Itself this doesn't prove much but it points to him being potentially
>> very stressed. Reasons for plucking are not well understood, some
>> attribute this behaviour to stress, sexual frustration, others to skin
>> problems, etc.
>>
>> M.J.
>
> Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
> periods on business.
> He had stopped plucking years ago.

I don't know, have read that a few years ago he
was still plucking.


> In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
> One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
> Grey parrot once it has matured.
> I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
> random from a pet shop
> but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
> tell his true age.
> You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.


Up to around 2 years of age it's possible for a somewhat experienced
person to distinguish if the bird is young. He might have been older,
than 1 yr when bought, but probably not by much.

It is not out of the question though that he might have been bought
an older bird (?). Irene was no expert then I suppose.

Wildcaught? I don't think so, very unlikely, as these are not
easy to tame, even if young. But on the other hand they are
supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.

M.J.



>
> Steve n Misty
>
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

HOWEDY jfma,

<jfma.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:agkne3turom9io0714e7d97ge5e401heru@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:41:35 GMT, "M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:08HGi.26844$eY.22896@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>>>Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to death
>>>is just that a hypothesis, but since no cause of death has been
>>>identified it is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.
>>> After all, Alex was part of an ongoing mental experiment to
>>>test the limits of avian intelligence. The experiment ended
>>>abruptly with an unexplained, premature death of the bird.
>>>
>>> Please do not forget, this is exactly what happened from
>>> a scientific perspective. The African Grey subject among
>>> many other things learned to count to six, or seven.
>
>>I'll repeat once more!
>
> You can repeat it until the cows come
> home but that doesn't make it true

No. The TRUTH is SELF-EVIDENT.

> and they are probably not reading this group,

That's IRRELEVENT. YOU are readin it <{}: ~ ) >

> so your rants are not being heard.

Naaaah? Of curse you're HEARING it but you
AIN'T BUYIN IT on accHOWENTA you're
a self important ignorameHOWES <{}: ~ ( >

> You are just screaming into a full gale.

And you're blowin smoke up HOWER arses.

>>Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>
> Rant on if you need to clear your mind.

Rant? Naaah. M.J. is EXXXPOSING the "researchers"
and you're DEFENDING them on accHOWENTA you're
a ignorameHOWES <{}: ~ ( >

>>Have him worked to death by your research?
>
> Rant some more if it will help.

DENY IT some more if you wish <{}: ~ ) >

>> 8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise,
>> just to find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist!
>
> We do the same thing with our children

INDEEDY!

THAT'S THE POINT you freakin blowhard.

> and our mentallychallenged

Those "MENTALLY CHALLENGED" WOULDN'T BE
"mentally challenged" if we didn't ABUSE them <{}: ~ ( >

> in school but that's somehow different.

NO. IT'S THE SAME SAME SAME SAME <{}: ~ ( >

A DOG Is A DOG;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A GOAT Is A GOAT;
As A Ferett Is A Ferett;
As A Monkey Is A Monkey;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

>> No wonder Alex died so young.
>
> There are humans that die young too from things that have gone
> un-noticed for years too but that is, somehow, different to you.

Oh, well THANK YOU for acknowledging the PROBLEM <{}: ~ ) >

HOWEver, it's much more than WORK. It's the KINDS of "work"
he was forced to do and the kinds of anXXXIHOWESNESS relief
mechanisims he was ABLE to indulge in that CAUSE STRESS
INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
Syndrome <{}: ~ ( >

Force / bribe / avoidance / clicker raining represents a major
health crisis for humans and critters; those are the primary
causes of HYPERACTIVITY, AGGRESSION and "unprovoked"
ATTACKS on humans, second ONLY to surgical sexual
mutilations which eviscrates their MATERNAL / PATERNAL
INSTINCTS to NOT ATTACK other innocent defenseless dumb
critters or HARM CHILDREN.

Almost everything we are taught about animal behavior is
incorrect from the critter's point of view as THEY understand
Natural Law.

