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Next: Animals Rights: Google Goo
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:07 pm
Post subject: Ignoring Rudy
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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"Scented Nectar" <me.TakeThisOut@scentednectar.com> wrote in news:lZadnfPLM6pEGHvfRVn-
jg.TakeThisOut@rogers.com:
> "Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1122398399.733973.47500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Scented Nectar wrote:
>> > Get a life
>>
>> You are unoriginal, trite, stale.
>>
>> You also are delusional: you cannot rationally believe that it is
>> "mostly" wrong to kill animals.
>
> I think I've explained it to you
> dozens of times, in dozens of
> ways. I give up. You wouldn't
> understand no matter how
> much I reword it, or how much
> I dumb it down.
>
>
I am of the opinion that he is strictly trolling for effect. Nobody could
possibly be as stupid and ignorant as he presents himself to be.
Why anyone, in their right mind, would want to do such, I simply can't
imagine.
Well, I've put him in my killfile, so that any post I make will be *about
him* in response to other's posts as is this one and that won't be often.
He, simply, isn't worth the effort.
I have found on occasion that ignoring the rantings of trolls and simply
talking about them rather than to them can get the message across. Refusing
to give to them any of the direct attention that they obviously desire can
frustrate them to the point where they will leave. I'm not going to bet on
it, however, since he appears to be dumber than the average troll and, as
long as *anybody* responds to him, it will only encourage him. If
*everybody* would ignore him, it would allow for 'intelligent'
conversations to go on.
David Wright Sr.
--
There are different kinds of interpretations of history and different
schools of philosophy. All of them have contributed something to human
progress, but none of them has been able to give the world a basic
philosophy embracing the whole progress of science and establishing the
life of man upon the abiding foundation of Fact.
Alfred Korzybski, _Manhood of Humanity_(1921) |
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External
Since: Dec 19, 2004
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: Ignoring Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Scented Nectar wrote:
> "David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr.RemoveThis@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns969F99E6EF023nokvamli@213.155.197.138...
>
>>"Scented Nectar" <me.RemoveThis@scentednectar.com> wrote in news:lZadnfPLM6pEGHvfRVn-
>>jg@rogers.com:
>>
>>
>>>"Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1122398399.733973.47500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Scented Nectar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Get a life
>>>>
>>>>You are unoriginal, trite, stale.
>>>>
>>>>You also are delusional: you cannot rationally believe that it is
>>>>"mostly" wrong to kill animals.
>>>
>>>I think I've explained it to you
>>>dozens of times, in dozens of
>>>ways. I give up. You wouldn't
>>>understand no matter how
>>>much I reword it, or how much
>>>I dumb it down.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I am of the opinion that he is strictly trolling for effect. Nobody could
>>possibly be as stupid and ignorant as he presents himself to be.
>
>
> Sometimes I think that and
> sometimes I think he is trying
> to convince himself of the
> crazy things he says. It all
> makes me wonder how
> people who have to interact
> with him in real life put up
> with him.
>
>
>>Why anyone, in their right mind, would want to do such, I simply can't
>>imagine.
>>
>>Well, I've put him in my killfile, so that any post I make will be *about
>>him* in response to other's posts as is this one and that won't be often.
>>He, simply, isn't worth the effort.
>>
>>I have found on occasion that ignoring the rantings of trolls and simply
>>talking about them rather than to them can get the message across.
>
> Refusing
>
>>to give to them any of the direct attention that they obviously desire can
>>frustrate them to the point where they will leave. I'm not going to bet on
>>it, however, since he appears to be dumber than the average troll and, as
>>long as *anybody* responds to him, it will only encourage him. If
>>*everybody* would ignore him, it would allow for 'intelligent'
>>conversations to go on.
>
>
> The only trouble with that is the
> myths he perpetuates. It often
> makes me want to jump in and
> correct him. I'm going to go on
> ignore mode and join in on that
> for the most part, but I might not
> be able to help myself on some
> occasions. :)
>
>
I haven't followed his postings to a great extent. I'll judege for
myself. If he's anti-vegan, ("drink a glass of milk") he should leave.
Bob |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: Ignoring Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Scented Nectar" <me RemoveThis @scentednectar.com> wrote in news:QOmdnZlYOaBrjnrfRVn-
uw RemoveThis @rogers.com:
(snip)
> The only trouble with that is the
> myths he perpetuates. It often
> makes me want to jump in and
> correct him.
