Welcome to PetForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Parrot worked to death?

 
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Parrots Breeding RSS
Next:  Laying Eggs  
Author Message
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:14 am
Post subject: Parrot worked to death?
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
Have him worked to death by your research?
8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to
find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder
Alex died so young.

Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!


Bird Brain Dies After Years of Research

WALTHAM, Mass. (AP) - Alex, a parrot that could count to six, identify
colors and even express frustration with repetitive scientific trials, has
died after 30 years of helping researchers better understand the avian
brain.

The cause of Alex's death was unknown. The African grey parrot's
average life span is 50 years, Brandeis University scientist Irene
Pepperberg said. Alex was discovered dead in his cage Friday, she said, but
she waited to release the news until this week so grieving researchers could
get over the shock and talk about it.

"It's devastating to lose an individual you've worked with pretty much
every day for 30 years," Pepperberg told The Boston Globe. "Someone was
working with him eight to 12 hours every day of his life."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZeZSFfWilDZgoL8xPOU3KbQO2_g

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=pl...20ram.h

 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Human_And_Animal_Behavior

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 17



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:15 am
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>behavior, others (more info?)

HOWEDY M.J.,

On Sep 14, 2:14 am, "M.J." <M....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
> Have him worked to death by your research? > 8-12 hours a day,
> every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to find out where the
> limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder Alex died so young.

Could be, M.J. The scientific evidence well documents that liklihood
<{}: ~ ( >

> Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!

Not likely, M.J. They're SCIENTISTS!:

Subject: R.P.D.B. Syndrome

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES
IN RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD
TO INFLATED SELF-ASSESSMENTS

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd.

- Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.

- Insufficiently advanced malice is
indistinguishable from incompetence.

------------------------

SEE?

R.I.P. Alex <{}: ~ ( >

> Bird Brain Dies After Years of Research
>
> WALTHAM, Mass. (AP) - Alex, a parrot that could count to six, identify
> colors and even express frustration with repetitive scientific trials, has
> died after 30 years of helping researchers better understand the avian
> brain.
>
> The cause of Alex's death was unknown. The African grey parrot's
> average life span is 50 years, Brandeis University scientist Irene
> Pepperberg said. Alex was discovered dead in his cage Friday, she
> said, but she waited to release the news until this week so grieving
> researchers could get over the shock and talk about it.
>
> "It's devastating to lose an individual you've worked with pretty much
> every day for 30 years," Pepperberg told The Boston Globe. "Someone
> was working with him eight to 12 hours every day of his life."
>
> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZeZSFfWilDZgoL8xPOU3KbQO2_g
>
> http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=p...

Ahhh, SCHEDULING and CLICKER TRAINING!

THAT MAKES DOGS GO INSANE!

Clicker training increases anXXXIHOWESNESS to dangerHOWES
levels where seizures, aggression and obsessive compulsive behaviors
like self mutilation occure <{}: ~ ( >

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard
*(http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard) ALWAYS
recommends BREAKING the habituation of SCHEDULES and NEVER
offering and witholding bribes and giving physical REWARDS for
behaviors
on accHOWENTA you can END UP DEAD over it:

Death Producing Ulcers:
"Emotional Influences On Health & Behavior"

Dr. George Von Hilsheimer

Illness is directly related to depression and lack of
adjustment, particularly to a new environment (Parens,
McConville & Kaplan, 1966).

A WIDE RANGE of PSYCHOSOMATIC or CORTICOVISCERAL
DIS-EASES was surveyed by Wittkower (1965) to demonstrate
the enormous importance of emotional factors in general health.

Interview findings of emotional material (recently experienced
hopelessness) pryor to biological examinations correctly identified
11 out of 19 with cervical cancer, and 25 of 32 who were cancer
free even though psychological tests failed to discriminate these
groups (Schmale & Iker, 1966)

150 lung cancer patients showed significantly constricted
expression of emotions. The had fewer childhood behavior
problems, and lower neuroticism score than their cancer
free controls. Heavy cigarette smokers who DO NOT
INHALE are more apt to have LUNG CANCER. They, too,
show LOWER neuroticism scores.