Our typical forced control / bribe / avoidance / punishment
approaches to animal AND child behavior violates Natural
Law and challenges critter's AND children's survival instincts
and results in animosity, aggression, shyness, DIS-EASE and
"unwarranted" attacks on family members, and the deaths of
millions of critters and the criminalization and incarceration
of HOWER youths <{}: ~ ( >

> Maybe they will come up with just why he died after all
> of the tests are in but you want to rant on about facts that
> are not in evidence to push some political agenda you might
> have.

And you DENY the FACTS to support the RESEARCHERS
'who AIN'T LISTENTING anyHOWE' to compensate for your
own fragile defective ego, weak fearful mind and colossal
inferiority complexes <{}: ~ ( >

> You probably won't be satisfied even then because
> you have an axe to grind and accuse the labs and
> whoever else is involved in a cover up to hide the truth.

Naaah? Perhaps you're sufferin from SHAME FEAR an GUILT?

HOWE COME would "behavioral researchers" want to
"COVER UP to HIDE the TRUTH"? Oh, PERHAPS it's
on accHOWENTA they'd LOSE their RESEARCH FUNDING.

>>Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!

INDEEDY <{}: ~ ( >

> No, you just want to justify your preconceptions and
> your personal views by taking advantage of any problem
> that arises from any animal research.

And you're nuthin but a ignorameHOWES <{}: ~ ( >

> James F. Mayer
> President
> J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control
> E-Mail jfma.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com
> Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.

BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA!

Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
E-mails:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.DeleteThis@HotMail.Com

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.DeleteThis@HotMail.Com

TheAmazingPuppyWizard.DeleteThis@Mail.Com

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller.

"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain."

INDEEDY.

AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!

In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey,
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >

http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J. DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Steve" <sstevelp DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1190383100.352044.85890@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Let's not forget that Alex was a plucker!!
>>>
>>> Itself this doesn't prove much but it points to him being potentially
>>> very stressed. Reasons for plucking are not well understood, some
>>> attribute this behaviour to stress, sexual frustration, others to skin
>>> problems, etc.
>>>
>>> M.J.
>>
>> Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
>> periods on business.
>> He had stopped plucking years ago.
>
>I don't know, have read that a few years ago he
>was still plucking.
>
>
>> In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
>> One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
>> Grey parrot once it has matured.
>> I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
>> random from a pet shop
>> but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
>> tell his true age.
>> You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.
>
>
>Up to around 2 years of age it's possible for a somewhat experienced
>person to distinguish if the bird is young.

You've got to be experienced to se a change in eye color?

> He might have been older,
>than 1 yr when bought, but probably not by much.
>
>It is not out of the question though that he might have been bought
>an older bird (?). Irene was no expert then I suppose.
>
>Wildcaught? I don't think so, very unlikely, as these are not
>easy to tame, even if young.

and you know this how?

> But on the other hand they are
>supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
> and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
>are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.
>
BTW it has been speculated t Alex might have succumbed to
Aspergillosis, a fungal infection of the lungs that he had battled in
the past.

>M.J.
>
>
>
>>
>> Steve n Misty
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:00:49 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none DeleteThis @spam.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:04:18 +0100, <xpenenyx DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J. DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Steve" <sstevelp DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1190383100.352044.85890@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Let's not forget that Alex was a plucker!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Itself this doesn't prove much but it points to him being potentially
>>>>> very stressed. Reasons for plucking are not well understood, some
>>>>> attribute this behaviour to stress, sexual frustration, others to skin
>>>>> problems, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> M.J.
>>>>
>>>> Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
>>>> periods on business.
>>>> He had stopped plucking years ago.
>>>
>>> I don't know, have read that a few years ago he
>>> was still plucking.
>>>
>>>
>>>> In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
>>>> One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
>>>> Grey parrot once it has matured.
>>>> I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
>>>> random from a pet shop
>>>> but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
>>>> tell his true age.
>>>> You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.
>>>
>>>
>>> Up to around 2 years of age it's possible for a somewhat experienced
>>> person to distinguish if the bird is young.
>>
>> You've got to be experienced to se a change in eye color?
>
>You've got to be experienced to know that's the change to look for.

