Welcome to PetForumz.com!
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t..

 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Animals Rights RSS
Next:  The Great "animal rights" Lie of Omissi..  
Author Message
pearl

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:53 pm
Post subject: SAVING LEVIATHAN [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)

Saving Leviathan
By Captain Paul Watson
Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:45 PM

They say the sea is cold, but the sea contains the hottest blood of all,
and the wildest, the most urgent.
-- D.H. Lawrence, "Whales Weep Not"

The hot blood of the great whales may soon flow freely into the cold
frigid waters of the Southern Oceans as harpoon cannons roar and
the long flensing knives reduce the world's largest intelligent beings
into slabs of toxin-laden meat and fat to be served in sushi bars on
beds of rice, force-fed to children in schools, and marketed to the
public in fast food restaurants.

The fate of the world's whales may be fatally decided this week as
the International Whaling Commission meets in St. Kitts & Nevis in
the Caribbean beginning June 16. Delegates from the Pacific islands
of Tuvalu, the Solomon Islands, and Palau, from the West African
nations of Senegal and the Ivory Coast, and from Cambodia will
be soaking up the sun and sipping tropical drinks on the expense
account of the Japanese whaling delegation.

For these delegates, all expenses are paid by Japan, including the
membership fees to the International Whaling Commission. All
that Japan requires of these nations that they have recruited is
their vote to resume commercial whaling.

Japan has succeeded in bribing enough nations to take control of
the 70 member international whaling regulatory body. They don't
yet have the two-thirds majority required to overturn the global
commercial moratorium on whaling established in 1986, but they
will have the votes to give some legitimacy to their desire to
increase the number of whales they intend to slaughter in the
world's oceans.

The nations that make up the majority are small, but they each
have a vote equal to the larger and more populous nations.
Thus, tiny Tuvalu with a population of only 8,000 negates the
conservation vote of the United States with 300 million people.

In 2001, the IWC adopted a resolution calling for "complete
independence of sovereign countries to decide their own
policies and freely participate in the IWC without undue
interference or coercion from other sovereign countries."

For Japan, a nation that has for years flagrantly disdained the
rules governing whaling, this is just another resolution to be
ignored as they influence the direction of the IWC to go where
they wish to take it.

Last year there were 66 members of the IWC. This year there
are 70 members. Each year Japan recruits additional members
in exchange for foreign aid packages thereby weakening the
conservation efforts of nations that seek to protect the whales
from commercial slaughter.

If Japanese whalers cannot be stopped from pirating the world's
whales, there is a real and present danger that the whales and
humanity may suffer the loss of these magnificent minds in the
water, these largest of living Earthlings.

For over three decades I have fought illegal whaling on the
high seas. These have been dangerous and difficult campaigns
in which we have placed ourselves between the harpoons and
the whales and directly intervened against powerful ships in
hostile whalers that have shot at us, rammed us, and threatened
our lives. We also have been aggressive in our defense of the
whales, all the while exercising the greatest caution to not injure
the killers of the whales while we have attempted to rescue their
victims.

If Japan succeeds in compromising the IWC, there will be an
escalation of confrontations at sea with the inevitable result that
whale defenders may fall victim to the deadly harpoons they are
trying to stop.

But we have no other choice. If the world's governments cannot
overcome Japan and Norway's deceptive and hostile attempt to
take over the IWC, the battles will escalate on the high seas and
conservationists will be forced to risk their lives more than ever
in the quest to save Leviathan from the ruthless extermination at
the hands of humans intent upon their exploitation and destruction.

The slaughter of the great whales has no place in the 21st Century.
It must be ended.


Captain Paul Watson was a co-founder of the Greenpeace
Foundation and the founder and current President of the
International Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.


http://seashepherd.org

__._,_.___

 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
david.35472

External


Since: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 6



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to Defend - the Whales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

bs1999bs.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> I would like to think that, over time, the World community can bring
> change in the attitude of the Japanese community. The question,
> obviously, is do we have the time and the whale numbers to headoff the
> whale demise.

Umm, wakey wakey, but Japan is not the only nation in the world that
wishes to utilise whales sustainably. And even then, many nations that
have no direct interest in utilising whales sustainably respect the
volition of whaling people's to do so.

And again, we are talking about *sustainable* whaling.

No one wants to see the demise of the whales. That is the reality. If
you believe otherwise you are a fool for having bought the propaganda
that Sea Shepherd or some other lying NGO told you.

> The sheer weight of World
> opinion must begin to have significance.

"World opinion" consists largely of developed anglo-saxon nations.

