Oxygen level and fish varities

John,

Goldfish are incorrectly designated as coldwater fish
because they survive the winters and in many peoples
eyes this makes them coldwater fish, but they are
wrong. No knowledgeable piece of literature has ever
designated a goldfish as a coldwater fish. Coldwater
fish are fish that spend there lives in waters that are
40-60 degrees. In fact, 60 degree water is in the
upper level of their survival range. Goldfish can
survive in 38 degree F. water, but they are more in a
condition of suspended animation than really living.
Coldwater fish systems are fully functional at low
temperatures, so they eat, swimming vigorously and
reproduce at lower temperatures. Goldfish should have
their feedings stopped when temps get down to 55
degrees F (13 degrees C.) and below. Goldfish don't
successfully reproduce until the high 60's, any thing
below 68 degrees F. (20 degrees C.) can end up with a
lot of abnormalities and deformities. Eggs are best
hatched in the low 70 degree range. Personally I keep
my Goldfish cool in the winter having them inside the
house next to a window and on an outside wall to keep
the water temps in the low sixties with no heaters in
the tubs or tanks. During the rest of the year the
fish experience temperatures as high as 85 degrees F.
(about 30 degrees C.), when the summer outside temps
ride the 100 degree mark (37 degrees C)for as long as
a week at a time.

By-the-by, in temps in the low 70's coldwater fish
would be showing signs of distress and would eventually
die because of the temperature.

Your 23 degree C temp is fine for Goldfish.

HTH

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------
marcos wrote:
> "Tom L. La Bron" <tllabron DeleteThis @cimtel.net> wrote in message news:<ch0op6$ag2$1@news.mbo.net>...
>
>>Folks,
>>
>>First of all, I really don't care about coldwater fish
>>for Goldfish and KOI are Warmwater fish.
>>
>>The lowest concentration of oxygen that common Goldfish
>>fish can handle is 2mg/l. Fancy Goldfish usually start
>>showing distress long before commons, Comets,
>>Shubunkins and Wakins. This distress is usually
>>associated with the Swimbladder. Most Fancy Goldfish
>>have a truncated body and this tends to squeeze the
>>swimbladder in to a smaller space which is why,
>>genetically, Fancy Goldfish have a higher incidence of
>>Swimbladder problems.
>>
>>For Fancy Goldfish 4mg/l is about as low as you would
>>want it to go and even then you may loose some fish.
>>With Fancy Goldfish it is imperative to keep the oxygen
>>level in your tank at the maximum which is about 6mg/l.
>> AirStones are very important for Fancy Goldfish for
>>this reason.
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>Tom L.L.
>>----------------------------------------------
>
>
> So L.La Bron, why r goldfish always categorized under coldwater fish
> species then?? At around what temp do u sugggest should be kept for
> fancy goldfish? is 23 degrees C all rite?
> john
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities 

In message <ch0op6$ag2$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
<tllabron.TakeThisOut@cimtel.net> writes
>Folks,
>
>First of all, I really don't care about coldwater fish for Goldfish and
>KOI are Warmwater fish.

Tom, while I appreciate that both species may well survive and be happy
at warmer temperatures, I think the big issue is that both species live
well and long in environments where the winter temperature drops to
levels that would kill fish usually classed as warm water fish very
quickly. In this country goldfish and koi both live long and happily in
outdoor ponds (I'm not sure what the record lifespan for a koi is but I
know it's huge), and the ambient temperature is sometimes below
freezing. If I remember my physics correctly, water is densest at 4
degrees C so there is a bottom band at this temperature whether the
surface is warmer or colder, but this can't be classed as "warm". For me
the key is survival, and the range of temperatures at which gf and koi
will survive is too great for them to be classed simply as warm- (or
cold!) water fish.

OT, at least as far as the original post is concerned, so apologies...

--
sophie
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities 

Sophie,

Surviving in an extreme doesn't designate a fish as to
whether it is cold or warmwater. Living in that
environment is what designates whether the fish is cold
or warmwater.

Just because a Goldfish or KOI can survive in 38 degree
F. water doesn't mean that this is the fish's normal
environment for it normal living processes. Normal
living processes includes eating and reproduction of
which neither occurs at temperatures below 55 degrees,
where as, trout feed and reproduce in waters between
40-60 degrees, their normal living environment.

These are not my designations by the way. These are
the established designations by fish biologist and
aquaculturist.

