Mixed Breeds Trait Dominance

Nomdeplume wrote:
>
> I'm not being smart-assed here, but, the lighter bones only benefit
> someone who is racing. Muscular plus strong bones are OK for
> endurance, IMO. Malamutes aren't so light boned, are they? And they
> are the supreme endurance dogs.
>
> I have hiked, backpacked with dogs for over a decade and I have heard
> of Labs just quitting on some hikers. Greyhounds don't have
> endurance. Built for speed. But with Labs, it seems to be a mental
> thing, as they are not injured. They just quit.
>
> OTOH, there are a weath of sporting dogs very similar to Labs, that I
> have never heard of quitting. Goldens, Visla, even those wild and
> crazy Irish Setters. You might consider something like a
> Golden/Husky breed.
>
> I'd ask on the hiking list, people who have Labs who do well on the
> trail. Get the name of the breeder, and look for a Lab who has the
> "right stuff" for you. You can also inquire about the body type of
> the successful hiking Lab, so you can make a better informed
> guestimate when choosing a mix.
>
Interesting observations. The work Labs were developed to do involves
working in bursts, with periods of rest in between. Pointing breeds
such as the Irish setter and Vizsla are designed to maintain a pace
for extended periods of time. I think broad vs. narrow chest is one
feature that bears on endurance. In addition, though, I think Labs
tend to lack an ability to pace themselves. When they go, they go all out.

There are some interesting studies of body temperature. A working
Lab's body temperature apparently goes up to about 106 within the
first ten minutes of work. It would be interesting to see if some of
the bird dog breeds maintain a lower body temperature, and if that is
a factor in their endurance. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that
was the case, especially as Labs' scenting ability falls off when they
get hot--and a bird dog needs its scenting ability!

There are a lot of people who use Labs as flushing dogs, and even
people breeding pointing Labs. These dogs may have a physique
and endurance level beyond that of the waterfowl-type Labs.

Amy Dahl
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Amy Dahl <amy RemoveThis @oakhillkennel.com> wrote:
>There are some interesting studies of body temperature. A working
>Lab's body temperature apparently goes up to about 106 within the
>first ten minutes of work. It would be interesting to see if some of
>the bird dog breeds maintain a lower body temperature, and if that is
>a factor in their endurance.

Could be. Coming from the herding dog side of things,
many of them were bred to be endurance trotters (GSDs,
for example) as opposed to a breed like BCs, which
tend to alternate between a creep and a sprint.

Briards (my breed) are very much endurance trotters.
I once tested out the body-temperature thing with her.
After working her non-stop for about 45 minutes, I
immediately took her temperature afterwards and found
that it had gone up less than 2 degrees.

JFWIW,

Dianne
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"dianne marie schoenberg" <diannes.TakeThisOut@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bhlick$14pq$1@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
> Amy Dahl <amy.TakeThisOut@oakhillkennel.com> wrote:
> >There are some interesting studies of body temperature. A working
> >Lab's body temperature apparently goes up to about 106 within the
> >first ten minutes of work. It would be interesting to see if some of
> >the bird dog breeds maintain a lower body temperature, and if that is
> >a factor in their endurance.
>
> Could be. Coming from the herding dog side of things,
> many of them were bred to be endurance trotters (GSDs,
> for example) as opposed to a breed like BCs, which
> tend to alternate between a creep and a sprint.
>
> Briards (my breed) are very much endurance trotters.
> I once tested out the body-temperature thing with her.
> After working her non-stop for about 45 minutes, I
> immediately took her temperature afterwards and found
> that it had gone up less than 2 degrees.

Interesting stuff! I'm guessing that Belgians are much the
same way. Amazing as that is...seeing how some, especially
a lot of the Mals I've see, work in great bursts of energy?
Shelly & The Boys
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jeffstg.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Jeff) wrote in
news:7e3741de.0308150822.71e2dd23@posting.google.com:

> My question has to do with whether or not it can be (relatively
> reliably) predicted which breed personality traits will be more
> dominant in a mixed pup. For example – take a lab/husky mix. Should I
> expect this dog to also be very independent like the husky, or very
> trainable like the lab? Or is there really no way to predict something
> like that?
>

Others have said that there's no predicting this, and I agree. My cocker
spaniel/chow cross has a lot of the chow independence and also the cocker
eagerness to please. When she was younger, it was quite funny, she would
actually look more chowish at home and more cockerish when we were out and
about. Now that she's full grown, she doesn't seem to "morph" as much, and
she continues to be more independent than cockers and more friendly to
strangers than chows. She has the chow fastidiousness, which made
housebreaking a breeze.