Let's stop being so facist about this and give other cultures the
respect that we would demand for our own.

> It is time to get a World campaign going which will see greater and
> more targeted weight put on the most effective place - it can be done,
> no question. Any moves could complement the brave actions of people
> like Captain Watson of Sea Shepherd.

He is a racist, a liar, a terrorist, and just plain insane.

If you want the world to follow him then there is no hope at all for
this planet.

> Any thoughts good people?

Yes, plenty. But is your brain receptive to anything other than what
you want to hear?

Regards,
David
ex New Zealand

 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Norman

External


Since: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: JAPAN FAILS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE IWC // [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

pearl wrote:

> There
> is a great deal of fishy business going on in Cape Town
> harbour

One would sincerely hope so.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
pearl

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 19) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:28 pm
Post subject: Leaders 'ignore public' on whales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)

Leaders 'ignore public' on whales
By Richard Black
Environment Correspondent,
BBC News website, St Kitts
Friday, 16 June 2006, 01:44 GMT 02:44 UK


The backing given by some developing country governments
for whaling is not supported by their citizens, according to an
opinion poll.

It comes on the eve of the annual meeting of the International
Whaling Commission (IWC) in St Kitts.

The environmental group WWF commissioned research in
nine Pacific and Caribbean countries which usually vote with
pro-whaling Japan.

Japan is hoping to win a vote at the meeting to end a ban on
whale hunting.

There are signs that Japan and its supporters are in the majority
and may be successful.

But according to the WWF poll, in all but one of the Pacific
and Caribbean countries, more people opposed whaling than
supported it.

The poll also showed opposition in a tenth country, the
Marshall Islands, which has joined the IWC within the last
month, reportedly at the behest of Japan.

WWF is urging delegates from these countries to vote according
to the poll results.

"The evidence is overwhelming," said Sue Lieberman, head of
WWF's global species programme.

"Governments are ignoring public opinion and claiming to vote
for whaling on behalf of their citizens."

WWF commissioned surveys in Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica,
Grenada, Kiribati, the Marshall Islands, Palau, St Kitts and Nevis,
St Lucia, the Solomon Islands, and Tuvalu, asking the question:
"Do you think your country should vote for or against a return to
commercial whaling?"

The strongest response came from Antigua and Barbuda, where
79% voted "no" and 14% "yes"; the only country responding in
favour was Grenada, and that by only 1%.

'Principled position'

Anthony Liverpool, Antigua and Barbuda's whaling commissioner,
said his government's voting position at the IWC was not simply
based on whaling, but on a wider goal of ensuring sustainable use
of its own natural resources.

"I really think it's an unfair question to put to the majority of
Antiguans and Barbudans, because Antigua and Barbuda does not
have a history or tradition or culture of whaling; the majority of
our people are not very knowledgeable about whaling," he told
BBC News.

"The government's position at the IWC is a principled position on
the importance of using our marine resources in a manner and at a
rate that will enable that resource to last for generations."

Each national poll involved 200 people in the Pacific states
involved, 300 in the Caribbean nations.

On the edge

WWF released its survey on the eve of what may be the most
important whaling conference in 20 years, since the global
moratorium on hunting "great whales" such as humpbacks and
fin whales came into force.

The early indications are that the pro-whaling bloc led by Japan
will command a majority, though the true balance of power will
emerge only when it is clear how many delegates have come to
the meeting and paid their subscriptions, enabling them to vote.

Within the last month Cambodia, Guatemala, Israel and the
Marshall Islands have joined the IWC, and of those only Israel
looks set to side with the anti-whaling bloc.

Japan's alternate (deputy) whaling commissioner, Joji Morishita,
believes the IWC is heading in the wrong direction; having been
established to regulate whaling, he said, it now seeks to prevent it.

"We believe the IWC is a resource-management organisation,"
he told BBC News, "but this one is not doing its job."

Modern understanding

If it does command a majority, Japan wants to "normalise" the
IWC, which may involve removing programmes looking at whale
welfare and small cetaceans such as dolphins, and will certainly
move it back towards its original purpose of regulating
commercial whaling.

"It's exactly the same as the conservation and management of
any other fisheries or wildlife resources," said Mr Morishita.

"It's fine for some countries to have a special animal or to see
some animal as sacred, but it's not correct to impose that way
of thinking on other countries; we have no logical reason to treat
whales differently from the rest of the animal kingdom."

Conservation groups and the anti-whaling bloc of countries,
which numbers Australia and New Zealand among its most
vocal members, maintain that public opinion and science have
moved on, and the IWC, by focussing on conservation, is
reflecting the public will and modern understanding of the
population status and sentience of whales.