HTH

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------
sophie wrote:

> In message <ch0op6$ag2$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
> <tllabron.DeleteThis@cimtel.net> writes
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> First of all, I really don't care about coldwater fish for Goldfish
>> and KOI are Warmwater fish.
>
>
> Tom, while I appreciate that both species may well survive and be happy
> at warmer temperatures, I think the big issue is that both species live
> well and long in environments where the winter temperature drops to
> levels that would kill fish usually classed as warm water fish very
> quickly. In this country goldfish and koi both live long and happily in
> outdoor ponds (I'm not sure what the record lifespan for a koi is but I
> know it's huge), and the ambient temperature is sometimes below
> freezing. If I remember my physics correctly, water is densest at 4
> degrees C so there is a bottom band at this temperature whether the
> surface is warmer or colder, but this can't be classed as "warm". For me
> the key is survival, and the range of temperatures at which gf and koi
> will survive is too great for them to be classed simply as warm- (or
> cold!) water fish.
>
> OT, at least as far as the original post is concerned, so apologies...
>
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities 

Just as a note, I fully concur with Tom on his post.
Well written too.
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities 

In message <ch8imu$k7t$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
<tllabron.DeleteThis@cimtel.net> writes
>Sophie,
>
>Surviving in an extreme doesn't designate a fish as to whether it is
>cold or warmwater. Living in that environment is what designates
>whether the fish is cold or warmwater.
>
>Just because a Goldfish or KOI can survive in 38 degree F. water
>doesn't mean that this is the fish's normal environment for it normal
>living processes. Normal living processes includes eating and
>reproduction of which neither occurs at temperatures below 55 degrees,
>where as, trout feed and reproduce in waters between 40-60 degrees,
>their normal living environment.
>
>These are not my designations by the way. These are the established
>designations by fish biologist and aquaculturist.
>
>HTH

it does, and I'm not questioning whether or not goldfish do *better* in
warmer water as it seems to me to be a given that they do; what I was
trying to say was that they aren't warm-water fish in the way that the
tropicals are - they don't need a heated tank and they won't die at the
(still relatively high) temperatures that would kill these fish; or at
the (still relatively low) temperatures that would make true cold-water
fish very uncomfortable indeed. I think my point might have been that
I'm uncomfortable with such a simplistic designation for such adaptable
fish. I'm a total newbie at this, so my opinion isn't worth a great
deal, but for gf I find either cold- or warm-water a confusing
designation.



>Tom L.L.
>-----------------------------------------
>sophie wrote:
>
>> In message <ch0op6$ag2$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
>><tllabron.DeleteThis@cimtel.net> writes
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> First of all, I really don't care about coldwater fish for Goldfish
>>>and KOI are Warmwater fish.
>> Tom, while I appreciate that both species may well survive and be
>>happy at warmer temperatures, I think the big issue is that both
>>species live well and long in environments where the winter
>>temperature drops to levels that would kill fish usually classed as
>>warm water fish very quickly. In this country goldfish and koi both
>>live long and happily in outdoor ponds (I'm not sure what the record
>>lifespan for a koi is but I know it's huge), and the ambient
>>temperature is sometimes below freezing. If I remember my physics
>>correctly, water is densest at 4 degrees C so there is a bottom band
>>at this temperature whether the surface is warmer or colder, but this
>>can't be classed as "warm". For me the key is survival, and the range
>>of temperatures at which gf and koi will survive is too great for
>>them to be classed simply as warm- (or cold!) water fish.
>> OT, at least as far as the original post is concerned, so
>>apologies...
>>

--
sophie
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities 

Sophie,

There is nothing simplistic about it. If we use your
correlations then Guppies and Mollies would be
coldwater fish also, because they do fine in water that
is 50 degrees. In fact, Mollies are estuary fish that
range all the way north to northern North Carolina to
the coast of Texas to the Ecuador Peninsula. Just
because a fish is adaptable that doesn't form its
designation. Mollies are often found in sea water,
does this make them salt water fish, I don't think so.


Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------------------
sophie wrote:
> In message <ch8imu$k7t$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
> <tllabron.TakeThisOut@cimtel.net> writes
>
>> Sophie,
>>
>> Surviving in an extreme doesn't designate a fish as to whether it is
>> cold or warmwater. Living in that environment is what designates
>> whether the fish is cold or warmwater.
>>
>> Just because a Goldfish or KOI can survive in 38 degree F. water
>> doesn't mean that this is the fish's normal environment for it normal
>> living processes. Normal living processes includes eating and
>> reproduction of which neither occurs at temperatures below 55 degrees,
>> where as, trout feed and reproduce in waters between 40-60 degrees,
>> their normal living environment.
>>
>> These are not my designations by the way. These are the established
>> designations by fish biologist and aquaculturist.
>>
>> HTH
>
>
> it does, and I'm not questioning whether or not goldfish do *better* in
> warmer water as it seems to me to be a given that they do; what I was
> trying to say was that they aren't warm-water fish in the way that the
> tropicals are - they don't need a heated tank and they won't die at the
> (still relatively high) temperatures that would kill these fish; or at
> the (still relatively low) temperatures that would make true cold-water
> fish very uncomfortable indeed. I think my point might have been that
> I'm uncomfortable with such a simplistic designation for such adaptable
> fish. I'm a total newbie at this, so my opinion isn't worth a great
> deal, but for gf I find either cold- or warm-water a confusing designation.
>
>
>
>> Tom L.L.
>> -----------------------------------------
>> sophie wrote:
>>
>>> In message <ch0op6$ag2$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
>>> <tllabron.TakeThisOut@cimtel.net> writes
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> First of all, I really don't care about coldwater fish for Goldfish
>>>> and KOI are Warmwater fish.
>>>
>>> Tom, while I appreciate that both species may well survive and be
>>> happy at warmer temperatures, I think the big issue is that both
>>> species live well and long in environments where the winter
>>> temperature drops to levels that would kill fish usually classed as
>>> warm water fish very quickly. In this country goldfish and koi both
>>> live long and happily in outdoor ponds (I'm not sure what the record
>>> lifespan for a koi is but I know it's huge), and the ambient
>>> temperature is sometimes below freezing. If I remember my physics
>>> correctly, water is densest at 4 degrees C so there is a bottom band
>>> at this temperature whether the surface is warmer or colder, but
>>> this can't be classed as "warm". For me the key is survival, and the
>>> range of temperatures at which gf and koi will survive is too great
>>> for them to be classed simply as warm- (or cold!) water fish.
>>> OT, at least as far as the original post is concerned, so apologies...
>>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities 