I wouldn't worry too much about what he 'perpetuates'. I should think by
now that anyone with any intelligence whatsoever should have seen that he
is totally incapable of any level of reasoning and is totally out of touch
with reality.
> I'm going to go on
> ignore mode and join in on that
> for the most part, but I might not
> be able to help myself on some
> occasions. :)
>
Yes, ignore him. Most trolls become increasingly infuriated when nobody
pays any attention to their childish tantrums and sometimes they give up,
but whether they do or not, at least, you have closed your ears to them. It
makes for a calmer mind.
David W.
--
There are two ways to slide easily through life: Namely, to believe
everything, or to doubt everything;
both ways save us from thinking.
Alfred Korzybski, _Manhood of Humanity_ (1921) >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jun 29, 2005
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Ignoring Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Wright Sr. wrote:
> "Scented Nectar" <me DeleteThis @scentednectar.com> wrote in news:lZadnfPLM6pEGHvfRVn-
> jg DeleteThis @rogers.com:
>
> > "Rudy Canoza" <notgenx32 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1122398399.733973.47500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> Scented Nectar wrote:
> >> > Get a life
> >>
> >> You are unoriginal, trite, stale.
> >>
> >> You also are delusional: you cannot rationally believe that it is
> >> "mostly" wrong to kill animals.
> >
> > I think I've explained it to you
> > dozens of times, in dozens of
> > ways. I give up. You wouldn't
> > understand no matter how
> > much I reword it, or how much
> > I dumb it down.
> >
> >
>
> I am of the opinion that he is strictly trolling for effect. Nobody could
> possibly be as stupid and ignorant as he presents himself to be.
Liars eventually come to believe their own lies after they've told them
enough times.
They will progress to the stage where the instant they think of a lie
to tell it becomes truth to them.
*Now* you know what makes ~jonnie~ tick.
>
> Why anyone, in their right mind, would want to do such, I simply can't
> imagine.
>
> Well, I've put him in my killfile, so that any post I make will be *about
> him* in response to other's posts as is this one and that won't be often.
> He, simply, isn't worth the effort.
>
> I have found on occasion that ignoring the rantings of trolls and simply
> talking about them rather than to them can get the message across. Refusing
> to give to them any of the direct attention that they obviously desire can
> frustrate them to the point where they will leave. I'm not going to bet on
> it, however, since he appears to be dumber than the average troll and, as
> long as *anybody* responds to him, it will only encourage him. If
> *everybody* would ignore him, it would allow for 'intelligent'
> conversations to go on.
>
> David Wright Sr.
>
> --
> There are different kinds of interpretations of history and different
> schools of philosophy. All of them have contributed something to human
> progress, but none of them has been able to give the world a basic
> philosophy embracing the whole progress of science and establishing the
> life of man upon the abiding foundation of Fact.
> Alfred Korzybski, _Manhood of Humanity_(1921) >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 345
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Wright Not Really Ignoring Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Wright Sr. wrote:
> "Scented Nectar" <me.DeleteThis@scentednectar.com> wrote in news:QOmdnZlYOaBrjnrfRVn-
> uw.DeleteThis@rogers.com:
>
> (snip)
>
>
>>The only trouble with that is the
>>myths he perpetuates. It often
>>makes me want to jump in and
>>correct him.
>
>
> I wouldn't worry too much about what he 'perpetuates'. I should think by
> now that anyone with any intelligence whatsoever should have seen that he
> is totally incapable of any level of reasoning and is totally out of touch
> with reality.
>
>
>>I'm going to go on
>>ignore mode and join in on that
>>for the most part, but I might not
>>be able to help myself on some
>>occasions. :)
>>
>
>
> Yes, ignore him.
You mean the way you're not, Davey? >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Ignoring Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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dh@. wrote in news:qbqie1htc46r09lmsfutfl02ag7j3ps2ao@4ax.com:
(snip)
> There are a couple of other things I've considered as possibilities.
> One is that he really is as stupid, etc, as he claims to be, and is
> likely screwed up to the point that he can't function well enough to
> care for himself and never has a job, but is under the care of a
> facility or a family member.
He certainly does appear to be out of touch with any reality, responding
only to those things which fit his fantasy and ignoring any which don't.