"Since many years, a quarter of a century ago, things have
changed - it's no longer a whaling club," said Leah Garces
of the World Society for the Protection of Animals (WSPA).

"This is a club where we're talking about the conservation,
the welfare, the management of whales in a non-lethal manner
in a way which will protect them for future generations."

If Japan gets its way when voting begins, it may not be such
a club for much longer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5085706.stm

Guide to whale species
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/guides/456900/456973/html/nn1page1.stm
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
pearl

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 20) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:31 pm
Post subject: JAPAN FAILS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE IWC // [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)

JAPAN FAILS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE IWC //
Sea Shepherd Shames Greenpeace into Returning to the
Southern Ocean // Update on the Farley Mowat

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Paul Watson
Sent: Jun 16, 2006 4:18 PM

JAPAN FAILS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE IWC

Whale Conservationists are smiling today as the International
Whaling Commission meeting opened.

The Japanese have failed again this year in their aggressive
effort to buy votes to control the agenda of the International
Whaling Commission.

They did not succeed in getting all their puppet nations to
show up or vote for their pro-whaling initiatives.

The whales have won over the whalers for another year.

At the first vote of the IWC meeting in St. Kitts & Nevis
the Japanese motioned for a discussion on conservation of
small cetaceans to be struck from the agenda. The Japanese
motion was defeated 32 to 30

Japan then motioned for a secret ballot to decide issues
hoping that nations would vote in favor of whaling if they
were anonymous. That motion failed 33 to 30.

It does not appear that Japan, Norway and Iceland can
muscle the required majority votes to control the 70 member
International Whaling Commission.

A couple of member nations did not show. Israel joined the
IWC as a pro-whale conservation vote and some members
leaning towards Japan have been swayed by their own citizens
who lean in favor of the whales over the bribes of the whalers.

"This is great news for the whales," said Captain Paul Watson.
"Japan will not make any gains this year at the IWC and for
another year at least the whales are safe on paper under the law.
However the renegade illegal activities of Japan and Norway will
continue and once again we must voyage to the remote and
hostile waters of the Southern Oceans to search out and stop
the illegal slaughter. Japan's failure to control the IWC keeps
the legal credibility for our intervention solidly in our court. Once
again we will be hunting criminal whalers in Antarctic waters."

Japan has responded to the failure to muster the votes in a very
childlike manner. Jouji Morishita, the director of International
negotiations on whaling for the Japanese Fisheries Agency said
Japan may decide to pull out of the IWC unless the ban on
commercial whaling is overturned.


Sea Shepherd Shames Greenpeace into Returning to the
Southern Ocean

In February, Greenpeace declared they would not be returning
to the Southern Oceans to oppose illegal Japanese whaling.

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society publicly chastised
Greenpeace for retreating from the campaign. On February 20,
2005 Sea Shepherd posted the online story entitled:
Greenpeace to Abandon Whales in Antarctica - Sea Shepherd
Will Battle Whalers Alone in Antarctica in 2006/2007

Link:
http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_060220_1.html

Greenpeace did not respond. Sea Shepherd wrote many
e-mails to Greenpeace demanding that they use the funds
they were raising to oppose whaling to send their ships back
to Antarctica.

Today Greenpeace changed their mind, "We're going back
to the Southern Ocean to oppose the hunt. What are
anti-whaling nations going to do to stop the hunt?" said
Greenpeace spokesperson Shayne Rattenbury.

"This is good news for the whales," said Captain Paul
Watson. "The more ships and the more opposition down
in those waters against illegal whaling, the better it is for the
whales. I just hope that Greenpeace will more aggressive
this time around. The world has seen enough video clips of
whales being slaughtered. These outlaw whalers must be
blockaded and stopped from committing their crimes."

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society approached
Greenpeace in June 2005 with a request to work in
partnership to jointly oppose Japanese whaling in the
Southern Oceans. Greenpeace refused to communicate
with Sea Shepherd and took the position that Sea Shepherd
crews were overly aggressive towards whaling.

"I was hoping we could play good policeman and bad
policeman with the whalers," said Captain Watson.
"Greenpeace told us they were not interested in cooperation
and did not support our tactics of directly interfering with
the killing of whales, preferring to "bear witness" to the
killing to report it to the world."

Despite the fact that Greenpeace refuses to communicate
or cooperate with the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society
the fact remains that anyone opposed to whaling is an ally,
like it or not to Sea Shepherd.

