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Jack Dempsey color changes???????

 
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Cookie

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Since: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 43



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:27 pm
Post subject: Jack Dempsey color changes???????
Archived from groups: rec>aquaria>freshwater>cichlids (more info?)

I bought a Jack Dempsey cichlid from PetsMart last week. At the store,
he was yellow with a black lateral line. When the lady netted him, his
yellow changed to dark gray, and he got black bands on him. Looks just
like a convict. I have had him for a week, and he still hasn't changed
back to yellow. I know that dempseys change color, but why isn't he
changing back? He looks healthy and has a good appetite. TIA


Cookie

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jp

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Since: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:01 am
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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A yellow JD eh? Sounds more like a Salvini you have there. He/she will color
back up with time. Males will turn mostly grey with maturity and females
stay yellow with a red spot on the belly if that's what you have. Could be a
number of things though....good luck.

--
jp
"Cookie" wrote in message

>I bought a Jack Dempsey cichlid from PetsMart last week. At the store,
> he was yellow with a black lateral line. When the lady netted him, his
> yellow changed to dark gray, and he got black bands on him. Looks just
> like a convict. I have had him for a week, and he still hasn't changed
> back to yellow. I know that dempseys change color, but why isn't he
> changing back? He looks healthy and has a good appetite. TIA
>
>
> Cookie

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Charlie Durand

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Since: Feb 02, 2004
Posts: 10



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I was at a store just yesterday and they had a yellow fish that I didn't
recognize. It sort of looked like a jack demsey though. Sure enough, the
tank label said "gold jack dempsey".

Probably another hybrid.

"jp" wrote in message

> A yellow JD eh? Sounds more like a Salvini you have there. He/she will
color
> back up with time. Males will turn mostly grey with maturity and females
> stay yellow with a red spot on the belly if that's what you have. Could be
a
> number of things though....good luck.
>
> --
> jp
> "Cookie" wrote in message
>
> >I bought a Jack Dempsey cichlid from PetsMart last week. At the store,
> > he was yellow with a black lateral line. When the lady netted him, his
> > yellow changed to dark gray, and he got black bands on him. Looks just
> > like a convict. I have had him for a week, and he still hasn't changed
> > back to yellow. I know that dempseys change color, but why isn't he
> > changing back? He looks healthy and has a good appetite. TIA
> >
> >
> > Cookie
>
>
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Cookie

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Since: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 43



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Charlie Durand" wrote in message ...
> I was at a store just yesterday and they had a yellow fish that I didn't
> recognize. It sort of looked like a jack demsey though. Sure enough, the
> tank label said "gold jack dempsey".
>
> Probably another hybrid.
>


So, it is a JD? It has a spot (just like that on oscars) at the base
of the tail. It has some irridescent blue/green spots on the head and
fins.


--Cookie
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jp

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Since: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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even worse.....more hybrids....:(

--
jp
"Charlie Durand" wrote in message

>I was at a store just yesterday and they had a yellow fish that I didn't
> recognize. It sort of looked like a jack demsey though. Sure enough, the
> tank label said "gold jack dempsey".
>
> Probably another hybrid.
>
> "jp" wrote in message
>
>> A yellow JD eh? Sounds more like a Salvini you have there. He/she will
> color
>> back up with time. Males will turn mostly grey with maturity and females
>> stay yellow with a red spot on the belly if that's what you have. Could
>> be
> a
>> number of things though....good luck.
>>
>> --
>> jp
>> "Cookie" wrote in message
>>
>> >I bought a Jack Dempsey cichlid from PetsMart last week. At the store,
>> > he was yellow with a black lateral line. When the lady netted him, his
>> > yellow changed to dark gray, and he got black bands on him. Looks just
>> > like a convict. I have had him for a week, and he still hasn't changed
>> > back to yellow. I know that dempseys change color, but why isn't he
>> > changing back? He looks healthy and has a good appetite. TIA
>> >
>> >
>> > Cookie
>>
>>
>
>
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jp

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Since: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Cookie,
can you get a picture of it and put it up on a site? Think it would be
easier to figure out what it might be.

--
jp
"Cookie" wrote in message

> "Charlie Durand" wrote in message
> ...
>> I was at a store just yesterday and they had a yellow fish that I didn't
>> recognize. It sort of looked like a jack demsey though. Sure enough,
>> the
>> tank label said "gold jack dempsey".
>>
>> Probably another hybrid.
>>
>
>
> So, it is a JD? It has a spot (just like that on oscars) at the base
> of the tail. It has some irridescent blue/green spots on the head and
> fins.
>
>
> --Cookie
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Mark Stone

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Since: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 30



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:44 am
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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(Cookie) wrote in message ...

> So, it is a JD? It has a spot (just like that on oscars) at the base
> of the tail. It has some irridescent blue/green spots on the head and
> fins.
>
>
> --Cookie

Hey Cookie -- Look closely at the dorsal fin (the fin on his/her
back). If it's a Dempsey the upper edge of the fin is bright red. If
not, then you've encountered a confused LFS. To my knowledge, this red
strip is always present.

