Lab has allergies - Need Help!

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
>Melinda Shore wrote:
>> I'm curious to know how she knows for a fact that grains
>> make up the majority of dog food company food sources.
>All kibble manufacturers list their ingredients online. Wasn't that an
>easy one?

No. Are you really this badly educated?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore RemoveThis @panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

chardonnay9 wrote in


> Shelly wrote:
>> chardonnay9 wrote in
>>
>>
>>> You can't comprehend "yeast infection"?
>>
>> Yeast infection != food allergy.
>
> It doesn't go away by merely taking away the allergen like
> allergies tend to do. You have to specifically treat for it.

It does if it's an allergy, which is what the OP was asking about.

> So why would you tell him to talk to his vet? Sounds plain
> stupid.

Says the person who does not take her dogs to the vet, period.

> Steroids and Benedryl don't eliminate anything.

Benadryl is an antihistimine, so it damned sure *does* stop (I assume
that's what you mean by eliminate) certain reactions. Prednisone,
while potentially dangerous, surpresses (dare I say eliminates?)
inflamation. It can also slow the growth of certain tumors. Short-
term use of prednisone for severe allegies can be helpful. And in
some animals (e.g. cats), long-term, low-dose use can be a life saver
with very few side-effects.

> All they are good for is hiding things and both have sometimes
> severe side effects.

Water kills, dude.

> I'd never give a dog either one. Guess I'm a lot pickier about
> what my dogs get than you are.

The evidence suggests the exact opposite, actually.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

>> Steroids and Benedryl don't eliminate anything.
>
> Benadryl is an antihistimine, so it damned sure *does* stop (I assume
> that's what you mean by eliminate) certain reactions.

And even if the cause of the allergy is immediately discovered, it takes
quite a while to get out of the system. So in the meantime, giving the dog
something to ease the symptoms and make him/her comfortable is what is
called 'humane'.
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

> Natural Balance food, duck & potato or Venison & green pea. These are the
> two allergie foods that I use for my dog and they work. I even have a cat
> who's eating the the venison version for cats as we try and determine why
> she has diarheaa.
>
> I know Petco carries this in their stores if you don't have a local one
> you can order online.

Yep. We have patients who have had good results with this. Also Hills Z/D.
This prescription diet hydrolyzes the proteins the pet is allergic to during
processing before the pet eats it. We tried everything with our dog (yes,
including raw) with her food allergies. She was miserable and it was inumane
to continue trying different diets. We tried the Z/D on a whim when it first
came out with the attitude of, "well, it couldn't hurt at this point". It
saved her life. Within 3 weeks her red, inflammed belly was white. Her ears
stopped itching. The need for medication to relieve symptoms (which in turn
taxed her kidneys) were comepletely eliminated.
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

"Spot" wrote in


> Natural Balance food, duck & potato or Venison & green pea. These
> are the two allergie foods that I use for my dog and they work.

You mean they work for your dog. If Mike's dog is allergic to one or
more of the ingredients in the food, it will not work for him.

I'm also unsure why you'd feed him two different foods, if he has
food allergies. Why expose him to a novel protein unnecessarily?
Now you won't be able to use that food as Plan B, if he develops an
allergy to it.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

Shelly wrote:

> chardonnay9 wrote in

>
>>Just because Melinda doesn't agree with me doesn't mean I'm a
>>kook.
>
>
> The fact that you're a kook is what makes you a kook, ya kook.
>
She's a complete and total wingnut kook. I have her killerated but may
have to unkillerate her just to help newbies understand that this isn't
just one or two people "ganging up" on someone, it's a real effort to
make sure Chard's very dangerous and misinformed information doesn't get
dogs hurt or killed.
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

HOWEDY Mike and Me,

"Mike and Me" wrote in message

> Need the group's help please.

They ALL got the SAME PROBLEMS and WORSE,
AS YOU'VE SEEN, Mike and Me <{}'; ~ ) >

And they ALL got a PROBLEM for LYIN abHOWET it.