"Once again, I am reaching out to Greenpeace, an
organization that I co-founded with the request to work
together with Sea Shepherd." Said Captain Watson. "I
suspect I will once again be ignored but I guess there is
no harm in asking although it troubles me that this group
that I helped to create has no time for cooperation with us."

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society will be sending
two ships and a helicopter and numerous small boats to the
Southern Ocean to once again intervene against illegal
Japanese whaling. The whaling season will begin in
December 2006 with the Japanese targeting over 1,000
whales in the waters off the coast of Antarctica


Update on the Farley Mowat's Escape from Cape Town

The Farley Mowat has successfully departed South Africa
and was over 200 miles from Cape Town as of 2400 Hours
on June 16. The seas are calm and the ship is making good
time. There has been no reports or comments from the
South African authorities. One reporter asked Captain Paul
Watson what and how he knew of the trans-shipment of
whale meat from Cape Town.

"You know when they force your ship into detainment in
the sleaziest section of the harbor and keep you there for
five months, there is a great deal of sleazy information to be
had along with other discomforts. Not only is there trade in
whale-meat there is also a thriving illegal trade in smuggled
shark fins going on in Cape Town harbor," said Captain
Watson. "I find it strange that the authorities find it a priority
to harass a conservation ship yet can't seem to see the trade
in wildlife contraband going on under their very noses. There
is a great deal of fishy business going on in Cape Town
harbour, I can tell you that. South Africa really needs to
undertake a investigation into the shenanigans going on.
This kind of corruption has no place in a respected nation
like South Africa."


Captain Paul Watson
Founder and President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (1977-
Co-Founder - The Greenpeace Foundation (1972)
Co-Founder - Greenpeace International (1979)
Director of the Sierra Club USA (2003-2006)
Director - The Farley Mowat Institute
Director - www.harpseals.org
Director - Ocean Outfall Group of California
Advisory Board Member - Telluride Mountain Film Festival
Advisory Board Member - The Animals Voice Magazine

Whom when I asked from what place he came,
And how he hight, himselfe he did ycleepe,
The Shepheard of the Ocean by Name,
And said he came far from
the main-sea deepe.
- Edmund Spenser
A.C.E. 1590

www.Seashepherd.org
....
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
david.35472

External


Since: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 6



(Msg. 21) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to Defend - the Whales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

Ernest Schaal wrote:
> in article 1150621774.013402.197490.RemoveThis@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
> tokyo at david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 6:09 PM:
>
> > Ernest, you show again that you are grossly underdone on this topic.
> > One should be forgiven for questioning if you aren't just making up
> > everything you say, for it illustrates little understanding of
> > anything.
>
> I assume you haven't heard the latest news.

I was watching the meeting live. Were you?

> "The proposal to allow fishermen in Taiji, a coastal community in southeast
> Japan, to hunt minke whales went down to defeat 31-30.

There were also abstentions from at least 3 nations that most
definitely support the principle of sustainable use.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
david.35472

External


Since: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 6



(Msg. 22) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to Defend - the Whales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ernest Schaal wrote:
> in article 1150627440.532579.271710.RemoveThis@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
> tokyo at david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 7:44 PM:
>
> >
> > Ernest Schaal wrote:
> >> in article 1150621774.013402.197490.RemoveThis@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
> >> tokyo at david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 6:09 PM:
> >>
> >>> Ernest, you show again that you are grossly underdone on this topic.
> >>> One should be forgiven for questioning if you aren't just making up
> >>> everything you say, for it illustrates little understanding of
> >>> anything.
> >>
> >> I assume you haven't heard the latest news.
> >
> > I was watching the meeting live. Were you?
>
> No, but I did follow the news on the internet.

You ought to watch it live. But then, I guess you don't have as much
interest in whaling as do others.

If you were to watch, you'll find it interesting to see the differences
in the actual proceedings and the way that they are later reported in
the western media.

For example, this morning, prior to the vote on Japan's coastal
whaling, Joji Morishita told the delegates that Japan was happy that
the vote was not secret, as the people of Taiji and Japan would like to
know which nations supported them, and which nations did not.

Later, one media report noted that the sequence of events was the
reverse, trying to give the impression that Japan was very angry and
threatening revenge against the 4 nations that chose to abstain on the
vote.

I recommend that you watch the proceedings live. This is the best way
to get an accurate and complete understanding of what is going on.

You'll also hear the opinions of delegates from the so-called "bribed"
countries, first hand.

You'd struggle to keep a straight face while making such allegations
after hearing people such as Cedric Liburd, Joanne Massiah, and other
delegates speak.