The information is readily available for anyone that isn't to lazy to
too no you don't
>
>>> He might have been older,
>>> than 1 yr when bought, but probably not by much.
>>>
>>> It is not out of the question though that he might have been bought
>>> an older bird (?). Irene was no expert then I suppose.
>>>
>>> Wildcaught? I don't think so, very unlikely, as these are not
>>> easy to tame, even if young.
>>
>> and you know this how?
>
>Maybe he's tried it?

I doubt it but let's say he did. How many?
>
>>> But on the other hand they are
>>> supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
>>> and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
>>> are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.
>>>
>> BTW it has been speculated t Alex might have succumbed to
>> Aspergillosis, a fungal infection of the lungs that he had battled in
>> the past.
>
>So you're using speculation too?

Speculation with fact behind it.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On 22 Sep 2007, said the following in
news:o7t9f3tg50nm21g91p7179hiavgev0o742@4ax.com.

> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> But on the other hand they are
>>supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
>> and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
>>are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.
>>
> BTW it has been speculated t Alex might have succumbed to
> Aspergillosis, a fungal infection of the lungs that he had battled in
> the past.

Finally! Some speculation that is related to the available facts.

--
Regards,
Dann

blogging at http://web.newsguy.com/dainbramage/blog.htm

Freedom works; each and every time it is tried.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:04:18 +0100, <xpenenyx.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:05:58 GMT, "M.J." <M.J..TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Steve" <sstevelp.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1190383100.352044.85890@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sep 20, 11:14 am, "M.J." <M....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Let's not forget that Alex was a plucker!!
>>>>
>>>> Itself this doesn't prove much but it points to him being potentially
>>>> very stressed. Reasons for plucking are not well understood, some
>>>> attribute this behaviour to stress, sexual frustration, others to skin
>>>> problems, etc.
>>>>
>>>> M.J.
>>>
>>> Alex started plucking when Dr Pepperberg had to leave him for extended
>>> periods on business.
>>> He had stopped plucking years ago.
>>
>> I don't know, have read that a few years ago he
>> was still plucking.
>>
>>
>>> In all he was a well loved and well cared for parrot.
>>> One thing to bare in mind is that it is very hard to tell the age of a
>>> Grey parrot once it has matured.
>>> I know Dr Pepperberg has said he was a one year when she bought him at
>>> random from a pet shop
>>> but if in fact he had been wild caught there would be no easy way to
>>> tell his true age.
>>> You can't just saw them in half and count the rings.
>>
>>
>> Up to around 2 years of age it's possible for a somewhat experienced
>> person to distinguish if the bird is young.
>
> You've got to be experienced to se a change in eye color?

You've got to be experienced to know that's the change to look for.

>> He might have been older,
>> than 1 yr when bought, but probably not by much.
>>
>> It is not out of the question though that he might have been bought
>> an older bird (?). Irene was no expert then I suppose.
>>
>> Wildcaught? I don't think so, very unlikely, as these are not
>> easy to tame, even if young.
>
> and you know this how?

Maybe he's tried it?

>> But on the other hand they are
>> supposedly smarter than handfed ones. Alex seemed very smart,
>> and his companions Griffin, and the other, I forget his/her name,
>> are not nearly as talented as Alex was. Intriguing question.
>>
> BTW it has been speculated t Alex might have succumbed to
> Aspergillosis, a fungal infection of the lungs that he had battled in
> the past.

So you're using speculation too?

--
This message has been brought to you by solar and wind power. Who needs the national grid?
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Why are there more white people killed in avalanches than blacks?
The blacks are easier to find in the snow.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

What's with all the emphasis? Do you get a horse voice when talking?