Among heavy cigarette smokers poor emotional
expression is as highly related to cancer as urban
residence and is more important than a chronic cough
or an air polluted environment (Kissen, 1966).

A ten year observation of all the women who developed
cancer in an isolated pupulation of 2,550 showed that
they tended to be unstable or sub stable personalities
characterized by melancholy and extraversion, especially
marked with those of an undecided body build (Hagll,
1966). Personality dynamics effect both the development
of cancer and it's SITE. Cancer may result from what
appears to be a failure to grow--somatically, behaviorally
and psychologically (Grinker, 1966).

In 109 cases leukemia and lymphoma were associated
with a number of losses or separations and with feelings
of sadness, anxiety, anger or hopelessness.The PRIMARY
FACTOR seems to be the shame and hopelessness of
running out of psychological resources (Green, 1966).
Cervical cancer patients are less emotionally responsive,
more isolative, and less frequently diagnosed as having
clinical neuroses than cancer free patients.

There is NO CLEAR DIFFERENCE in their FEELINGS
and ATTITUDES toward coitus (Rotkin, Qunk, &
Couchman, 1965).

Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of behaviorally
induced DIS-EASE in animals CONFIRMING and EXTENDING
the DATA on PEOPLE. Behaviorally induced DIS-EASES tend
to fall into two groups;

(1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE HYSTERICAL
SEIZURES and FORMS of AGGRESSION as well as
collective panic and epilepsies;

(2) organic modifications, including functional
difficulties and lesions affecting gastro intestinal,
cardio vascular, respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin,
urinary, and neuro muscular systems.

It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE
of the standard six hour school day that I have
been able to detect in research is that Sawrey
and Weisz quite by accident found that six hours
on and six hour off of "EXECUTIVE BEHAVIOR"
in monkeys was the ONLY TIME STRUCTURE
that INDUCED DEATH PRODUCING ULCERS.

-----------------

SEE?

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller.

"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain."

INDEEDY.

AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!

In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey,
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >

Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
E-mails:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.TakeThisOut@HotMail.Com

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory.TakeThisOut@HotMail.Com

TheAmazingPuppyWizard.TakeThisOut@Mail.Com

http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/

 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory DeleteThis @HotMail.Com>
wrote in message news:1189753631.295023.52360@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> HOWEDY M.J.,
>
> On Sep 14, 2:14 am, "M.J." <M... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?
>> Have him worked to death by your research? > 8-12 hours a day,
>> every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to find out where the
>> limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder Alex died so young.
>
> Could be, M.J. The scientific evidence well documents that liklihood
> <{}: ~ ( >
>
>> Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!
>
> Not likely, M.J. They're SCIENTISTS!:


If Dr.Irene Pepperberg is not mad she ought to stop,
and seriously re-think what she's doing. to these birds,
before another suffers a pre-mature death.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that such
a rigorous curriculum that she's subjecting the birds to,
must over time be extremely traumatic to the birds and
in particular their brains.

There is no point in letting another parrot perish
for the sake of teaching it to count to seven, or eight,
or some other similar achievement.

Alex, and Dr.Pepperberg's research has shown a lot,
there is no point in streching it too far. Besides she may
get better results following a more leisurely path. Had
Alex lived another 10 or 20 years, he might have
progressed farther.

M.J.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joanne

External


Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 103



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2aCGi.3046$Sd4.308@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> If Dr.Irene Pepperberg is not mad she ought to stop,
> and seriously re-think what she's doing. to these birds,
> before another suffers a pre-mature death.
>
> There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that such
> a rigorous curriculum that she's subjecting the birds to,
> must over time be extremely traumatic to the birds and
> in particular their brains.
>
> There is no point in letting another parrot perish
> for the sake of teaching it to count to seven, or eight,
> or some other similar achievement.
>
> Alex, and Dr.Pepperberg's research has shown a lot,
> there is no point in streching it too far. Besides she may
> get better results following a more leisurely path. Had
> Alex lived another 10 or 20 years, he might have
> progressed farther.
>
> M.J.