> >> "The proposal to allow fishermen in Taiji, a coastal community in southeast
> >> Japan, to hunt minke whales went down to defeat 31-30.
> >
> > There were also abstentions from at least 3 nations that most
> > definitely support the principle of sustainable use.
>
> Their abstentions show that their support of the principle of sustainable
> use is less than definite.

Their abstentions were not because they do not support the principle of
sustainable use.

As I noted, even some anti-whaling nations would have been prepared to
support Japan in exchange for concessions on their rights under the
ICRW. Of course, Japan could not accept any proposal to renounce it's
rights, however.

> Japan tries hard to use grant money to buy votes and failed, again.

Um, where do you get off the bus?

You make an argument that Japan is buying votes / bribing to gain a
majority by stealth, then when they don't get the majority you claim
that their tactics failed.

Why not just accept that bribery isn't going on, and that they failed
to convince enough nations to support their proposal?

You didn't even watch the meeting for goodness sake.

Anyway - if you want to believe the pooh of the western media is pure
white, then that's fine by me.

> Japan
> isn't the first country to buy votes for things they want, the US has also
> tried, with limited success.

The US recently recruited Israel to the IWC, but like Japan, thinking
that there was a link with the aid that Israel receives from the US is
silly.

Friendly nations support each other on matters of common interest. This
is the reality of international politics.

Interesting in Israel's case though, is that they do not even have a
formal whaling policy, yet have joined the IWC just to vote with the
US.

> All in all, the defeat one more time shows that world support is not as
> strong for your position as you claim.

I have only claimed that a minority of nations at the IWC opposed
Japan's proposal, and questioned YOUR use of the term "world opinion".

The fact is that only 31 of 70 nations opposed Japan's proposal to
allow it's whalers a small catch of abundant minke whales from the
north pacific 'O' stock in it's own 200 nm EEZ.

Japan of course needs 75% support to achieve this. The real reason for
many nations refusing the support is because their politicians fear the
headline of "our country supports Japanese whale slaugheters in
commercial hunt". The facts, science, and human rights are of no
concern - just the political result.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ernest Schaal

External


Since: Jun 10, 2006
Posts: 28



(Msg. 23) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:54 am
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hello David,

I read your message and a few of your comments were so outrageous that they
deserve comment.

in article 1150540450.806974.142890.RemoveThis@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
tokyo at david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote on 6/17/06 7:34 PM:

>
> bs1999bs.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I would like to think that, over time, the World community can bring
>> change in the attitude of the Japanese community. The question,
>> obviously, is do we have the time and the whale numbers to headoff the
>> whale demise.
>
> Umm, wakey wakey, but Japan is not the only nation in the world that
> wishes to utilise whales sustainably. And even then, many nations that
> have no direct interest in utilising whales sustainably respect the
> volition of whaling people's to do so.

"Many" nations? Which nations (excluding the ones that the Japanese are
actively buying their votes)? Even among the ones that sold their votes to
Japan, which ones have populations that "sustainably respect the volition of
whaling people's to do so"?

>
> And again, we are talking about *sustainable* whaling.
>
> No one wants to see the demise of the whales. That is the reality. If
> you believe otherwise you are a fool for having bought the propaganda
> that Sea Shepherd or some other lying NGO told you.

"Lying NGO"? Anyone that disagrees with you is a liar? Any scientist that
comes up with different conclusions than the ones you believe is a liar? Is
that the new definition of the term "lying," disagreeing with your opinions?

>> The sheer weight of World
>> opinion must begin to have significance.
>
> "World opinion" consists largely of developed anglo-saxon nations.
>
> Let's stop being so facist about this and give other cultures the
> respect that we would demand for our own.

WOW! Where did you come up with that?

Clearly you have issues with developed Anglo-Saxon nations, but you have let
your bias distort the term "world opinion."

To assume that "World opinion" consists largely of developed Anglo-Saxon
nations is racist and condescending it that it dismisses much of the opinion
of the rest of the world.

Just because you don't like what world opinion is on a particular matter is
no excuse for pretending that it is largely of developed Anglo-Saxon
nations.

"World opinion" is not monolithic, but it is real, and it has impact.

>> It is time to get a World campaign going which will see greater and
>> more targeted weight put on the most effective place - it can be done,
>> no question. Any moves could complement the brave actions of people
>> like Captain Watson of Sea Shepherd.
>
> He is a racist, a liar, a terrorist, and just plain insane.
>
> If you want the world to follow him then there is no hope at all for
> this planet.

Racist, liar, terrorist, insane.. Four different derogatory terms in one ad
hominem attack.

