Instant Review, NADAC

Robin Nuttall wrote:

>
>>
>> Here's my only thumbs down:
>> 50 handlers walking Novice, 50 walking Elite, 9 walking Open? Why so
>> few in Open?
>>
>
> I have the same feeling in AKC trials. Whither Art Thou Open? It's
> always the tiniest class, and everybody here seems to treat it like a
> trip to the dentist--necessary to keep your teeth from falling out, but
> to be gotten through as quickly as possible.

Its the same in USDAA here. Very small Advanced classes.
When I was in novice, I always liked working the advanced classes,
nice and quick.

>
> I don't even have any Open legs with Cala, but regardless of when we get
> the title, I'm not planning to move her up to Excellent until she's
> ready--I'm thinking next spring at the earliest. People think I'm nuts
> for wanting to stay in Open, I don't get it.

Heh. I don't really see Bonnie ever getting out of Advanced. But
then I didn't think she'd ever get out of Novice.

Mary W.
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Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:

> People think I'm nuts
> for wanting to stay in Open, I don't get it. Easier
> courses, the dog builds confidence, and it's a lot easier
> to take the time to strategize properly without hundreds of
> people swarming around, sometimes so thickly that you can't
> even see the jump you're trying to plan.

Building confidence is a good point. 5 years ago, when I ran
Rocky in NADAC, I kept him in the same proximate level as he was
in AAC which has mandatory move-ups.

This morning, I was told that NADAC allows higher-level dogs to
return to Novice to complete the cumulative-point titles (like
Superior) which they didn't do the first time round. This, in
addition to handlers accumulating points and staying in Novice
for a long time, probably explains the large number of handlers
in that group. It also explains the quality of handling and dog
performance - I didn't see much of a disparity between the good
Novice teams and the average Elite teams.

Me? If I do more NADAC trials (which I probably will), I'll
move to Open ASAP just to avoid the Novice crowds. Since we
clean-Qed twice in each of the classes we ran, we're just about
there.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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"Rocky" <2dogs.DeleteThis@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri9642D324E85E7australianshepherdca@rocky-dog.com...
>
> Our first Regular round was interesting - I'd put in my chit for
> the Gamble (which we got), but not the Regular: we blew an A-
> Frame contact, but were still 16 seconds ahead of the next
> fastest dog. (I'm not normally competitive, but I was friggin'
> pleased with that run. Not-a-Q, but I consider it the best of
> the weekend.

Congrats!

> Here's my only thumbs down:
> 50 handlers walking Novice, 50 walking Elite, 9 walking Open?
> Why so few in Open?

Who stays in Open? Generalizing from AKC, the leap from Novice to Open is
much greater than the leap from Open to Excellent. Sometimes Open courses
even seem harder.
I see many dogs in Open that were moved up too soon, and they do stay a
while, but otherwise folks seem to move right up into Excellent because the
challenges aren't that much different - maybe an extra discrimination and a
few more obstacles. Pretty much the same for the NADAC Open/Elite courses
I've seen.
My pet peeve has to do with Open, btw, but only involving AKC - the weave
poles. WHY do people move their dogs from Novice when they cannot weave at
all? I wish AKC would start counting refusals at the poles in Novice,
because it is painful to watch these dogs who have no concept of weaving get
lured with a ridiculous dance through one pole, then another, just to get
through the poles "any way you can" and qualify. It is pointless and does
not benefit handlers to have one obstacle that you can basically cheat your
way through without any fault and get a 100 score, especially when you have
to do the obstacle correctly at the next level. Hmph. Can you tell I've been
scribing Open and Novice recently??

Christy
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Rocky wrote:
> Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:
>
>
>>People think I'm nuts
>>for wanting to stay in Open, I don't get it. Easier
>>courses, the dog builds confidence, and it's a lot easier
>>to take the time to strategize properly without hundreds of
>>people swarming around, sometimes so thickly that you can't
>>even see the jump you're trying to plan.
>
>
> Building confidence is a good point. 5 years ago, when I ran
> Rocky in NADAC, I kept him in the same proximate level as he was
> in AAC which has mandatory move-ups.

I've known an unfortunate number of really promising young dogs that
were pushed up to Excellent as fast as possible, and who just fell apart
once they were there. Too much, too soon. Too much pressure, too
difficult courses, too much having to deal with owner disappointment
when they don't Q 1-2-3. I stayed in Novice until Cala was running it
clean. Made a dip into Open then actually returned to Novice for awhile.
Now I'm getting very close to being able to Q in Open with her--small
mistakes, mostly mine, and an occasional dropped bar. But to me, this is
the place for us to solidify as a team. Since I'm not in a hurry to get
to Excellent, I don't feel a lot of pressure myself, so I don't put it
on her. We're really progressing in teamwork and her skills are
improving rapidly.

I plan to keep her in Open until she's running clean there on a somewhat
regular basis. Getting all weave entries, doing directionals, not having
wrong courses. No use moving to Excellent if we're still making
mistakes--can't Q with a mistake in Ex, so we may as well be working as
a team before we get there.