--Mark
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Cookie

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Since: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 43



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"jp" wrote in message ...
> Cookie,
> can you get a picture of it and put it up on a site? Think it would be
> easier to figure out what it might be.


jp,

Sure. I am at work now, but when I get home, I will do that.

--Cookie
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Cichlidiot

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Since: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Charlie Durand wrote:
> I was at a store just yesterday and they had a yellow fish that I didn't
> recognize. It sort of looked like a jack demsey though. Sure enough, the
> tank label said "gold jack dempsey".

> Probably another hybrid.

Not so fast, let's not jump on the "probably another hybrid" bandwagon
without at least a little consideration to the fact that it could be a
legitimate color morph. True, lots of hybrids out there, but don't dismiss
a possibility out of hand without some evidence. It's just not scientific.

Now, a Google Groups search on "gold jack dempsey" (with quotes) returns
exactly two threads. This one and one from 1997 (I'd post the link but
Google links are long and my newsreader complains about them). The 1997
thread claims it is a color morph. Not authoratative of course, but there
was less a trend to hybridization back then as there is now IMO.
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Charlie Durand

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Since: Feb 02, 2004
Posts: 10



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Ok, I may have used the wrong term but aren't "color morphs" the result of
in-breeding more anything else?

That's how they get all the different "strains" of Discus afterall.

How come we're not complaining about the inbreeding?

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message

> Charlie Durand wrote:
> > I was at a store just yesterday and they had a yellow fish that I didn't
> > recognize. It sort of looked like a jack demsey though. Sure enough,
the
> > tank label said "gold jack dempsey".
>
> > Probably another hybrid.
>
> Not so fast, let's not jump on the "probably another hybrid" bandwagon
> without at least a little consideration to the fact that it could be a
> legitimate color morph. True, lots of hybrids out there, but don't dismiss
> a possibility out of hand without some evidence. It's just not scientific.
>
> Now, a Google Groups search on "gold jack dempsey" (with quotes) returns
> exactly two threads. This one and one from 1997 (I'd post the link but
> Google links are long and my newsreader complains about them). The 1997
> thread claims it is a color morph. Not authoratative of course, but there
> was less a trend to hybridization back then as there is now IMO.
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Cichlidiot

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Since: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Charlie Durand wrote:
> Ok, I may have used the wrong term but aren't "color morphs" the result of
> in-breeding more anything else?

> That's how they get all the different "strains" of Discus afterall.

> How come we're not complaining about the inbreeding?

In-breeding is not by itself a bad technique, although it is an easy to
abuse technique. The biggest danger of in-breeding is the possibility of
introducing genetically predisposed disorders (think about the problems
some types of purebred dogs or cats have), usually caused by having too
little genetic diversity. In the hands of a talented breeder who knows how
to maintain genetic diversity and cull out fry with abnormalities,
in-breeding is a perfectly fine tool to fix a color line.

Also remember that some color morphs with fish are really rather easy to
maintain genetic diversity when it's simple dominant/recessive gene(s)
that control the color differences. Think pink and normal convicts. Pink
is recessive to normal. If you want to introduce some genetic diversity,
breed a pink to a few normals. This will yield fry that look normal, but
carry the pink gene, called heterzygous in genetic terms (homozygous would
have only one type of the gene, all pink or all normal in this case). Then
cross the heterozygous fry back to a pink for approximately 50% pink fry
yield, to heterozygous fry from the other batches for 25% pink fry or to
another set of normals for some additional heterozygous fry (although this
will yield homozygous normal fry as well, so while this has the most
diversity by not breeding back to the original line, it's also the most
tedious because there's no way to tell who has the pink gene and who
doesn't other than by breeding).
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Charlie Durand

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Since: Feb 02, 2004
Posts: 10



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Jack Dempsey color changes??????? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Still, it's messing with a species of fish and losing it's "natural"
appearances.

If we're against hybrids I think we should be against in-breeding as well.

Just my thoughts.

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message

>
> In-breeding is not by itself a bad technique, although it is an easy to
> abuse technique. The biggest danger of in-breeding is the possibility of
> introducing genetically predisposed disorders (think about the problems
> some types of purebred dogs or cats have), usually caused by having too
> little genetic diversity. In the hands of a talented breeder who knows how
> to maintain genetic diversity and cull out fry with abnormalities,
> in-breeding is a perfectly fine tool to fix a color line.
>
> Also remember that some color morphs with fish are really rather easy to
> maintain genetic diversity when it's simple dominant/recessive gene(s)
> that control the color differences. Think pink and normal convicts. Pink
> is recessive to normal. If you want to introduce some genetic diversity,
> breed a pink to a few normals. This will yield fry that look normal, but
> carry the pink gene, called heterzygous in genetic terms (homozygous would
> have only one type of the gene, all pink or all normal in this case). Then
> cross the heterozygous fry back to a pink for approximately 50% pink fry
> yield, to heterozygous fry from the other batches for 25% pink fry or to
> another set of normals for some additional heterozygous fry (although this
> will yield homozygous normal fry as well, so while this has the most
> diversity by not breeding back to the original line, it's also the most
> tedious because there's no way to tell who has the pink gene and who
> doesn't other than by breeding).
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