Disagreeing with your particular biases doesn't make a person a racist, nor
does it make a person a liar, nor does it make a person a terrorist, nor
does it make him insane.

>> Any thoughts good people?
>
> Yes, plenty. But is your brain receptive to anything other than what
> you want to hear?

Is your brain receptive to anything other than what you want to hear?
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ernest Schaal

External


Since: Jun 10, 2006
Posts: 28



(Msg. 24) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

in article 87slm3qpvy.fld DeleteThis @apaflo.com, Floyd L. Davidson at floyd DeleteThis @apaflo.com
wrote on 6/18/06 9:16 AM:

> Ernest Schaal <eschaal DeleteThis @max.hi-ho.ne.jp> wrote:
>>>> It is time to get a World campaign going which will see greater and
>>>> more targeted weight put on the most effective place - it can be done,
>>>> no question. Any moves could complement the brave actions of people
>>>> like Captain Watson of Sea Shepherd.
>>>
>>> He is a racist, a liar, a terrorist, and just plain insane.
>>>
>>> If you want the world to follow him then there is no hope at all for
>>> this planet.
>>
>> Racist, liar, terrorist, insane.. Four different derogatory terms in one ad
>> hominem attack.
>
> And in fact that barely nips the surface of what is wrong with
> Watson.
>
> If nothing else means anything to you, Watson is a out and out
> racist scum, and should be totally ignored for that one single
> reason if none other existed.
>
>> Disagreeing with your particular biases doesn't make a person a racist, nor
>> does it make a person a liar, nor does it make a person a terrorist, nor
>> does it make him insane.
>
> But on the other hand Watson *is* all of those things. There is
> little doubt of it, and it is public knowledge, and the evidence
> is abundant. Why people like you continue to ignore what he
> does and the reasons he does it, is beyond my imagination.

I must admit I knew nothing about Watson or Sea Shepherd before the charges
of racism made recently, so I did a Google search of the terms "Watson Sea
Shepherd racist," and I quickly discovered that Watson's "crime" was being
against whaling when some Alaskan Indians are for it.

What I also found was a LOT of hyperbole on the Internet by the adamant
pro-whaling supporters that equate racism with any disagreement with the
notion that the Indians (and the Japanese and other whaling groups) have a
cultural RIGHT to whaling.

One of the more revealing arguments made by the adamant pro-whaling
supporters is their argument that Watson MUST be a racist because known
racist organizations also are against the notion that the Indians have a
cultural RIGHT to whaling. What is so revealing about this argument is what
it says about the adamant pro-whaling supporters.

Basically, what they are saying is that if any disreputable organization
shares your views on any matter, then you must be disreputable. The
Communists in the States were against the Nazis after Germany invaded
Russia, but that does not mean that every serviceman of the US military who
fought the Nazis was a communist.

If Davidson, or any of the adamant pro-whaling supporter, has any REAL proof
of actual racism, or lying, or terrorism, or insanity, please post it. But
if your "proof" is as weak and as artificial as the nonsense I saw in the
Google search results, don't bother.

Mere disagreement with your position is not racism, nor lying, nor
terrorism, nor insanity, even it the disagreement is strongly stated.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ernest Schaal

External


Since: Jun 10, 2006
Posts: 28



(Msg. 25) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Floyd,

I must admit I don't trust you very much, based upon your previous posts,
but I want to make clear that the URLs that you post I will look at. If the
URL is to a long page, please be specific as to what part of that page you
think supports your position.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ernest Schaal

External


Since: Jun 10, 2006
Posts: 28



(Msg. 26) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

in article 1150627440.532579.271710 RemoveThis @f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
tokyo at david.35472 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 7:44 PM:

>
> Ernest Schaal wrote:
>> in article 1150621774.013402.197490 RemoveThis @r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
>> tokyo at david.35472 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 6:09 PM:
>>
>>> Ernest, you show again that you are grossly underdone on this topic.
>>> One should be forgiven for questioning if you aren't just making up
>>> everything you say, for it illustrates little understanding of
>>> anything.
>>
>> I assume you haven't heard the latest news.
>
> I was watching the meeting live. Were you?

No, but I did follow the news on the internet.

>
>> "The proposal to allow fishermen in Taiji, a coastal community in southeast
>> Japan, to hunt minke whales went down to defeat 31-30.
>
> There were also abstentions from at least 3 nations that most
> definitely support the principle of sustainable use.

Their abstentions show that their support of the principle of sustainable
use is less than definite.

Japan tries hard to use grant money to buy votes and failed, again. Japan
isn't the first country to buy votes for things they want, the US has also
tried, with limited success.