For example, I presented a listing of 4 prominent behavioral scientists
who refute his notion of "animals can't feel emotions" and, in addition,
mentioned in passing my own 50-60 years of observations with animals of
varying sorts. He totally ignored the references to the scientists, other
than to say that he doubted that I had even read them, and constantly
harped *only* about *my* opinions.
Another reference was made to an article which originated in "Scientific
American" and which also supported the work of the other scientists and RC
lambasted it by attacking the person who had posted it. To top it all off,
he had earlier claimed that 'science' is not even applicable to the
subject, so it is obvious that, even when we had provided such, that no
amount of 'scientific' evidence will ever mean anything to him, even though
he persisted on demanding that I and other people provide scientific
evidence.
Whether or not he can hold down a job, I wouldn't venture to speculate. I
know that I would fire him after about 10 minutes, if I were his employer
and he acted the way he does here. However, he certainly appears to have
no life.
David Wright Sr. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 354
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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shrubkiller wrote:
>>>>>YOU are the one who claimed animals can't anticipate
>>>
>>>Recent research showed that even Chickens can predict the future based
>>>on testing.
>>
>>That's inaccurate. The study only suggests chickens "anticipate the
>>future and demonstrate self-control." After reading the methodology, I'm
>>unconvinced by such claims:
>
> Now Usual is saying chickens anticiptate.
That's what the article about the study says, dumb ass, not what I say.
I disagreed with it. You're too stupid to comprehend that. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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usual suspect <support.TakeThisOut@our.troops> wrote in news:QvrGe.46270$gL1.3860
@tornado.texas.rr.com:
(snip)
> First, I object that what the study saw measured "learning" at all. I
> think it measured conditioning. The fact that poultry eventually
> discriminate between hurrying for a little or waiting to get more tells
> me that they've been conditioned, not that they think.
>
Can you give us precise definitions for 'thinking' and 'conditioning' such
they are clearly and indisputably mutually contradictory?
Are you not arguing from the a priori viewpoint that 'animals can't think'
therefore anything they do which appears to be 'thinking' is merely
'conditioning'.
David Wright Sr. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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usual suspect <support.DeleteThis@our.troops> wrote in news:hitGe.46340$gL1.32344
@tornado.texas.rr.com:
(snip)
>> "Studies of animal behavior now make it clear that these barriers are
>> artificial and that at least some animals display tool use, symbolic
>> language, culture and cognition."
>
> "At least some animals" meaning what? Chickens, as in the study we're
> discussing? When was the last time you saw a rooster using tools or
> symbolism? And how do you distinguish between "chicken culture" and
> anthropormorphic projections?
Hey, don't argue with me, it is *your* reference, the same website that you
gave for your 'conditioning' reply. Like your clone, Rudy, you apparently
refuse to pay any attention to anything which goes against your pre-conceived
notions and pick and choose what you like.
You have earned your place alongside Rudy in my kill-file.
David Wright Sr. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr.RemoveThis@alltel.net> wrote
> You have earned your place alongside Rudy in my kill-file.
What's the point in filtering out everyone you disagree with? >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dutch" <no DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in news:11el2mtqmvpioee@news.supernews.com:
>
> "David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr DeleteThis @alltel.net> wrote
>> You have earned your place alongside Rudy in my kill-file.
>
> What's the point in filtering out everyone you disagree with?
>
>
>
I don't kill-file everyone who disagrees with me. I kill-file those who have
shown that they are not open to evidence when it is presented to them. I was
willing to try for a while with Rudy, but eventually, I could no longer
ignore him.'usual suspect' got the axe very quickly when he attempted to use
the results of his *own* reputable source to support his argument while
ignoring that same source when it contradicted his viewpoint.
David Wright Sr.
--
There are different kinds of interpretations of history and different schools
of philosophy. All of them have contributed something to human progress,
but none of them has been able to give the world a basic philosophy
embracing the whole progress of science and establishing the life of man
upon the abiding foundation of Fact.
Alfred Korzybski, _Manhood of Humanity_(1921) >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:22 pm
Post subject: Re: For David Wright -- opinion? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Meadowlark <YoMama.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in news:dceli0$81q$1
@reader2.nmix.net:
(snip)
>
> Would you care to give some background on your own approach to
> animal rights? You sound educated and intelligent, and capable of
> real discussion.