What are you basing this tirade upon? The birds are not doing push-ups.
They are thinking. Since when is thinking hazardous to health? I recall
Alex being quite in control of ending sessions. He had the final word about
his limits. Likely, he enjoyed the attention and stimulation. I recall
that his "family" was small and he "tested" lab newcomers to see how much
they understood. His worldwide recognition wasn't because he did bus tours.
His videos were circulated. His life was probably as ordinary as any of our
birds upon which we lavish time, energy and attention.

Sincerely,
Joanne
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dave Bugg

External


Since: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 180



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>equestrian, others (more info?)

Joanne wrote:

> What are you basing this tirade upon? The birds are not doing
> push-ups. They are thinking. Since when is thinking hazardous to
> health? .....Snip

Apparently M.J. has proven beyond all doubt that thinking is hazardous when
attempted by that ilk of animal rights 'experts'.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>behavior, others (more info?)

"Joanne" <Joanne RemoveThis @jobirdnest.com> wrote in message
news:13em0scnemhmb94@corp.supernews.com...

> "M.J." <M.J. RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2aCGi.3046$Sd4.308@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> If Dr.Irene Pepperberg is not mad she ought to stop,
>> and seriously re-think what she's doing. to these birds,
>> before another suffers a pre-mature death.
>>
>> There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that such
>> a rigorous curriculum that she's subjecting the birds to,
>> must over time be extremely traumatic to the birds and
>> in particular their brains.
>>
>> There is no point in letting another parrot perish
>> for the sake of teaching it to count to seven, or eight,
>> or some other similar achievement.
>>
>> Alex, and Dr.Pepperberg's research has shown a lot,
>> there is no point in streching it too far. Besides she may
>> get better results following a more leisurely path. Had
>> Alex lived another 10 or 20 years, he might have
>> progressed farther.
>>
>> M.J.
>
> What are you basing this tirade upon? The birds are not doing push-ups.
> They are thinking.


And thinking means the same thing for a human
brain and a parrot brain, right? Gosh, you lack
imagination, Joanne.

> Since when is thinking hazardous to health?

Yours/humans, or a parrot's?

Have in mind the bird was subjected to rigourous 8-12 hour
training days. Supposedly no vacations, few if any days off.
Just constant training by a whole staff of graduate students etc.

All in hope of testing the limits of avian intelligence!
Well, until an unexplained and pre-mature death at 31.


> I recall Alex being quite in control of ending sessions.

Dr. Peperrberg was recently taking the bird to a more
complex and mentally demanding level of training, i.e. teaching
the bird 'compound words.'

>He had the final word about his limits.

Exactly!!!


> Likely, he enjoyed the attention and stimulation.

Please.

The bird was subject to continuous and prolonged
mental exercise, which, no doubt, traumatized its brain.
Alex'es mental prowess may seem natural to a human
TV viewer, but for the parrot it took years of unusually
elevated brain metabolism to accomplish- read unusually
hard mental labour (!) that most likely caused, or contributed
to the birds demise.

These magnificent creatures evolved to burn thousands
upon thousands of calories with the movement of their
wings ...not continuous neverending straining of their brains!


> I recall that his "family" was small and he "tested" lab newcomers to see
> how much they understood. His worldwide recognition wasn't because he did
> bus tours. His videos were circulated. His life was probably as ordinary
> as any of our birds upon which we lavish time, energy and attention.

Alex'es life was not ordinary!
Please understand this fact?

M.J.