You'll NEVER see Chardonnay9 or ME recommending new
posters NOT READ any or all of the VITAL INFORMATION
here -- IN FACT, we highly recommend you DO READ ALL
the INFORMATION here and then the MENTAL CASES will
get the heel HOWETA these news groups.

Subject: Re: Conefree. Srsly.

Monday, September 22, 2008

Janet Boss wrote in
E67C81.13422822092008.DeleteThis@news.individual.net:

> I like that kind of news! No more cone - wahooo!

Amen! I think I hated the damned thing almost as much as she did.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

-------------------------

"Shelly" wrote in message


Subject: You Are Dead to Me!

Monday, November 10, 2008

"Shelly" wrote in message

This is how I was greeted when I got home today.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cat-sidh/3019519911/

Harriet had stopped licking her feet, but suddenly started again over
the weekend, only this time, she was gnawing the hell out of them.
In the time it took me to take a shower, she chewed open the skin on
one of her pinkie toes. She was also rubbing her ears. This is the
first time in years that she's had an ear infection. It cropped up
just before she started chewing her feet, so I'm assuming the two are
related.

She spent the day in the Cone of Shame, and we went back to the vet
this afternoon. (Yes, the cone is too long. I tried a shorter cone
on her, and she was still able to chew. Bendy Dog is a pain in the
ass.) She'll probably have to be in the cone for a few days, while
I'm not home. I will be sleeping with one eye open.

Anyway, I got a refill of cephalexin (her skin infection is almost
cleared up, but not completely), some hydrocortisone spray, and some
antibacterial/anti-fungal wipes for her ears and feet.

We had a longer than normal wait at the vet. We saw the world's
smallest and cutest land manatee (I think it was a Pug mix; it had a
short, fat tail that did not curl), a Shihtzu that totally thought he
got a raw deal, because Harriet got treats and he didn't (I
remembered them this time), and an absolutely gorgeous GSD mix
with brindle legs.

Harriet comported herself beautifully. Minimal hrmphing and no
crankiness about other dogs--not even the Shihtzu on the ubiquitous
Flexi, who made a bee-line for her when he came in.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

> Mike and Me wrote in
>
>
>> ...... Need recommendation for premium "grainless" food I can use.

shellys' dog got anorexia nervosa by proxy:

Dateline: rec.pets.dogs.* newsgroups

Breaking Mental Illness News, JUNE 2004!

HATTIE @ 47 lbs!

Hattie, a boxer owned by shelly couvrette is
now down to 47 pounds. Couvrette, a librarian
at Indiana U. who suffers from obsessive/
compulsive disorder (OCD), was told by three
different Veterinarians that Hattie was "way
too skinny" when Hattie weighed 53 lbs.

Undeterred by that, and the reactions from
family and strangers on the street, shelly
continued shopping for vets and cutting
calories until Hattie, a chronic counter
surfer at age 5 now weighs just 47 lbs!

shelly finds all the symptoms of a starving
dog searching for nutrients to be entertaining.

Couvrette has developed a unique
technique to fool dogs who are having
pangs of starvation. She feeds them
green beans and canned pumpkin, so
there will be some "filler" in their
stomachs when they give her the
"I'm Starving--no, really" routine.

shelly is not nearly as obsessed with her
own weight, and has never been told by a
medical professional that she is "way too
skinny." If so, that medical professional would
be end up on this crazy person list as well.

shelly
couvrette

OUR NEWEST MVP (MOST VALUABLE PSYCHOTIC)

All in the Mental Family

shelly: severe OCD
shelly's mom: chronic depression
shelly's brother: severe BiPolar

Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil
for mental illness, but claims she does
not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than
any other female in all dog newsgroups

(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself (see below). Still thinks
of herself as a five year old ballerina
despite the fact that she is a fat
adult in her mid thirties.