On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:37:22 +0100, <DelusionalDimensionsRecoveryDDR.TakeThisOut@i-love-dogs.com> wrote:

> HOWEDY jfma,
>
> <jfma.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:agkne3turom9io0714e7d97ge5e401heru@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:41:35 GMT, "M.J." <M.J..TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "M.J." <M.J..TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:08HGi.26844$eY.22896@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>>> Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to death
>>>> is just that a hypothesis, but since no cause of death has been
>>>> identified it is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.
>>>> After all, Alex was part of an ongoing mental experiment to
>>>> test the limits of avian intelligence. The experiment ended
>>>> abruptly with an unexplained, premature death of the bird.
>>>>
>>>> Please do not forget, this is exactly what happened from
>>>> a scientific perspective. The African Grey subject among
>>>> many other things learned to count to six, or seven.
>>
>>> I'll repeat once more!
>>
>> You can repeat it until the cows come
>> home but that doesn't make it true
>
> No. The TRUTH is SELF-EVIDENT.
>
>> and they are probably not reading this group,
>
> That's IRRELEVENT. YOU are readin it <{}: ~ ) >
>
>> so your rants are not being heard.
>
> Naaaah? Of curse you're HEARING it but you
> AIN'T BUYIN IT on accHOWENTA you're
> a self important ignorameHOWES <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> You are just screaming into a full gale.
>
> And you're blowin smoke up HOWER arses.
>
>>> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>>
>> Rant on if you need to clear your mind.
>
> Rant? Naaah. M.J. is EXXXPOSING the "researchers"
> and you're DEFENDING them on accHOWENTA you're
> a ignorameHOWES <{}: ~ ( >
>
>>> Have him worked to death by your research?
>>
>> Rant some more if it will help.
>
> DENY IT some more if you wish <{}: ~ ) >
>
>>> 8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise,
>>> just to find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist!
>>
>> We do the same thing with our children
>
> INDEEDY!
>
> THAT'S THE POINT you freakin blowhard.
>
>> and our mentallychallenged
>
> Those "MENTALLY CHALLENGED" WOULDN'T BE
> "mentally challenged" if we didn't ABUSE them <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> in school but that's somehow different.
>
> NO. IT'S THE SAME SAME SAME SAME <{}: ~ ( >
>
> A DOG Is A DOG;
> As A KAT Is A KAT;
> As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
> As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
> As A GOAT Is A GOAT;
> As A Ferett Is A Ferett;
> As A Monkey Is A Monkey;
> As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
> As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
> As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
>
> ALL Critters Only Respond In
> PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
> INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
> To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
> Which We Create For Them.
>
> You GET The Critter You TRAINED
>
> In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
> FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
> SAME SAME SAME SAME,
> For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
>
>>> No wonder Alex died so young.
>>
>> There are humans that die young too from things that have gone
>> un-noticed for years too but that is, somehow, different to you.
>
> Oh, well THANK YOU for acknowledging the PROBLEM <{}: ~ ) >
>
> HOWEver, it's much more than WORK. It's the KINDS of "work"
> he was forced to do and the kinds of anXXXIHOWESNESS relief
> mechanisims he was ABLE to indulge in that CAUSE STRESS
> INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
> Syndrome <{}: ~ ( >
>
> Force / bribe / avoidance / clicker raining represents a major
> health crisis for humans and critters; those are the primary
> causes of HYPERACTIVITY, AGGRESSION and "unprovoked"
> ATTACKS on humans, second ONLY to surgical sexual
> mutilations which eviscrates their MATERNAL / PATERNAL
> INSTINCTS to NOT ATTACK other innocent defenseless dumb
> critters or HARM CHILDREN.
>
> Almost everything we are taught about animal behavior is
> incorrect from the critter's point of view as THEY understand
> Natural Law.
>
> Our typical forced control / bribe / avoidance / punishment
> approaches to animal AND child behavior violates Natural
> Law and challenges critter's AND children's survival instincts
> and results in animosity, aggression, shyness, DIS-EASE and
> "unwarranted" attacks on family members, and the deaths of
> millions of critters and the criminalization and incarceration
> of HOWER youths <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> Maybe they will come up with just why he died after all
>> of the tests are in but you want to rant on about facts that
>> are not in evidence to push some political agenda you might
>> have.
>
> And you DENY the FACTS to support the RESEARCHERS
> 'who AIN'T LISTENTING anyHOWE' to compensate for your
> own fragile defective ego, weak fearful mind and colossal
> inferiority complexes <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> You probably won't be satisfied even then because
>> you have an axe to grind and accuse the labs and
>> whoever else is involved in a cover up to hide the truth.
>
> Naaah? Perhaps you're sufferin from SHAME FEAR an GUILT?
>
> HOWE COME would "behavioral researchers" want to
> "COVER UP to HIDE the TRUTH"? Oh, PERHAPS it's
> on accHOWENTA they'd LOSE their RESEARCH FUNDING.
>
>>> Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!
>
> INDEEDY <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> No, you just want to justify your preconceptions and
>> your personal views by taking advantage of any problem
>> that arises from any animal research.
>
> And you're nuthin but a ignorameHOWES <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> James F. Mayer
>> President
>> J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control
>> E-Mail jfma.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com
>> Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
>> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
> BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jerry Howe,
> Director of Research,
> Human And Animal Behavior
> Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
> BIOSOUND Scientific,
> Director of Training,
> Wits' End Dog Training
> 1611 24th St
> Orlando, FL 32805
> Phone: 1-407-425-5092
> E-mails:
> Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.TakeThisOut@HotMail.Com
>
> Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.TakeThisOut@HotMail.Com
>
> TheAmazingPuppyWizard.TakeThisOut@Mail.Com
>
> "Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
> -Friedrich Schiller.
>
> "Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain."
>
> INDEEDY.
>
> AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
>
> In Love And Light,
> I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
> Jerry Howe,
> The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
> A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
> G-R-A-N-D
> Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey,
> SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
>
> HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
>
> http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
>
>