>
> Me? If I do more NADAC trials (which I probably will), I'll
> move to Open ASAP just to avoid the Novice crowds. Since we
> clean-Qed twice in each of the classes we ran, we're just about
> there.

Open's a good level, especially in AKC, because courses are a lot closer
to Ex courses but not quite there. Occasionally I get judges who can't
build an Open course well--they take the two end jumps off of Ex and
call it Open. But lately judges are doing a better job with giving a
challenge more than Novice, but not quite Ex. It's a fun level to be in!
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Christy wrote:

> I see many dogs in Open that were moved up too soon, and they do stay a
> while, but otherwise folks seem to move right up into Excellent because the
> challenges aren't that much different - maybe an extra discrimination and a
> few more obstacles. Pretty much the same for the NADAC Open/Elite courses
> I've seen.

Ah, but you can have mistakes in Open and still Q. You can't in
Excellent, and I see way too many handlers really start blaming their
dogs when they hop into Ex and isn't perfect. The pressure to be perfect
for Ex is very real, and some young dogs can't handle it. Besides which,
the Open courses I've been running lately are actually Open
courses--different from Ex, harder than Novice.


> My pet peeve has to do with Open, btw, but only involving AKC - the weave
> poles. WHY do people move their dogs from Novice when they cannot weave at
> all? I wish AKC would start counting refusals at the poles in Novice,
> because it is painful to watch these dogs who have no concept of weaving get
> lured with a ridiculous dance through one pole, then another, just to get
> through the poles "any way you can" and qualify. It is pointless and does
> not benefit handlers to have one obstacle that you can basically cheat your
> way through without any fault and get a 100 score, especially when you have
> to do the obstacle correctly at the next level. Hmph. Can you tell I've been
> scribing Open and Novice recently??


Remember, until the last rule change 3 years ago there were NO weaves in
Novice Standard at all. So we're going from 0 weaves to 6 weaves--better
than nothing. I think a good compromise would be that dogs can be tried
twice, and anything over 2 times is a refusal. I hate.hate.hate handlers
who send their confused and demoralized dogs into the weaves time after
time--sometimes 6 or 8 times--to get those weaves. It's abusive. Of
course I say that and it took me 4 times to get Cala to do weaves last
weekend--they were really stiff and she kept popping. But she adores
weaves and wasn't demoralized by it. Just mad. :)
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"Rocky" <2dogs RemoveThis @rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>
> Our first Regular round was interesting - I'd put in my chit for
> the Gamble (which we got), but not the Regular:

Erm... you don't put in chits for Regular, and if somebody said you
should, they didn't know what they were talking about. The purpose of the
"chit" system, if used (many clubs use different methods for the same
purpose) is to tell the scribe table which two of the four Regular runs you
chose to try for gamble Qs in.
There's no reason to turn in a chit for Regular, because you can Q in all
four runs.

>Here's my only thumbs down:
> 50 handlers walking Novice, 50 walking Elite, 9 walking Open?
> Why so few in Open?

The numbers are a little less skewed than that in most trials, but it's
normal for Open to be the smallest class, and the reasons for it are pretty
simple:
It usually takes a bit longer to move out of Novice, because, well... it's
Novice! Dogs are green, and so are many of the handlers. Plus, more and more
people are doing NADAC, so the Novice classes have grown.
Once people get to Open, they tend to complete titles a bit more quickly
than they do in Novice, and then they move up to Elite.
And once you're in Elite, there's nowhere else to go, so dogs tend to stay
in the class for years... *unless* they move down. However, IME, there are
not very many people moving down, since the majority of people in my area go
for the Superior titles from the beginning.
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From: rhyfelwr RemoveThis @msn.com (Sionnach)

< Plus, more and more people are doing NADAC,|>

Certainly not in our area. It used to be that in order to get into a
NADAC trial, you'd better have an opening day postmark, and even then
you still might not get in. Now, not only do NADAC trials not fill, but
the two largest clubs in my area are strongly considering dumping 1/2 to
all of their NADAC trials for CPE.

Debbie
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Sionnach said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:

>> Our first Regular round was interesting - I'd put in my
>> chit for the Gamble (which we got), but not the Regular:
>
> Erm... you don't put in chits for Regular, and if
> somebody said you
> should, they didn't know what they were talking about.

OK, poor sentence structure on my part. We put in a chit for
the Gamble, got the Gamble (Qed), but didn't Q on the Regular
part of the run.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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Matt wrote:

> OK, poor sentence structure on my part. We put in a chit for
> the Gamble, got the Gamble (Qed), but didn't Q on the Regular
> part of the run.

Ah, ok! On re-read, I can see the sentence also parses that way. <G>

BTW, around here, nobody's actually using "chits"; rather, the gate steward
or an assistant to the gate steward simply has a check-off sheet, gets the
"yes" or "no" from each person during walkthrough time, then takes the sheet
to the score table just before the class starts.

Works very well, especially since at most trials around here, the gate
steward knows nearly everybody in the ring, and can just call to them as
they pass by on walkthrough.
We also tend to do check-in in similar fashion -e.g. by simply looking to
see who's in the ring walking & checking them off, and/or hollering
something like "Hey so-and-so - are you running both dogs?" .
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