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Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered ..

  
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TurnagainArm

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Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 33



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:41 pm
Post subject: Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our garage
Archived from groups: rec>pets>birds>pigeons (more info?)
Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our
garage:

We took real good care of them over the winter, providing them with
food and water in the garage. Now, we decided that the best way to get
the two pigeons back to the wild by taking them about 20 miles and
letting them go near other pigeons. I picked a RR bridge that already
has some pigeons around it. To our horror, we found out that these two
pigeons have no social skills and wish to do nothing with other pigeons
that come near our yard. Taking them away without doing some training
would have meant a death sentence for them. We are no longer feeding
them in the garage and making them eat with other pigeons by throwing
out seeds in the open space behind our back fence. The other birds come
to feed and these two finally got hungry enough to join them. Every day
is a little better. We have to watch over them constantly to protect
them from hawks that are attracted to the feeding pigeons. We plan on
doing this for a couple of weeks to train them to eat with other
pigeons and then move them. I sure hope they make it because we think
the world of them.

Our problems with our pigeons made me realize why our great experience
in welfare society has been such a dismal failure. We kept these two
pigeons from having babies during the winter by taking their eggs away
and replacing them with wood eggs. People get fed and housed and their
reproductive rights are guaranteed by law assuring that each successive
generation is less equipped to take care of itself without handouts. We
will take care of our two lovely pigeons and hopefully return them to
the wild where they will live happy pigeon lives for a long time to
come. How do you make the New Orleans welfare masses self productive?
They are not happy with their lives but they are not able to give up
the free food and shelter and just try to take it away from them. At
least, other than paying taxes, that is not my problem.

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JohnD

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Since: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:29 am
Post subject: Re: Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our garage [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Well done for taking care of these pigeons :)

Really, it sounds like they have 'adopted' you and your garage. Would
it be a big problem to let them stay, do their pigeon thing, and eat
with the others?

It is quite possible, even for ferals, to home back to you if you do
take them elsewhere. they know a good thing when they see it :)

JohnD

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TurnagainArm

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Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 33



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:27 am
Post subject: Re: Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our garage [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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JohnD wrote:
> Well done for taking care of these pigeons :)
>
> Really, it sounds like they have 'adopted' you and your garage. Would
> it be a big problem to let them stay, do their pigeon thing, and eat
> with the others?
>
> It is quite possible, even for ferals, to home back to you if you do
> take them elsewhere. they know a good thing when they see it :)
>
> JohnD

I only wish that it would be as simple as that. They do not even want
to be around other pigeons and my attempt to feed them with other
pigeons was only partially successful. I have to chase them out of the
garage to make them join the other pigeons that come to fed on the
seeds I put out. What I ended up with is more pigeons that come to feed
and I spend most of my time watching out for hawks. I am retired but
this is no life for me or the pigeons. I would be happy to let them
stay in the garage but they want to have baby pigeons and start
building a nest just as soon as I throw out their nest. The next
generation of pigeons would worry me even more because they would have
absolutely no idea how to fend for themselves. It was very cold here
the past two weeks so I did not dare move them away but it is getting
much nicer now. My planned day of moving them about 20 miles away is
Sunday. I just hope that they make it and do not come back. I suppose,
I just need someone to tell me that everything will be OK with them and
will make it after I move them.
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TurnagainArm

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Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 33



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:17 am
Post subject: Re: Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our garage [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
TurnagainArm.DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> JohnD wrote:
> > Well done for taking care of these pigeons :)
> >
> > Really, it sounds like they have 'adopted' you and your garage. Would
> > it be a big problem to let them stay, do their pigeon thing, and eat
> > with the others?
> >
> > It is quite possible, even for ferals, to home back to you if you do
> > take them elsewhere. they know a good thing when they see it :)
> >
> > JohnD
>
> I only wish that it would be as simple as that. They do not even want
> to be around other pigeons and my attempt to feed them with other
> pigeons was only partially successful. I have to chase them out of the
> garage to make them join the other pigeons that come to fed on the
> seeds I put out. What I ended up with is more pigeons that come to feed
> and I spend most of my time watching out for hawks. I am retired but
> this is no life for me or the pigeons. I would be happy to let them
> stay in the garage but they want to have baby pigeons and start
> building a nest just as soon as I throw out their nest. The next
> generation of pigeons would worry me even more because they would have
> absolutely no idea how to fend for themselves. It was very cold here
> the past two weeks so I did not dare move them away but it is getting
> much nicer now. My planned day of moving them about 20 miles away is
> Sunday. I just hope that they make it and do not come back. I suppose,
> I just need someone to tell me that everything will be OK with them and
> will make it after I move them.

