Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption

Matt- Are you interested in our dog or just asking questions? Yes, we
have tried training, and an electric fence. No, she cannot be left
inside alone, since she will sometimes get destructive. "Rescue" means
we saved her from sure death at the local pound right before she was to
be picked up as a stray. We have done ALL we can do, and now the table
is set.

If you are interested in adopting her, please let me hear from you. If
you are just asking questions, I am not interested in answering.

Thanks,

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

On 24 Apr 2005 10:01:45 -0700, "Knoxville Steve"
<croslins.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> spewed forth :

I picked up a dog on the highway a few weeks ago. In the short time
I've had him I've trained him out of: chewing, inappropriate
toileting, leash-tugging, digging, fence-climbing and jumping on his
new humans. No electricity involved.

Sounds to me as if you've got a bored dog that needs retraining and
redirection. How do your children behave?
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

Knoxville Steve said in rec.pets.dogs.rescue:

> If you are just asking questions, I'm not
> interested.

That's OK, though questions are normally a good thing. I'm glad
that you explained - your original post was kind of off putting.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

On 24 Apr 2005 10:06:07 -0700, "Knoxville Steve"
<croslins.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Matt- Are you interested in our dog or just asking questions? Yes, we
>have tried training, and an electric fence. No, she cannot be left
>inside alone, since she will sometimes get destructive. "Rescue" means
>we saved her from sure death at the local pound right before she was to
>be picked up as a stray. We have done ALL we can do, and now the table
>is set.

Sorry, but no, you haven't. There are ways to train dogs not to be
destructive, and to manage them during the training period. Ever
heard of a crate? Now the dog you "rescued" is an adolescent, and
depending on where you take her, she may end up being put down anyway.

>If you are interested in adopting her, please let me hear from you. If
>you are just asking questions, I am not interested in answering.

I've got news for you. You're posting to a rescue newsgroup. This
particular group is read, and posted to, primarily by people involved
in rescue and people looking to place dogs in rescue, not by people
interested in adopting a dog. If you're trying to get someone to take
your dog, people will ask questions.

Mustang Sally
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

Some of the more helpful responses I have received seeking to find a
home for a sweet dog:

"Sounds to me as if you've got a bored dog that needs retraining and
redirection. How do your children behave?" Response: Please go away. My
children are better adjusted than you are, just based on reading two
sentences from you.

"Sorry, but no, you haven't. There are ways to train dogs not to be
destructive, and to manage them during the training period."

Response: I have tried everything to control this dog from jumping the
fence. Sorry but you are not so smart- there are dogs who cannot be
taught to stay inside a short fence like mine no matter what. Lucy
needs a high fence (probably 5 feet) and/or an indoor environment.

"...depending on where you take her, she may end up being put down
anyway."
Response: Uh, based on the "help" I have received here so far, Lucy
probably WILL end up in dog heaven. I have done ALL I can do for her
and she had four good years on this earth thanks to me. At least she
had that long. There appears to be no one on this board who has any
interest at all in adopting a dog.

When I posted a message here a few days ago looking for a home for our
dog, I had high hopes, but this newgroup seems intent only on criticism
and "here's how you can train her, you dummy". If you can offer only
criticism, please keep your opinions to yourself. I am discouraged by
all the "spam" and may not even check here again. What a shame.
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

Thanks so much for this VERY helpful (and most courteous) reply from
Mustang Sally to my posting of a sweet dog who needs adoption:

"I"'ve got news for you." she says in her most self-righteous voice.
"You're posting to a rescue newsgroup. This
particular group is read, and posted to, primarily by people involved
in rescue and people looking to place dogs in rescue, not by people
interested in adopting a dog."

Response: Sally, I've got news for you. Here is this newsgroup's
Description: [Information about breed rescue, placing and adopting.]
(From the home page). Please note the last word in the newsgroup
description: adopting. Sorry you missed that, since that is exactly
what I was trying to do.
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

