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Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale

  
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:25 pm
Post subject: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale
Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)
Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale

"I view the taking of a whales life in the same manner
I would view the taking of a human life. It is murder
and it is a crime to slaughter such socially complex
intelligent and sensitive sentient beings. The method
of killing is torturous and grossly inhumane. We
would never tolerate a domestic animal to suffer such
a long and painful death. Every person who regards
themselves as civilized must express their disgust and
their revulsion against the whale killing atrocities of
Iceland, Norway, the Faeroes and Japan. These people
who practice this horrific serial killing of whales are the
most barbarous representatives of humanity upon this
planet and cast shame upon their nations."

- Captain Paul Watson


Iceland killed an endangered Fin whale today. This is the first
illegal murder of a whale since Iceland announced their intention
to violate the global moratorium on commercial whaling.

The whale was swimming happily along some two hundred miles
off the coast of Iceland when some Nordic nimrod cowardly
slammed an exploding harpoon into its backside.

The whale struggled in incredible pain for a long time before
losing strength and finally drowned after an agonizing period
when it lungs ruptured and its heart burst from the strain of
oxygen deprivation.

There are some who will take offense at our use of the word
murder. We make no apologies.

Whales are highly intelligent, long lived, socially complex,
sensitive sentient beings. It is a crime against nature and
humanity to cruelly snuff out the life of even one of these
great creatures.

What Iceland did today is unforgivable and tragic and leaves
us with a deep resentment and anger towards Iceland.

"Every time a whale is killed by a human being, it destroys
a little more of my faith in humanity." Said Captain Paul
Watson. "Killing whales in the 21st Century is a savage,
barbaric, ecologically ignorant act of a people who are
displaying an incredible contempt and disrespect for life
and for world opinion."

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is calling for a
total boycott of all Icelandic products and tourism to
Iceland and the Society is already planning a campaign to
confront Icelandic whale killers in Icelandic waters in 2007.

"We are recruiting crew and we are organizing a plan to
go to Iceland and it will be a priority following our
campaign beginning December 1st to oppose the illegal
whaling activities of the Japanese whaling fleet in the
Antarctic Whale Sanctuary


Captain Paul Watson
Founder and President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (1977-
Co-Founder - The Greenpeace Foundation (1972)
Co-Founder - Greenpeace International (1979)
Director of the Sierra Club USA (2003-2006)
Director - The Farley Mowat Institute
Director - www.harpseals.org


"Sail forth - steer for the deep waters only,
Reckless O soul, exploring, I with thee and thou with me,
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all."
- Walt Whitman


www.Seashepherd.org

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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Floyd L. Davidson" <floyd.DeleteThis@apaflo.com> wrote in message news:87ods33ti2.fld@apaflo.com...

Foolish nonsense.

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I.C. Koets

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Since: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:49 pm
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"david @ tokyo" <david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161728459.137099.238510@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > It is obvious that *you* are not credible either, given the
> > > sources of information you accept and deny. I see now that you
> > > are responding to your own articles and are asking for
> > > "independent" science and rejecting what is accepted by the IWC
> > > Science Committee.
> >
> > Of course I am asking for *credible evidence* from a source not
> > in any way associated with whaling. Anything to show us? No?
>
> Why are you doubting the figures agreed by the IWC Scientific
> Committee?

Because the IWC supports the development of the whaling industry.

> Everyone knows that IWC Scientific Committee figures of whale abundance
> are the best.

Then you should be able to demonstrate why. Show us the science.
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Floyd L. Davidson" <floyd.DeleteThis@apaflo.com> wrote in message news:878xj5x8f6.fld@apaflo.com...
> "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
> >"Floyd L. Davidson" <floyd.DeleteThis@apaflo.com> wrote in message news:87u01txxk3.fld@apaflo.com...
> >> "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >The following information is adapted from an article in Ocean Realm
> >> >Autumn 1997 by Paul Watson
> >>
> >> There is no point in posting quotes or opinions from Watson. He
> >> is not credible.
> >
> >Say you. What part of it can you refute? Evidence, not your say-so.
>
> Look, twit... Watson is not a credible source. You *know* that already
> and there is no denying it.

No. I do not know that. I have the utmost respect for Captain Watson.

I suspect that you and others here are connected to the whaling industry.