All in all, the defeat one more time shows that world support is not as
strong for your position as you claim.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ernest Schaal

External


Since: Jun 10, 2006
Posts: 28



(Msg. 27) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

in article 1150631766.642638.288470 DeleteThis @g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
tokyo at david.35472 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 8:56 PM:

>
> Ernest Schaal wrote:
>> in article 1150627440.532579.271710 DeleteThis @f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
>> tokyo at david.35472 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 7:44 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> Ernest Schaal wrote:
>>>> in article 1150621774.013402.197490 DeleteThis @r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, david @
>>>> tokyo at david.35472 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 6:09 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> Ernest, you show again that you are grossly underdone on this topic.
>>>>> One should be forgiven for questioning if you aren't just making up
>>>>> everything you say, for it illustrates little understanding of
>>>>> anything.
>>>>
>>>> I assume you haven't heard the latest news.
>>>
>>> I was watching the meeting live. Were you?
>>
>> No, but I did follow the news on the internet.
>
> You ought to watch it live. But then, I guess you don't have as much
> interest in whaling as do others.
>
> If you were to watch, you'll find it interesting to see the differences
> in the actual proceedings and the way that they are later reported in
> the western media.

The Japan Times is "Western Media"? I think you need a refresher course in
geography.

>
> For example, this morning, prior to the vote on Japan's coastal
> whaling, Joji Morishita told the delegates that Japan was happy that
> the vote was not secret, as the people of Taiji and Japan would like to
> know which nations supported them, and which nations did not.

If they are so happy, why did they want the secret ballot in the first
place?

> Later, one media report noted that the sequence of events was the
> reverse, trying to give the impression that Japan was very angry and
> threatening revenge against the 4 nations that chose to abstain on the
> vote.

Here is one such quote:

"Four countries that were expected to side with Japan _ China, South Korea,
the Solomon Islands, and Kiribati _ unexpectedly abstained, prompting a
rebuke from Joji Morishita, the Japanese delegation's spokesman: 'We are
glad this is not a secret vote. Japan will remember which countries
supported this proposal and which countries said no'."

That was from the Mainichi Daily News website! So much for your charge that
the Western media is trying to give the impression of that Japan was very
angry and threatening revenge.

> I recommend that you watch the proceedings live. This is the best way
> to get an accurate and complete understanding of what is going on.
>
> You'll also hear the opinions of delegates from the so-called "bribed"
> countries, first hand.
>
> You'd struggle to keep a straight face while making such allegations
> after hearing people such as Cedric Liburd, Joanne Massiah, and other
> delegates speak.

I am sure your bias for whaling clouded your perceptions of what you saw.

>
>>>> "The proposal to allow fishermen in Taiji, a coastal community in southeast
>>>> Japan, to hunt minke whales went down to defeat 31-30.
>>>
>>> There were also abstentions from at least 3 nations that most
>>> definitely support the principle of sustainable use.
>>
>> Their abstentions show that their support of the principle of sustainable
>> use is less than definite.
>
> Their abstentions were not because they do not support the principle of
> sustainable use.
>
> As I noted, even some anti-whaling nations would have been prepared to
> support Japan in exchange for concessions on their rights under the
> ICRW. Of course, Japan could not accept any proposal to renounce it's
> rights, however.

And what source of information do you have that shows that support, when
they abstained?

>> Japan tries hard to use grant money to buy votes and failed, again.
>
> Um, where do you get off the bus?
>
> You make an argument that Japan is buying votes / bribing to gain a
> majority by stealth, then when they don't get the majority you claim
> that their tactics failed.
>
> Why not just accept that bribery isn't going on, and that they failed
> to convince enough nations to support their proposal?

Because the bribery is so well known. It even appeared in the Japan Times
(that's where I read about it first.)

> You didn't even watch the meeting for goodness sake.

You watched the meeting and let you seem to see support that wasn't there.
>
> Anyway - if you want to believe the pooh of the western media is pure
> white, then that's fine by me.

The Japan Times (the only paper I subscribe to) is hardly white.

>
>> Japan
>> isn't the first country to buy votes for things they want, the US has also
>> tried, with limited success.
>
> The US recently recruited Israel to the IWC, but like Japan, thinking
> that there was a link with the aid that Israel receives from the US is
> silly.
>
> Friendly nations support each other on matters of common interest. This
> is the reality of international politics.
>
> Interesting in Israel's case though, is that they do not even have a
> formal whaling policy, yet have joined the IWC just to vote with the
> US.

So when Japan recruits non-whaling countries, it is because the countries
REALLY believe in Japan's position and had nothing to do with all the grant
they got, but Israel's joining could only be because of US bribery?