> Sincerely,
> Joanne
>
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X_DGi.68$6p6.34@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Joanne" <Joanne.DeleteThis@jobirdnest.com> wrote in message
> news:13em0scnemhmb94@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> "M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:2aCGi.3046$Sd4.308@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> If Dr.Irene Pepperberg is not mad she ought to stop,
>>> and seriously re-think what she's doing. to these birds,
>>> before another suffers a pre-mature death.
>>>
>>> There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that such
>>> a rigorous curriculum that she's subjecting the birds to,
>>> must over time be extremely traumatic to the birds and
>>> in particular their brains.
>>>
>>> There is no point in letting another parrot perish
>>> for the sake of teaching it to count to seven, or eight,
>>> or some other similar achievement.
>>>
>>> Alex, and Dr.Pepperberg's research has shown a lot,
>>> there is no point in streching it too far. Besides she may
>>> get better results following a more leisurely path. Had
>>> Alex lived another 10 or 20 years, he might have
>>> progressed farther.
>>>
>>> M.J.
>>
>> What are you basing this tirade upon? The birds are not doing push-ups.
>> They are thinking.
>
>
> And thinking means the same thing for a human
> brain and a parrot brain, right? Gosh, you lack
> imagination, Joanne.
>
>> Since when is thinking hazardous to health?
>
> Yours/humans, or a parrot's?
>
> Have in mind the bird was subjected to rigourous 8-12 hour
> training days. Supposedly no vacations, few if any days off.
> Just constant training by a whole staff of graduate students etc.
>
> All in hope of testing the limits of avian intelligence!
> Well, until an unexplained and pre-mature death at 31.
>
>
>> I recall Alex being quite in control of ending sessions.
>
> Dr. Peperrberg was recently taking the bird to a more
> complex and mentally demanding level of training, i.e. teaching
> the bird 'compound words.'


I strongly suspect that recent efforts to take the birds
thinking to a human like level of abstraction ('compound words')
may have dealt Alex a final blow. Complex abstract thinking
is the stuff of most advanced creatures- primates/humans.

Dr.Pepperberg just started to introduce Alex's brain fully to
this new world of more complex human like thinking.

M.J.


>>He had the final word about his limits.
>
> Exactly!!!
>
>
>> Likely, he enjoyed the attention and stimulation.
>
> Please.
>
> The bird was subject to continuous and prolonged
> mental exercise, which, no doubt, traumatized its brain.
> Alex'es mental prowess may seem natural to a human
> TV viewer, but for the parrot it took years of unusually
> elevated brain metabolism to accomplish- read unusually
> hard mental labour (!) that most likely caused, or contributed
> to the birds demise.
>
> These magnificent creatures evolved to burn thousands
> upon thousands of calories with the movement of their
> wings ...not continuous neverending straining of their brains!
>
>
>> I recall that his "family" was small and he "tested" lab newcomers to see
>> how much they understood. His worldwide recognition wasn't because he
>> did bus tours. His videos were circulated. His life was probably as
>> ordinary as any of our birds upon which we lavish time, energy and
>> attention.
>
> Alex'es life was not ordinary!
> Please understand this fact?
>
> M.J.
>
>
>> Sincerely,
>> Joanne
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ocean of Nuance

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Joanne" <Joanne DeleteThis @jobirdnest.com> wrote in message
news:13em6j66hf4c9bd@corp.supernews.com...
|
| "M.J." <M.J. DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:8zEGi.76$6p6.75@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
| > I strongly suspect that recent efforts to take the birds
| > thinking to a human like level of abstraction ('compound words')
| > may have dealt Alex a final blow. Complex abstract thinking
| > is the stuff of most advanced creatures- primates/humans.
| >
| > Dr.Pepperberg just started to introduce Alex's brain fully to
| > this new world of more complex human like thinking.
| >
| > M.J.
|
| If you are right, wouldn't a necropsy have determined some abnormal brain
| tissue physiology? You can be sure this bird didn't get the slam-bam type
| of necropsy most pets and breeders do.
|
| I hope they preserved his brain tissue (bet they did) for future, more
| advanced testing as it becomes available.
|
| I wonder if they would have admitted to something as simple as a virus or
an
| infection brought in by an assistant's lack of hygiene. (You know me -
Queen
| of "the germs are out to get our darlings" theory!)