Your evasion is noted.
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"david @ tokyo" <david.35472.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161782899.512967.141110@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > > > > "The most recent (2001) estimate of abundance of fin whales for the
> > > > > > area off west Iceland (the 'East Greenland Iceland stock') was 25,800
> > > > > > (approx 95% confidence intervals of 20,200 - 33,000). "- IWC sec.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What are you/they claiming exactly?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ummm... just what it says...
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to see some *independent* estimates. Show us the science.
> > >
> > > The IWC estimates are endorsed by the IWC Scientific Committee, so by
> > > definition they are independent. It is not easy to get the IWC
> > > Scientific Committee to agree.
> >
> > IWC - International WHALING Commission.
>
> Um, you determine neutrality and independance by this criteria?

I do not regard an organization that supports the development
of the whaling industry as a neutral source.

> > > You may not want to believe the figures - that is no reason to
> > > unnecessarily dispute them though.
> >
> > There are many reasons to dispute them.
>
> Give me say ... at least 6 reasons then. A handful. Let me see your
> reasons to dispute the figures.

One, as given above. Two, your reluctance or inability to support
your claims with scientific evidence. Three, the difficulties inherent
in counting these creatures. Four, your admitted lack of knowledge..

> > Show us the science!
>
> Would you understand it if you saw it?

I think so.

> Can you explain the basic theory behind line transect surveys?
> Do you know what assuming g(0)=1 means with regards to scientific bias
> in the estimates produced?

Go ahead and explain them to us.

> If you can answer both those question satisfactorily then you'll have
> convinced me that you aren't just going to ignore the science, even if
> I do put some under your nose.

Enough evasion. Let's see what you've got.
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"david @ tokyo" <david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161784658.327173.133650@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:
> > "david @ tokyo" <david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161728459.137099.238510@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > pearl wrote:
> > >
> > > > > It is obvious that *you* are not credible either, given the
> > > > > sources of information you accept and deny. I see now that you
> > > > > are responding to your own articles and are asking for
> > > > > "independent" science and rejecting what is accepted by the IWC
> > > > > Science Committee.
> > > >
> > > > Of course I am asking for *credible evidence* from a source not
> > > > in any way associated with whaling. Anything to show us? No?
> > >
> > > Why are you doubting the figures agreed by the IWC Scientific
> > > Committee?
> >
> > Because the IWC supports the development of the whaling industry
>
> The IWC supports whatever the politicians at the IWC vote for.

That doesn't alter its ultimate objectives.

> And what the politicians vote for has nothing at all to do with the
> scientific information that is agreed upon at the Scientific Committee.

Would you care to expand on that extraordinary claim?

> By the way, the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling
> explicits states two goals - conservation of whale stocks, and the
> development and regulation of whaling industry. In order to conserve
> whale stocks, whaling must be regulated. In order to develop whaling,
> whale stocks must be conserved.

Can you show us a statement from the IWC condemning the illegal
commercial whaling being conducted by Iceland?
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"david @ tokyo" <david.35472.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161785471.218169.83930@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:
> > "david @ tokyo" <david.35472.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161782899.512967.141110@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > pearl wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > "The most recent (2001) estimate of abundance of fin whales for the
> > > > > > > > area off west Iceland (the 'East Greenland Iceland stock') was 25,800
> > > > > > > > (approx 95% confidence intervals of 20,200 - 33,000). "- IWC sec.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What are you/they claiming exactly?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ummm... just what it says...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd like to see some *independent* estimates. Show us the science.
> > > > >
> > > > > The IWC estimates are endorsed by the IWC Scientific Committee, so by
> > > > > definition they are independent. It is not easy to get the IWC
> > > > > Scientific Committee to agree.
> > > >
> > > > IWC - International WHALING Commission.
> > >
> > > Um, you determine neutrality and independance by this criteria?
> >
> > I do not regard an organization that supports the development
> > of the whaling industry as a neutral source.
>
> Please take note of comments I posted elsewhere.

I didn't find them convincing. Lets see their condemnation of the
illegal commercial whaling being conducted by Iceland, and their
stance on the whaling done by Japan under the guise of 'science'.

> > > > > You may not want to believe the figures - that is no reason to
> > > > > unnecessarily dispute them though.
> > > >
> > > > There are many reasons to dispute them.
> > >
> > > Give me say ... at least 6 reasons then. A handful. Let me see your
> > > reasons to dispute the figures.
> >
> > One, as given above.
>
> Oh, so you basically don't trust the Scientific Committee figures
> because they provide advice on issues to the IWC?

Iceland is using their estimates to go ahead with whaling, aren't they?

> That's not a scientific reason to dispute the figures. Let's see some
> scientific reasons, pearl.

It's you that needs to provide the science to support the figures.

> > Two, your reluctance or inability to support
> > your claims with scientific evidence.
>
> The scientific evidence is completely on the side of Iceland.
> They are hunting 9 whales which represents less than 0.1% of the
> estimated abundance of the stock.
> Fin whale numbers have been expanding by 10% annually.
>
> This is obviously sustainable.