SHELLY GOES KUCKOOO!!!
Over shih tzu's being fed almost as much
as hattie (page to top)

----------------------

SHELLY DETHRONES NESSA AS OUR NEW MVP
(most valuable psychotic) Nessa loses MVP title due to
inactivity so shelly takes over by default)

ALL NEW as of 9/19/2004
A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly couvrette,

All in the Mental Family

shelly: severe OCD
shelly's mom: chronic depression
shelly's brother: severe BiPolar

shelly's dogs are victims of Munchausens
Anorexia by proxy Syndrome. Here, she goes
off the deep end because she OCD'd on a
conversation she overheard about the quantity
of food being fed to her coworker's son's
shih tzus.

hattie, shelly's starving boxer (who,
theoretically, if she was not being
systematically starved by a psychotic
owner) should weigh at least five times
more than a shih tzu, yet she doesn't
get five times as much food. She
doesn't even get twice as much.

Can you say "KUCKOOOO!!!"

IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT MY COWORKER'S
SON DOESN'T STARVE HIS DOG

SHIH TZUS EATS MORE THAN HALF AS MUCH
AS HATTIE

one of my cow-orkers was just on the phone
with her son.....

and, get this! the were discussing feeding
amounts. her Shih Tzus eat more than half
as much as my dogs! i don't know if that's
because Iams is less calorically dense than
the foods my dogs eat or what, but i'm
boggled. *boggled*, i tell ya'.

so, anyway, i've bitten my tongue nearly
in half.

-- shelly (perfectly foul wench) and
elliott and harriet

EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED

"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
--shelly couvrette

STILL VET SHOPPING

"<raises hand> i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
*way* too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."

--shelly couvrette

THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE

"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."

--shelly couvrette

POSITIVELY STARVED

"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"

--shelly couvrette

WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE
HURTING YOUR WIDDLE PRECIOUS?

"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
*realize* that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."

--shelly couvrette

JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom

FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF, BITCH
-shelly

"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."

--shelly couvrette

March 2004, HATTIE DOWN TO 47 POUNDS

"while i was sick,
elliott was *pretty* good (he got really
needy and pathetic toward the end), but
harriet turned into 47lbs of pure
orneriness."

--shelly couvrette

NOBODY IS STARVING SHELLY

NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~sc ouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg

There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who
starve their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.

shelly is more than a little bit beyond the pale

Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little
obsessive about measuring out extra tiny and
discrete portions with a tiny measuring
cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or
pumpkin that she gives her dogs when they give
her the "I'm Starving" routine. When grandma
tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly probably
went apeshit, because it was in violation of
her Obsessive need to oversee every tiny
calorie that goes into her widdle precious'
mouth.

shelly's a special case, a special kind of
dog abuser.

NEWSFLASH

in late september, 2004 shelly left the group
because diddy was a meanie pants to her.
shelly's illness prevented her from seeing
the reality that she was the # 1
meanie pants in the history of the dog
newsgroups. We hope she gets the treatment
she needs.

--------------
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

Sharon Too wrote:
>>> Steroids and Benedryl don't eliminate anything.
>> Benadryl is an antihistimine, so it damned sure *does* stop (I assume
>> that's what you mean by eliminate) certain reactions.
>
> And even if the cause of the allergy is immediately discovered, it takes
> quite a while to get out of the system. So in the meantime, giving the dog
> something to ease the symptoms and make him/her comfortable is what is
> called 'humane'.
>
>

Yes, you should give relief if this is severe but you can do that
without such dangerous "solutions".

Oatmeal baths, a Reiki treatment, or a lavender spray made like this:
Bring 1 quart of water to a boil, steep 4 - 5 tblsps of dried lavender
herb
(available at most health food stores). Let cool and strain. This can be
used
as often as needed. If she can't get the herb, she can put a few drops of
lavender essential oil in some water and spritz that on.
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

Robin Nuttall wrote:
> Shelly wrote:
>
>> chardonnay9 wrote in
>
>>
>>> Just because Melinda doesn't agree with me doesn't mean I'm a
>>> kook.
>>
>>
>> The fact that you're a kook is what makes you a kook, ya kook.
>>
> She's a complete and total wingnut kook. I have her killerated but may
> have to unkillerate her just to help newbies understand that this isn't
> just one or two people "ganging up" on someone, it's a real effort to
> make sure Chard's very dangerous and misinformed information doesn't get
> dogs hurt or killed.