Get real.
>
>> All in all, the defeat one more time shows that world support is not as
>> strong for your position as you claim.
>
> I have only claimed that a minority of nations at the IWC opposed
> Japan's proposal, and questioned YOUR use of the term "world opinion".
>
> The fact is that only 31 of 70 nations opposed Japan's proposal to
> allow it's whalers a small catch of abundant minke whales from the
> north pacific 'O' stock in it's own 200 nm EEZ.
>
> Japan of course needs 75% support to achieve this. The real reason for
> many nations refusing the support is because their politicians fear the
> headline of "our country supports Japanese whale slaugheters in
> commercial hunt". The facts, science, and human rights are of no
> concern - just the political result.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Ernest Schaal

External


Since: Jun 10, 2006
Posts: 28



(Msg. 28) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

in article 1150632534.173555.7460 DeleteThis @i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, david @
tokyo at david.35472 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 9:08 PM:

>
> Ernest Schaal wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> In addition to your normal pro-whaling hyperbole, this time you actually
>> gave a link to an article supporting your position. I checked it out, and it
>> turned out to be a letter by Nan Rice from the "Save the Whales Campaign" at
>> Fish Hoek.
>
> Why did I have to post the link though?

Because your previous messages made me doubt your veracity.

> Why do you I assume I was making it up?

Because your previous messages made me doubt your veracity.

> Is it because I support Japan that you think I am some crazed
> apologist?


No, it is because your previous messages made me doubt your veracity.

> Please - take care of your reputation.

Specifically, the thing that made me first really doubt you veracity was
your comments about the popularity of whale meat in Japan. One of the
articles in the Japan Times database is "Whale meat inventory up amid
sluggish consumption" dated Jan. 29, 2006. Unfortunately, you need an
account to get to it, but you can verify that the article exists by going to
the Japan Times site and entering "whale meat" in the search field.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Skokkie

External


Since: Jun 18, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 29) Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:24 pm
Post subject: Re: JAPAN FAILS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE IWC // [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

"Norman" <inchanga RemoveThis @telus.net> wrote in message
news:1150551826.435737.70650@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> pearl wrote:
>
>> There
>> is a great deal of fishy business going on in Cape Town
>> harbour
>
> One would sincerely hope so.
>
This article must have been a complete fabrication because we read very
little about it in our newspapers.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
david.35472

External


Since: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 6



(Msg. 30) Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:39 am
Post subject: Re: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares to Defend - the Whales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

Ernest Schaal wrote:
> in article 1150632534.173555.7460.DeleteThis@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, david @
> tokyo at david.35472.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote on 6/18/06 9:08 PM:
>
> >
> > Ernest Schaal wrote:
> >> David,
> >>
> >> In addition to your normal pro-whaling hyperbole, this time you actually
> >> gave a link to an article supporting your position. I checked it out, and it
> >> turned out to be a letter by Nan Rice from the "Save the Whales Campaign" at
> >> Fish Hoek.
> >
> > Why did I have to post the link though?
>
> Because your previous messages made me doubt your veracity.

OK. You have demonstrated that you think you know better. Fair enough.

> > Please - take care of your reputation.
>
> Specifically, the thing that made me first really doubt you veracity was
> your comments about the popularity of whale meat in Japan. One of the
> articles in the Japan Times database is "Whale meat inventory up amid
> sluggish consumption" dated Jan. 29, 2006.

It's obviously a nonsense report (if you have the background
knowledge).

The stockpile is only at 6,000 tonnes right now, and 3,400 tonnes of
that is meat from JARPA II, just on sale a few days back. 2,600 tonnes
were therefore in the stockpile until just a few weeks ago. Of that,
more than half would have been from the JARPN programme in the north
pacific from late last year.

4,000 tonnes or thereabouts were consumed in Japan last year, before
the expanded JARPA programme commenced. The stockpile peaked at 4,800
tonnes last year.

This year I predict that demand will not be too far behind the
increased level of supply due to JARPA II.

Worth noting, that the stockpile was 22,000 tonnes in 1980, before the
commercial moratorium was imposed.

> Unfortunately, you need an
> account to get to it, but you can verify that the article exists by going to
> the Japan Times site and entering "whale meat" in the search field.

That's ok, I'm sure that article is there - lots of western news
sources report such nonsense. They get it from the anti-whaling sites
like WDCS.
 >> Stay informed about: Japan Declares Bloody War on - and Sea Shepherd Prepares t.. 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Animals Rights All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 2 of 3

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]