Can I just ask a question here?

How unheard of is a bird like this dying at 31?

I have a scientific colleague who had some type of bird like this (different
species) for several years. One year it died suddenly and I'm guessing it
was not wildly far from 31 based on what I know of the history. Jaws didn't
drop.

sharon
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
max

External


Since: Mar 16, 2005
Posts: 3



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <IXGGi.3106$Sd4.2117@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to death
> is just that a hypothesis, but since no cause of death has been
> identified it is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.

No, it is not "as good as anything else".

Well, maybe it is. Let's apply your standards of plausibility:


I think you, <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com>, snuck into the lab and killed Alex.


..max
did you suffocate him or break his neck?
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joanne

External


Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 103



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"M.J." <M.J..RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8zEGi.76$6p6.75@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> I strongly suspect that recent efforts to take the birds
> thinking to a human like level of abstraction ('compound words')
> may have dealt Alex a final blow. Complex abstract thinking
> is the stuff of most advanced creatures- primates/humans.
>
> Dr.Pepperberg just started to introduce Alex's brain fully to
> this new world of more complex human like thinking.
>
> M.J.

If you are right, wouldn't a necropsy have determined some abnormal brain
tissue physiology? You can be sure this bird didn't get the slam-bam type
of necropsy most pets and breeders do.

I hope they preserved his brain tissue (bet they did) for future, more
advanced testing as it becomes available.

I wonder if they would have admitted to something as simple as a virus or an
infection brought in by an assistant's lack of hygiene. (You know me - Queen
of "the germs are out to get our darlings" theory!)

--
Sincerely,
Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

http://www.jobird.com
Wonders of Western Washington Video collection:
http://www.jobird.com/private/wondersindex.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Ocean of Nuance" <lizzardwomanRMOVE DeleteThis @nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5l0koqF5p8igU1@mid.individual.net...

> Can I just ask a question here?
>
> How unheard of is a bird like this dying at 31?
>
> I have a scientific colleague who had some type of bird like this
> (different
> species) for several years. One year it died suddenly and I'm guessing it
> was not wildly far from 31 based on what I know of the history. Jaws
> didn't
> drop.


And a bunch of top national avian specialists could not identify
the of the death? I don't think so!

Alex's death is troubling, in a sense that no cause of death has been
identified, therefore all the speculation.

M.J.


>
> sharon
>
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joanne

External


Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 103



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Ocean of Nuance" <lizzardwomanRMOVE.TakeThisOut@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
> Can I just ask a question here?
>
> How unheard of is a bird like this dying at 31?
>
> I have a scientific colleague who had some type of bird like this
> (different
> species) for several years. One year it died suddenly and I'm guessing it
> was not wildly far from 31 based on what I know of the history. Jaws
> didn't
> drop.
>
> sharon


It's a good point.

If 50 (I always believed the expectant age of a CAG was more comparable to a
human) is a normal full life for a CAG then 31 would compare to a human,
whose expected life is about 75, passing at age 47. It seems to me that
something would show up on a medical autopsy to explain that premature of a
death in a human. Why not in a bird?

31 is to 50 (50 may be questionable unless they are averaging pet birds
that die of neglect very early)
as
47 is to 75.

--
Sincerely,
Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

http://www.jobird.com
Wonders of Western Washington Video collection:
http://www.jobird.com/private/wondersindex.htm



Any medical people have any thoughts?
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Joanne" <Joanne.DeleteThis@jobirdnest.com> wrote in message
news:13em6j66hf4c9bd@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8zEGi.76$6p6.75@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>> I strongly suspect that recent efforts to take the birds
>> thinking to a human like level of abstraction ('compound words')
>> may have dealt Alex a final blow. Complex abstract thinking
>> is the stuff of most advanced creatures- primates/humans.
>>
>> Dr.Pepperberg just started to introduce Alex's brain fully to
>> this new world of more complex human like thinking.
>>
>> M.J.
>
> If you are right, wouldn't a necropsy have determined some abnormal brain
> tissue physiology? You can be sure this bird didn't get the slam-bam type
> of necropsy most pets and breeders do.