I read up on both temperaments and liked what I knew of both of them, so I
was somewhat prepared for whatever she turned into. But mostly I went with
my gut feeling, Zoe spoke to me at the shelter, we just somehow connected
more than I did with the other dogs/puppies there. Her case is a little
different from most mixes, because she had two purebred parents, so what
made up her "mix" was known.

I'd say knowing the personality traits of the breeds that make up the mix
might be more useful for "ruling out" purposes than for "choosing"
purposes. If you don't like independence, for instance, and the dog has a
known independent breed in his/her background, then you might not want to
pick that dog.

Unless s/he speaks to you. :)

--Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow who today is speaking to the detritus on my deck. Yes
I know I should clean it off.
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Shelly & The Boys wrote:
>
> Interesting stuff! I'm guessing that Belgians are much the
> same way. Amazing as that is...seeing how some, especially
> a lot of the Mals I've see, work in great bursts of energy?
> Shelly & The Boys

I'm really looking forward to seeing more data on this. As far as I
know, Labs have been studied because they are subject to several
conditions classed as "exercise intolerance." I believe the
researchers were surprised by the temperature findings. I'm very
interested in Dianne's observation of her Briard

Amy Dahl
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"Amy Dahl" <amy RemoveThis @oakhillkennel.com> wrote in message
news:3F3EC2AC.C83A5499@oakhillkennel.com...
>
>
> Shelly & The Boys wrote:
> >
> > Interesting stuff! I'm guessing that Belgians are much the
> > same way. Amazing as that is...seeing how some, especially
> > a lot of the Mals I've see, work in great bursts of energy?
> > Shelly & The Boys
>
> I'm really looking forward to seeing more data on this. As far as I
> know, Labs have been studied because they are subject to several
> conditions classed as "exercise intolerance." I believe the
> researchers were surprised by the temperature findings. I'm very
> interested in Dianne's observation of her Briard
>

Yes, I've heard of that condition in Labs (cannot remember the
name of it) where they collapse after bursts of energy.
I'm curious now. I would be willing to try & get a temp before
and after running Bodhi on sheep, but he's never in for more
than probably 10-15 minutes at a time right now. I should really
time it, that way I have an idea of any progress. Right now,
he just gets all weird eyed when he's ready for a break, and
stops listening to me. That pretty much tells me it's time for
a drink & rest, for me, the sheep & him.
I'd actually try it w/ Coda as well (best guess, ColliexGolden)
while herding as well. Except Coda uses a lot more energy
bouncing around & barking since he's not near as confident as
Bodhi, so it wouldn't really be a fair comparison.
Shelly & The Boys
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Amy Dahl <amy RemoveThis @oakhillkennel.com> wrote:
>I'm really looking forward to seeing more data on this. As far as I
>know, Labs have been studied because they are subject to several
>conditions classed as "exercise intolerance." I believe the
>researchers were surprised by the temperature findings. I'm very
>interested in Dianne's observation of her Briard

Well, I'll tell you, the funniest thing about it was
standing there next to the sheep pen with the thermometer
stuck up her butt where a guy was screaming at his
out-of-control dog that kept running the sheep into
the fence. She was a very, very good girl :-).

Dianne
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Shelly & The Boys <snjb.DeleteThis@BADBOYSpacifier.com> wrote:
>Yes, I've heard of that condition in Labs (cannot remember the
>name of it) where they collapse after bursts of energy.

Are you thinking of malignant hyperthermia? That's
bad stuff. It's not a normal physiological reaction
to activity, it's an inherited health disorder, and
IMHO a pretty severe one.

Dianne
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dianne marie schoenberg wrote:
>
> Shelly & The Boys <snjb.RemoveThis@BADBOYSpacifier.com> wrote:
> >Yes, I've heard of that condition in Labs (cannot remember the
> >name of it) where they collapse after bursts of energy.
>
> Are you thinking of malignant hyperthermia? That's
> bad stuff. It's not a normal physiological reaction
> to activity, it's an inherited health disorder, and
> IMHO a pretty severe one.
>
As I understand it, the reason for the research is that there
are multiple conditions affecting Labs, including exercise-
induced collapse (EIC), muscular myopathy a.k.a. Labrador
retriever muscular dystrophy, and others which do not fit well
with these two. I think they saw the temp rise in affected
Labs, said "aha!", checked a healthy control group for
completeness, and were surprised to find the same temp rise
in the controls. But I may overdramatise.

The collective name for the syndromes is "exercise
intolerance."

Amy Dahl
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