> Thanks so much for this VERY helpful (and most courteous) reply from
> Mustang Sally to my posting of a sweet dog who needs adoption:
>
> "I"'ve got news for you." she says in her most self-righteous voice.
> "You're posting to a rescue newsgroup. This
> particular group is read, and posted to, primarily by people involved
> in rescue and people looking to place dogs in rescue, not by people
> interested in adopting a dog."
>
> Response: Sally, I've got news for you. Here is this newsgroup's
> Description: [Information about breed rescue, placing and adopting.]
> (From the home page). Please note the last word in the newsgroup
> description: adopting. Sorry you missed that, since that is exactly
> what I was trying to do.
>
Well we get people like you all the time. You've had this dog for 3.5 years
and now
you are trying to dump it. Somehow it's our fault and the dog gets offed
because
someone doesn't take it. Sorry Steve, it's all your fault. Have you tried a
hot wire?
No one wants a 4 year old dog. They want pups. Rather than have the dog
humanely
destroyed, you probably are dumping her at some shelter that gasses or sells
to research.
Tell your kids that. "Daddy is sending your doggie to the gas chamber." I
love it when people say
that the dog is smarter than them and they can't deal with it. People have
been
offering suggestions to help you keep your dog. Obviously your mind is made
up.
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

On 26 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "Knoxville Steve"
<croslins.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Some of the more helpful responses I have received seeking to find a
>home for a sweet dog:
>
>"Sounds to me as if you've got a bored dog that needs retraining and
>redirection. How do your children behave?" Response: Please go away. My
>children are better adjusted than you are, just based on reading two
>sentences from you.
>
>"Sorry, but no, you haven't. There are ways to train dogs not to be
>destructive, and to manage them during the training period."
>
>Response: I have tried everything to control this dog from jumping the
>fence. Sorry but you are not so smart- there are dogs who cannot be
>taught to stay inside a short fence like mine no matter what. Lucy
>needs a high fence (probably 5 feet) and/or an indoor environment.

So put up a higher fence, and take her in the house to live where she
belongs. I adopted a dog that jumped my 4 foot fence, and I put up a
6 foot fence.

>"...depending on where you take her, she may end up being put down
>anyway."
>Response: Uh, based on the "help" I have received here so far, Lucy
>probably WILL end up in dog heaven. I have done ALL I can do for her
>and she had four good years on this earth thanks to me. At least she
>had that long. There appears to be no one on this board who has any
>interest at all in adopting a dog.

A) This isn't a board. B) As I told you a couple of days ago, most of
the people who frequent this list are involved in rescue. There
probably isn't anyone here who has any interest in fixing your dog's
behavior problems, but there are several who have offered to help you
fix them. Too bad you don't care enough about her to try. Saying
"I've done all I can for her" isn't very convincing, especially when
you haven't told us what you've tried.

>When I posted a message here a few days ago looking for a home for our
>dog, I had high hopes, but this newgroup seems intent only on criticism
>and "here's how you can train her, you dummy". If you can offer only
>criticism, please keep your opinions to yourself. I am discouraged by
>all the "spam" and may not even check here again. What a shame.

Heh. This isn't spam. If you don't want to check here again, fine,
but don't presume to tell the regulars what they can and can't say to
someone like you. I had a call a week ago from someone like you, who
wanted to return their now 9 year-old Greyhound because she's peeing
and pooping in the house. Seems they've changed jobs and the dog is
now alone 10+ hours a day. They've got new carpeting, too, and of
course they can't have the dog peeing and pooping on it, so the wife
was pushing to return the dog. The husband wondered what he could do.
Rescue people should have crystal balls.

Mustang Sally
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

"Knoxville Steve" <croslins.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Response: I have tried everything to control this dog from jumping the
> fence. Sorry but you are not so smart- there are dogs who cannot be
> taught to stay inside a short fence like mine no matter what.

Yup. I own one, and he's been jumping a 4' fence for 10 years. Why do you
want to rehome this dog? And what have you tried?

> Lucy
> needs a high fence (probably 5 feet) and/or an indoor environment.

Or some other system of confinement that will both keep her safe and
prevent her escapist ways.

"and/or an indoor environment"?

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo:
Raise A Fund, ANZ Babylon Ranger, ANZ MarmaDUKE, and Rotund Rhia
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

<croslins DeleteThis @bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Response: Sally, I've got news for you. Here is this newsgroup's
> Description: [Information about breed rescue, placing and adopting.]
> (From the home page). Please note the last word in the newsgroup
> description: adopting. Sorry you missed that, since that is exactly
> what I was trying to do.

The sad truth is that 4-year-old mixed breeds are very difficult
to place. And the fact that she's also an escape artist who is
destructive indoors are almost infintesimal. This doesn't mean her
issues can't be fixed; they almost certainly can be. But if you
don't care enough about her to address her problems, it's not very
reasonable to expect someone else to, is it?