Who knows?

Even if, he might not have displayed any obvious pathology
read: in an anatomical sense there might have been nothing
wrong, yet on a functional level his brain function might have
been seriously undermined in many ways.

For, example, a regular human brain MRI shows anatomy,
say a tumor, lesion, etc, (necropsy would show that), but it
takes a live PET scan to show if the organ is functioning
properly.

I don't think Alex was given such scans, and even if there
would be few references to compare it to. Who knows what
a properly functioning parrot brain PET scan image looks like?


> I hope they preserved his brain tissue (bet they did) for future, more
> advanced testing as it becomes available.

I hope too.


> I wonder if they would have admitted to something as simple as a virus or
> an infection brought in by an assistant's lack of hygiene. (You know me -
> Queen of "the germs are out to get our darlings" theory!)

I think they would admit to it if that was the case.

I sincerely think that Alexes brain over time might
have reached a functional/metabolic limit to the amount
of intense processing that it was capable of and this
caused or contributed in some way to his early demise.

M.J.


> --
> Sincerely,
> Joanne
>
> If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
>
> http://www.jobird.com
> Wonders of Western Washington Video collection:
> http://www.jobird.com/private/wondersindex.htm
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ocean of Nuance

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"M.J." <M.J. RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FGGGi.3104$Sd4.2816@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
| "Ocean of Nuance" <lizzardwomanRMOVE RemoveThis @nc.rr.com> wrote in message
| news:5l0koqF5p8igU1@mid.individual.net...
|
| > Can I just ask a question here?
| >
| > How unheard of is a bird like this dying at 31?
| >
| > I have a scientific colleague who had some type of bird like this
| > (different
| > species) for several years. One year it died suddenly and I'm guessing
it
| > was not wildly far from 31 based on what I know of the history. Jaws
| > didn't
| > drop.
|
|
| And a bunch of top national avian specialists could not identify
| the of the death? I don't think so!
|
| Alex's death is troubling, in a sense that no cause of death has been
| identified, therefore all the speculation.

Is it not too early to expect a cause of death announcement?

sharon

--
"Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you"

-- C. Martin
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
M.J.

External


Since: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: Parrot worked to death? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"M.J." <M.J..DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08HGi.26844$eY.22896@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...

>Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to death
>is just that a hypothesis, but since no cause of death has been
>identified it is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.
> After all, Alex was part of an ongoing mental experiment to
>test the limits of avian intelligence. The experiment ended
>abruptly with an unexplained, premature death of the bird.
>
> Please do not forget, this is exactly what happened from
> a scientific perspective. The African Grey subject among
> many other things learned to count to six, or seven.


I'll repeat once more!

Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?

Have him worked to death by your research?
8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to
find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist! No wonder
Alex died so young.

Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!

M.J.
 >> Stay informed about: Parrot worked to death? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
FS: New Zealand Parrot - I am selling a Kakariki Parrot. He comes with a large cage. Asking CDN$350, but open to offers. I am returning to school and will not be at home much during the day, so it is a combination of finances as well as the fact that Stevie will be alone at..

Parrot Weight Scale - FYI: New bird weight scale with perch is now available with capacities to 11 lbs / 5000 g. www.davco.bc.ca/petscales.html

If you need to find a home as wonderful as yours for your .. - If you need to find a home as wonderful as yours for your Parrot? I have a Quaker that I've had for a year and he is free to go anywhere in the house he likes(don't worry he's potty trained)And there are no other critters so he's safe there.I love..

Double Yellowhead Amazon Parrot for sale - I have an absolutely gorgeous apx. 1 1/2 yr. Double Yellowhead Amazon parrot for sale. This bird is as pretty as any Double yellowhead you've ever seen in any book. Healthy, fine feather, clipped, starting to talk. $1100. Bring your own cage. George..
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Parrots Breeding All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 1 of 5

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]