In message <chgi1u$5v2$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
<tllabron DeleteThis @cimtel.net> writes
>Sophie,
>
>There is nothing simplistic about it. If we use your correlations then
>Guppies and Mollies would be coldwater fish also, because they do fine
>in water that is 50 degrees. In fact, Mollies are estuary fish that
>range all the way north to northern North Carolina to the coast of
>Texas to the Ecuador Peninsula. Just because a fish is adaptable that
>doesn't form its designation. Mollies are often found in sea water,
>does this make them salt water fish, I don't think so.

tepid-water fish!

(sorry. I'm being silly now, and flippancy is never useful. It's not a
simple issue at all, is it? To a newbie - me - "cold" and "warm" water
sound very black and white, and they aren't, hence my confusion.)

thanks for your patience,
>
>
>Tom L.L.
>----------------------------------------------------------
>sophie wrote:
>> In message <ch8imu$k7t$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
>><tllabron DeleteThis @cimtel.net> writes
>>
>>> Sophie,
>>>
>>> Surviving in an extreme doesn't designate a fish as to whether it is
>>>cold or warmwater. Living in that environment is what designates
>>>whether the fish is cold or warmwater.
>>>
>>> Just because a Goldfish or KOI can survive in 38 degree F. water
>>>doesn't mean that this is the fish's normal environment for it normal
>>>living processes. Normal living processes includes eating and
>>>reproduction of which neither occurs at temperatures below 55
>>>degrees, where as, trout feed and reproduce in waters between 40-60
>>>degrees, their normal living environment.
>>>
>>> These are not my designations by the way. These are the established
>>>designations by fish biologist and aquaculturist.
>>>
>>> HTH
>> it does, and I'm not questioning whether or not goldfish do
>>*better* in warmer water as it seems to me to be a given that they
>>do; what I was trying to say was that they aren't warm-water fish in
>>the way that the tropicals are - they don't need a heated tank and
>>they won't die at the (still relatively high) temperatures that would
>>kill these fish; or at the (still relatively low) temperatures that
>>would make true cold-water fish very uncomfortable indeed. I think my
>>point might have been that I'm uncomfortable with such a simplistic
>>designation for such adaptable fish. I'm a total newbie at this, so
>>my opinion isn't worth a great deal, but for gf I find either cold-
>>or warm-water a confusing designation.
>>
>>> Tom L.L.
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> sophie wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <ch0op6$ag2$1@news.mbo.net>, Tom L. La Bron
>>>><tllabron DeleteThis @cimtel.net> writes
>>>>
>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, I really don't care about coldwater fish for
>>>>>Goldfish and KOI are Warmwater fish.
>>>>
>>>> Tom, while I appreciate that both species may well survive and be
>>>>happy at warmer temperatures, I think the big issue is that both
>>>>species live well and long in environments where the winter
>>>>temperature drops to levels that would kill fish usually classed as
>>>>warm water fish very quickly. In this country goldfish and koi both
>>>>live long and happily in outdoor ponds (I'm not sure what the
>>>>record lifespan for a koi is but I know it's huge), and the
>>>>ambient temperature is sometimes below freezing. If I remember my
>>>>physics correctly, water is densest at 4 degrees C so there is a
>>>>bottom band at this temperature whether the surface is warmer or
>>>>colder, but this can't be classed as "warm". For me the key is
>>>>survival, and the range of temperatures at which gf and koi will
>>>>survive is too great for them to be classed simply as warm- (or cold!) water fish.
>>>> OT, at least as far as the original post is concerned, so apologies...
>>>>
>>

--
sophie
 >> Stay informed about: Oxygen level and fish varities