--
This message has been brought to you by solar and wind power. Who needs the national grid?
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I take loads of laxatives when the pollen count rises. It stops me sneezing - I daren't.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

<jfma RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:isgbf3h0g6nqun4kugikqfk79vaodp92t1@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:22:26 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none RemoveThis @spam.com>
> wrote:

>>> Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter
>>> every day?
>>
>>Not 100 times a day.
>
>
> Every action is an exercise in problem solving.
> Finding food, even if it is handed to you in a dish is an exercise
> in problem solving.


Alex could have sat in front of a bowl and solved problems
of this type i.e. whether to pick a nut or a cracker all day long
and it would have had no impact on him as this type of problem
solving has nothing to do with is complex abstract thinking.

The type of exercises he was given in the lab were taxing his
brain like no other parrots' in the wild. Can't you realize that
simple fact? Do you have some mental disability that prevents
you from differentiating such basics?

M.J.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:22:26 +0100, "Peter Hucker" <none RemoveThis @spam.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:04:09 +0100, <jfma RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:02:29 GMT, "M.J." <M.J. RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "max" <betatron RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:13emjp35cthgdc@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> In article <zDHGi.26846$eY.6692@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
>>>> "M.J." <M.J. RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'll repeat once more!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have him worked to death by your research?
>>>>> 8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to
>>>>> find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder
>>>>> Alex died so young.
>>>>
>>>> What you are describing is a death due to prolonged mental stress. fine.
>>>>
>>>> Typically, when an animal, human or otherwise, is under chronic mental
>>>> stress,
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it is not fine, as the type of stress Alex was subjected to
>>> is not comparable to anything else that an animal may encounter
>>> in nature.
>>>
>> Neither is talking in human language.
>
>They do this of their own accord.
>
>>> Usually stress means fear, hunger, uncertainty, noise, many other
>>> environmental factors. A 30 year rigorous regiment of learning
>>> to think abstractly, admionistered from the earliest age, is a stress
>>> factor different than anything a parrot can encounter and there is
>>> no way to judge how the creature will react to it (that is long term
>>> effect).
>>>
>> Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter
>> every day?
>
>Not 100 times a day.


Every action is an exercise in problem solving.
Finding food, even if it is handed to you in a dish is an exercise
in problem solving.




James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control
E-Mail jfma RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death?