Yesterday, the hawk visited our yard again. It did not get any of the
birds but it was on the ground in front of our garage. This morning, I
took them away in a medium size dog carrier to a place where two RR
bridges are real close to each other. There are also some pigeons
around. I put seeds and a pan of water on the bridge, put the dog
carrier next to it and opened the door. In about 2-3 minutes the male
stepped out, looked around and took off with the female in tow. They
flew away towards a development and after a while I could not see them
any more. The funny thing is that they never even looked at the pigeons
at the nearby RR Bridge. Tomorrow, I take some more seeds there, just
in case they return to the RR Bridge. The only thing helped my worries
for them is that we kept them both in good shape and they flew like
jets. I hope that they do not return because I just do not know what
else I could do. Wishing the best for Potyi and his mate. We love all
animals but these pigeons will always have a special place in our
hearts.
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ef29

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Since: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our garage [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hello Turnagain,
not trying to be rude, but you always ask for advice, but never take
it?
Don't know why you would expect them to stay at some unfamiliar place
with some unfamiliar birds?
Pigeons may flock together at a food source, but that doesn't mean they
always hang out together.
And they only stay at digs of their choice, not just because other
pigeons are there.
Ferals are pretty good at homing, and 20 miles is only light exercise
for them. But who knows........they may get caught by falcons or bad
weather on the way back and get waylayed.
Since you chose to take these birds in as babies, your garage IS their
home, unless or until you force them elsewhere. That is the most secure
and familiar place they have known.
But you are slowly starting to learn that there is much more involved
when you choose to help baby pigeons.%^)
If I recall, Potyi's brother, (or Potyi himself?) has brought back a
mate from the wild, which to me means they/he has already made some
adaptations to living on their own. It is INSTINCTIVE for pigeons to
follow other pigeons when in need, so even if you were their only
source of food from birth, and they were never taught to forage, they
will follow other pigeons and learn to forage.Some of those lessons
only take a day to learn, and they will NOT just sit on some roof
somewhere and die of starvation because you didn't teach them.
Or, you could just keep posting here, and look for sympathy, since you
won't have the gumption to just put your foot down and do what ya gotta
do. Either take care of them, and the responsibility that it entales,
or close the garage and make them do it on their own.
Either way, make a decision.
E-Man
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TurnagainArm

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Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 33



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:32 am
Post subject: Re: Integrating into pigeon society two pigeons that wintered in our garage [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
ef29.TakeThisOut@drexel.edu wrote:
> Hello Turnagain,
> not trying to be rude, but you always ask for advice, but never take
> it?
> Don't know why you would expect them to stay at some unfamiliar place
> with some unfamiliar birds?
> Pigeons may flock together at a food source, but that doesn't mean they
> always hang out together.
> And they only stay at digs of their choice, not just because other
> pigeons are there.
> Ferals are pretty good at homing, and 20 miles is only light exercise
> for them. But who knows........they may get caught by falcons or bad
> weather on the way back and get waylayed.
> Since you chose to take these birds in as babies, your garage IS their
> home, unless or until you force them elsewhere. That is the most secure
> and familiar place they have known.
> But you are slowly starting to learn that there is much more involved
> when you choose to help baby pigeons.%^)
> If I recall, Potyi's brother, (or Potyi himself?) has brought back a
> mate from the wild, which to me means they/he has already made some
> adaptations to living on their own. It is INSTINCTIVE for pigeons to
> follow other pigeons when in need, so even if you were their only
> source of food from birth, and they were never taught to forage, they
> will follow other pigeons and learn to forage.Some of those lessons
> only take a day to learn, and they will NOT just sit on some roof
> somewhere and die of starvation because you didn't teach them.
> Or, you could just keep posting here, and look for sympathy, since you
> won't have the gumption to just put your foot down and do what ya gotta
> do. Either take care of them, and the responsibility that it entales,
> or close the garage and make them do it on their own.
> Either way, make a decision.
> E-Man

I mentioned the 20 miles before I took them away and no one suggested
that it was not far enough. I could have taken them further if I had
known. Potyi came back without his mate the next morning (about 24
hours later). His mate did not. I hope that she found another group of
pigeons and nothing bad happened to her. For some reason, it got
unexpectantly very windy that day. He kept calling for his mate for a
couple of days and then got another one. They are trying to come into
the garage again but we do not let them. We have been fighting them for
the past two days. He and his new mate keep going off to where his mate
lives but Potyi comes back after dark. I do not dare let him stay on
the roof so I let him in. No nesting or day time coming into the garage
is allowed. I found a reasonable "save" place where I put some food out
for the other pigeons and they eat with them. It is temporary only. I
believe that they will eventually go away as no food or water is
provided in the garage. We see Csapi often and he seems to be well
integrated into pigeon society. It is a pretty miserable existence,
living under bridges and getting hit by trucks as they get in and out.
I am not an admirer of nature and the natural order of things. I could
have done a better job.

For the records; it was not I who brought these pigeons home and I was
against taking them into the garage. I built a nice outside cage for
them in the yard with the idea that as they grow up, they will go away.
My advise was ignored and I am the one who is having to fix things.
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