People here feel for your dog, and that's why you've been given
advice on things that might help her. Too bad it seems that your
mind has already been made up to get rid of her - if you'd've
sought help earlier things probably wouldn't have gotten to this
point.

Sleep well, sweet girl. I hope you get a better shake in your
next life.

Dianne
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

On 26 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "Knoxville Steve"
<croslins.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> spewed forth :

>Some of the more helpful responses I have received seeking to find a
>home for a sweet dog:
>
>"Sounds to me as if you've got a bored dog that needs retraining and
>redirection. How do your children behave?" Response: Please go away. My
>children are better adjusted than you are, just based on reading two
>sentences from you.
>

I doubt it. It has been my experience that people tend to treat their
"pets" similarly to the way they treat their children.

Wooly
With a found pitbull who needed only one loose-leash lesson before he
"got it". Hell, he ignores the yardbirds now he's been scolded enough
times for trying to eat them head-first.
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

"Knoxville Steve" <croslins.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1114559279.964811.203490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Response: I have tried everything to control this dog from jumping the
> fence.

If you have "tried everything" then what makes you think that someone else
will be able to try something that you haven't? Or have you really not
"tried everything" and instead "tried everything that I'm willing to do
because now it's become too inconvenient for me to try anything else, even
though I've had this dog for four years"?

Tirya
--
TDC Inca Jeeper
A girl and her Jeep... it's a beautiful thing...
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption 

On 26 Apr 2005 17:27:48 -0700, croslins.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net wrote:


>...Response: Sally, I've got news for you. Here is this newsgroup's
>Description: [Information about breed rescue, placing and adopting.]
>(From the home page). Please note the last word in the newsgroup
>description: adopting. Sorry you missed that, since that is exactly
>what I was trying to do.

At ease! Perhaps the writer of that description wasn't the Earth's
greatest wordsmith, but most of us here understood the description. For
folks like you, the description might work better, if it said,
"...facilitating adoptions."

You can be as defensive as you wish, but so far, in 13 responses, no one
has asked an unfair question. Folks involved in rescue understand the
goal of each of those questions. They're not meant to put you on guard,
but to help find options you mind not have thought of. Personally, I
can't match some of the training accomplishments that Wooly has made,
but I don't take offense: I admire folks who do that. Besides, my dogs
do what I need them to do.

Rescue is not always about collecting and re-homing a dog: sometimes its
about helping an owner become able to keep the dog. If the details can
be worked out, that's better than any rescue. If you just don't want
Lucy anymore, I doubt that any one can change your mind.

I live in Johnson City, TN, about 100 miles from you. I don't consider
Lucy a problem dog--for me. But the shelter here takes in 800 dogs every
month; and many are very similar to Lucy. So, I can't help you. :-(

You wrote, "she jumps over the 42 inch fence at our new
home, so we cannot keep her due to leash laws." Okay, what if there were
a way to tether Lucy inside of your fenced yard? If you go to a farm
supply store, farmers co-op, or such store, you can find a steel anchor
that has an auger on the bottom and an eye at the top. (There are Not
sold at pet stores, etc.) An 18 inch anchor is sufficient. Screw it into
the ground until the eye is below mower level. Attach a "bull snap" to
the eye, and a cable of sufficient strength to the bull snap. Attach
Lucy to the cable. She will be secure.

Locating the point where the anchor goes is easy. Determine the largest
circumference circle your yard can accommodate, and the anchor should go
in the center. You have to take all physical obstacles into
consideration. If you have a 60 foot free zone, you'll need a cable
that's 25-30 feet long. Shelter and water will have to be available at
the perimeter. Note: the cable will not disturb your lawn, and it can be
easily detached during mowing.

This is not a suggestion to convert Lucy into a yard ornament, and it
does not negate any training she needs. It will provide a secure
retention method while you are away. Some good rawhide chews would make
a fair diversion.

I spent about 40 minutes grooming a border collie mix at the shelter
yesterday; hoping she will be pretty enough to get adopted. She was so
gentle and appreciative. Her two puppies have a small chance for
adoption. She, even with her vastly improved appearance, has virtually
no chance of life. At least, she will die with some dignity--probably on
Monday.

Kindest regards.


Whatever it takes.
 >> Stay informed about: Knoxville, TN - Sweet Mixed Border Collie for Adoption