>
I don't wish to mislead anyone. The fact that I believe that animals have
emotions and some degree of cognitive ability doesn't mean that I have any
approach to animal rights. I have very mixed ideas about that subject that
I don't really care to discuss in this, or any online, forum. I am not a
vegetarian or vegan. I came into this discussion because of cross-posting
to another group and felt that I had an obligation to try to offset at
least some of the nonsense being posted by Rudy.
Thank you. Please forgive me if I have unwittingly mislead you.
David Wright Sr. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 22
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:22 pm
Post subject: Re: For David Wright -- opinion? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Wright Sr. wrote:
> Meadowlark <YoMama.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in news:dceli0$81q$1
> @reader2.nmix.net:
> (snip)
>>Would you care to give some background on your own approach to
>>animal rights? You sound educated and intelligent, and capable of
>>real discussion.
> I don't wish to mislead anyone. The fact that I believe that animals have
> emotions and some degree of cognitive ability doesn't mean that I have any
> approach to animal rights. I have very mixed ideas about that subject that
> I don't really care to discuss in this, or any online, forum. I am not a
> vegetarian or vegan. I came into this discussion because of cross-posting
> to another group and felt that I had an obligation to try to offset at
> least some of the nonsense being posted by Rudy.
> Thank you. Please forgive me if I have unwittingly mislead you.
Oh, no problem. I can understand your unwillingness to discuss
*anything* in a forum where Rudy (Jon) and Usual also post -- I
am in the same situation myself. It's hard to imagine that
anyone can still deny animals emotions and cognitive ability,
after all the scientific and empirical material which has
been published in the last twenty years or so. The argument that
some animals have what might be regarded as rudimentary ethical/
moral capacity is newer, but is moving into the mainstream with
recent articles in the popular press (_Newsweek_, IIRC). This
undercuts one of the foundations of Regan's theories, which makes
for an interesting controversy.
Quite outside animals rights _per se_, what is your opinion on
animals as (possible) moral agents in a limited sense? What
about the newer evidence that some parrots probably have the
cognitive ability of a four or five year old human child? That
chimpanzees may have some kind of an aesthetic sense? So much
new information is showing up that the old categories into which
this group has degenerated in recent years have become more and
more irrelevant. I'd like to see some more useful discussion.
However, if you are uncomfortable posting publicly on this
newsgroup, I can certainly understand. If so, I'll return to
Lurk mode. :)
> David Wright Sr. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr.TakeThisOut@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96A2A4E0ACD41nokvamli@213.155.197.138...
> "Dutch" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in news:11el2mtqmvpioee@news.supernews.com:
>
>>
>> "David Wright Sr." <dwrightsr.TakeThisOut@alltel.net> wrote
>>> You have earned your place alongside Rudy in my kill-file.
>>
>> What's the point in filtering out everyone you disagree with?
>>
>>
>>
>
> I don't kill-file everyone who disagrees with me. I kill-file those who
> have
> shown that they are not open to evidence when it is presented to them.
They may draw different conclusions or give less weight to the same evidence
which you find convincing. They may have an entire other body of experience
which belies your conclusions.
In any case, bottom line, they disagree with your conclusions and you get
frustrated at that too
quickly.
> I was
> willing to try for a while with Rudy, but eventually, I could no longer
> ignore him.'usual suspect' got the axe very quickly when he attempted to
> use
> the results of his *own* reputable source to support his argument while
> ignoring that same source when it contradicted his viewpoint.
Perhaps that source contains conflicting bits of information.
I doubt that you have adequate or reasonable cause to killfile either of
them.
People who disagree with you are the gold of usenet. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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External
Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 354
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: Davey Trying Desperately to Ignore Rudy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Wright Sr. wrote:
>>>You have earned your place alongside Rudy in my kill-file.
>>
>>What's the point in filtering out everyone you disagree with?
>
> I don't kill-file everyone who disagrees with me.
You sure seem to.
> I kill-file those who have
> shown that they are not open to evidence when it is presented to them.
You presented no evidence, moron.
> I was
> willing to try for a while with Rudy, but eventually, I could no longer
> ignore him.'usual suspect' got the axe very quickly when he
I asked you what about the chicken study at issue makes you believe they
think. You whiffed and changed the subject, and now you want to avoid
discussing it. >> Stay informed about: Ignoring Rudy |
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