Lavender oil is more dangerous than steroids and Benedryl? My method
stops injury, yours attracts it.

Switching the dog to one protein like chicken solves the problem with
finding the allergen in a very short time. If it doesn't stop in 10 days
you know to switch to a different protein and move on.

Switching to a different kibble still leaves you with dozens of
ingredients to get lost in.

Yeah, I'm the kook because I don't use dangerous drugs on my dogs.

"Steroids don't take years to damage your system, as doctors maintain.
Permanent, crippling damage can occur weeks after you've begun treatment.

* Osteoporosis can occur within a matter of months. Steroids cause
8 per cent reduction in bone mass after four months (Ann Int Med,
November 15, 1993), the equivalent of the effect on your bones of having
your ovaries removed. Even low doses of inhaled steroids (400 micrograms
per day) reduce bone formation (The Lancet, July 6, 1991).
* Low doses (10-15 mg prednisone) for a year can cause cataracts
(Surv Ophthalmol, 1986; 31: 260-2).
* Topical steroids may begin to cause eye damage or raise pressure
after two weeks. Extensive visual loss can be caused by a 1 per cent
hydrocortisone ointment, which is available OTC (BMJ, August 20-27, 1994).
* Rub-on steroids have caused Cushing's syndrome in children as
soon as a month after treatment has begun (Arch Dis Child, 1982; 57: 204-7).
* Inhaled steroids slowth growth in children after six weeks (Acta
Ped, 1993; 82: 636-40. See also, The Lancet, December 14, 1991).
* Bilateral cataracts and glaucoma induced by long term use of
steroid eye drops"
http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/Article.Steroids

"Less than two weeks before Usdi passed away, she became very sick – her
breathing was laboured, and she had difficulty holding her head up. A
visit to the vet resulted in another steroid shot, and no investigations
to find out what the problem was.

Further visits to the vet over the ensuing days resulted in more
steroids and other drugs being administered to poor Usdi.

By the time the Shaffers sought a second opinion, after their vet told
them there was nothing further he could do, it really was too late. The
new vet immediately took blood tests and diagnosed severe Diabetes and
commenced immediate treatment. But sadly, Usdi passed away the day the
treatment commenced.

What can be learned from this tragic story?

ALWAYS question the need for any drugs administered by your vet. Never
assume that the treatment is required or even desirable, without seeking
further information in relation to the proposed medications. Ask about
the side effects. Ask for a "patient information sheet" on all drugs
prescribed for your dog’s health, and read them and understand how
certain medications will affect your pet. Your dog’s health depends on YOU.

If your vet prescribes steroids and fails to explain the possible side
effects, ask why. Ask for possible alternative treatments. And if your
vet continues to recommend the steroids, ask him/her the specific
reasons why. Investigate alternatives yourself if your dog is not
suffering from a life threatening condition.

And learn from Usdi’s story, that if your pet is on any type of steroid
therapy and hasn't had blood tests carried out, demand these test no
matter how much you trust your vet. The Shaffers trusted Usdi's vet
sadly to Usdi’s ultimate detriment. They were told that these tests
WOULD have saved Usdi."
http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/UsdisStory
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

Shelly,

How did you and your vet determine that your dog was allergic
to food components as opposed to, say, environmental elements?
Medical tests? Simple experimentation?

Thanks,
Cathy

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:07:51 +0000 (UTC), Shelly wrote:

>Mike and Me wrote in
>
>
>> ...... Need recommendation for premium "grainless" food I can use.
>
>Figuring this out will likely require a little trial and error and a
>lot of patience. Just going grainless will not help, if your dog is
>actually allergic to the protein source in his food. I'd recommend a
>limited ingredient diet that does not contain grains, nor, if possible,
>any main ingredients that the dog has already been exposed to. You
>want something novel.
>
>I've been dealing with a similar problem with my dog. No hot spots,
>but she was chewing her feet and scratching constantly. I had already
>tried several diet changes (they can take several weeks to make a
>difference), but hadn't had a lasting improvement from any of them.
>
>I talked to my vet, who said that it could be the protien source, but
>that could also be the carbohydrate source. She said that they're
>seeing more dogs allergic to rice and lamb, as foods with those
>ingredients have increased in popularity.
>
>What I did was try a grain free, limited ingredient food. We started
>out with Natural Balance venison and sweet potato. That helped. After
>a few months, she was no longer itching, but she was still chewing her
>feet. I then switched her to Natural Balance duck and potato, which
>she's doing even better on. The only drawback has been that she smells
>like smoked duck and french fries, a combination I'm not such a fan of.
>It's also low in fat, and her coat has consequently become dry and
>flaky. I've been supplementing with flax oil, since it's in her food,
>but it's still too early to tell if it's going to help. If it doesn't,
>I'm going to have to look for a different food, and the fun will start
>all over again!
>
>Keep in mind, too, that a dog with food allergies can become allergic
>to something he hasn't previously had an allergy to. It's possible
>that you'll find a food he tolerates well, only to find out a few years
>from now that he can no longer eat it. At that point, you'll have to
>do another trial-and-error search for a new food. This is why,
>consequently, I would avoid giving healthy dogs foods with novel
>ingredients. If you do that, you'll have nothing to fall back on if
>your dog develops an allergy.
>
>Something else to consider is talking to your vet about medication. My
>vet put my dog on a two-week course of prednisone. I'm not a fan of
>pred, because it has some serious side-effects, but it has its place.
>I'm glad we put her on it, though, because it gave her system a chance
>to stop reacting.
>
>For more long-term use, my vet recommended Benadryl 3x/day. There are
>other antihistimines that can be used in dogs, some that might work
>better and some not so well (e.g. Chlortrimeton and Zyrtec). It's a
>matter of talking to your vet and finding the right one at the right
>dosage for your dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

cathyh.RemoveThis@flipmail.com wrote in
4ax.com:

> How did you and your vet determine that your dog was allergic
> to food components as opposed to, say, environmental elements?
> Medical tests? Simple experimentation?

Process of elimination. Her allergies are year round. She's had
them while living in three different towns. The logical place to
look, then, was diet.

There *are* allergy tests that can be performed, but my vet didn't
recommend them in our case. My understanding is that they are
expensive and not very reliable for food allergies. (Testing for
inhalent or contact allergies might be more accurate, though.)

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

chardonnay9 wrote:

<snip>
>>
>>> You have to eliminate the problem, not hide it.
>>
>> Sometimes eliminating the problem involves medication.
>
> Steroids and Benedryl don't eliminate anything. All they are good for is
> hiding things and both have sometimes severe side effects. I'd never
> give a dog either one. Guess I'm a lot pickier about what my dogs get
> than you are.
>
>
<snip>

How about a secondary infection caused by itching resulting from
allergies? Using Prednisone to control the allergic reaction so the
itching stops you can then treat the skin infection. If the itching
were not controlled the skin infection could be in a position to not be
treatable.

I had just that happen with one of my old Cairn Terriers. He had severe
food allergies, he needed the offending ingredient removed from his
diet, he needed prednisone to take care of his itching and he needed an
anti fungal topical medication to handle the fungal infection that
resulted from the raw skin from the itching. As it took over a year to
fully diagnose everything that was going on, and during that year each
of those treatments was attempted individually without success (as well
as many others), sometimes you need to cover up the effects of the
problem so the problem can be dealt with.

You're a kook.

Nick
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help! 

"Nick" wrote in message


> How about a secondary infection caused by itching resulting from
> allergies? Using Prednisone to control the allergic reaction so the
> itching stops you can then treat the skin infection. If the itching
> were not controlled the skin infection could be in a position to not
> be
> treatable.

That is *exactly* why a short course of prednisone was prescribed for
Harriet. Turns out, what they thought was the initial allergic reaction
was actually a post-op staph infection, but the pred was still *very*
helpful.

> anti fungal topical medication to handle the fungal infection that
> resulted from the raw skin from the itching.

Harriet also ended up needing that for a yeast infection caused--IMO--by
being on an extended course of antibiotics.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 >> Stay informed about: Lab has allergies - Need Help!