Ipse dixit. And 200 next year... Still waiting..

> You have no science to show otherwise, and you are resorting to
> shooting the Scientific Committee for providing such information, just
> because it's information that doesn't suit you.

I've asked you time and time again to support those estimates..

> > Three, the difficulties inherent
> > in counting these creatures.
>
> Umm, those difficulties are all accounted for in the estimation
> techniques.

Amazing! Explain how.

> Again, g(0)=1 pearl - tell me what it means in terms of scientific
> bias.

Go ahead.

> > Four, your admitted lack of knowledge..
>
> That's 4, not 6 (you said you had many), and none of them are
> scientific in the least.

Still waiting...

> > > > Show us the science!
> > >
> > > Would you understand it if you saw it?
> >
> > I think so.
>
> I have a different impression...

Still waiting..

> > > Can you explain the basic theory behind line transect surveys?
> > > Do you know what assuming g(0)=1 means with regards to scientific bias
> > > in the estimates produced?
> >
> > Go ahead and explain them to us.
>
> Why do you want to see the science when you don't even understand the
> basics? You won't understand the science if you have no clue about the
> answers to those two questions above.
>
> Do some research, understand what I am asking you, and then come back
> later. There's no point in me pointing science in front of you when
> it's going to refer to concepts such as those two above, which you
> don't appear to have any knowledge of.

Still waiting..

> > > If you can answer both those question satisfactorily then you'll have
> > > convinced me that you aren't just going to ignore the science, even if
> > > I do put some under your nose.
> >
> > Enough evasion. Let's see what you've got.
>
> Umm, I was asking you to tell me about those things. I have the answers
> - you do not - did you call your school teacher evasive when s/he made
> you sit a test and didn't give you the answers straight away?
>
> Come on, pearl. If you want to be serious, show some good faith. I'll
> not put up with this forever.

Still waiting..
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J. Anderson

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Since: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: 13



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"david @ tokyo" <david.35472.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161790009.809611.207580@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> You don't have to breath. You could die. Is that enough to convince you
> to stop breathing?

Hard to tell which of you is the dumber one.
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pearl

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 632



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"david @ tokyo" <david.35472.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161787774.597346.19450@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:
> > "david @ tokyo" <david.35472.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1161785471.218169.83930@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<..>
> > > Oh, so you basically don't trust the Scientific Committee figures
> > > because they provide advice on issues to the IWC?
> >
> > Iceland is using their estimates to go ahead with whaling, aren't they?
>
> That's right. The scientific evidence that the Scientific Committee was
> able to agree on just happens to support Iceland's view that
> sustainable whaling is possible for the stocks in question, at the
> levels which permits have been issued at.

And the IWC just happened to post those figures in Iceland's support.

> > > That's not a scientific reason to dispute the figures. Let's see some
> > > scientific reasons, pearl.
> >
> > It's you that needs to provide the science to support the figures.
>
> g(0)=1 means?
>
> Google. Come on. I'll wait for you to do some homework on this.

100% of the animals are detected along the transect line.

Now I'd like to see what you've been so reluctant to post.
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dh

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Since: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 409



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:22 am
Post subject: Re: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:25:18 +0100, "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote:

>
>Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale
>
>"I view the taking of a whales life in the same manner
>I would view the taking of a human life. It is murder
>and it is a crime to slaughter such socially complex
>intelligent and sensitive sentient beings. The method
>of killing is torturous and grossly inhumane. We
>would never tolerate a domestic animal to suffer such
>a long and painful death. Every person who regards
>themselves as civilized must express their disgust and
>their revulsion against the whale killing atrocities of
>Iceland, Norway, the Faeroes and Japan. These people
>who practice this horrific serial killing of whales are the
>most barbarous representatives of humanity upon this
>planet and cast shame upon their nations."
>
>- Captain Paul Watson
>
>
>Iceland killed an endangered Fin whale today. This is the first
>illegal murder of a whale since Iceland announced their intention
>to violate the global moratorium on commercial whaling.

What do you think people could do about that?

>The whale was swimming happily along some two hundred miles
>off the coast of Iceland when some Nordic nimrod cowardly
>slammed an exploding harpoon into its backside.
>
>The whale struggled in incredible pain for a long time before
>losing strength and finally drowned after an agonizing period
>when it lungs ruptured and its heart burst from the strain of
>oxygen deprivation.
>
>There are some who will take offense at our use of the word
>murder. We make no apologies.
>
>Whales are highly intelligent,

Not really. If they were "highly" intelligent people wouldn't
be able to kill them from a boat on the surface of the ocean,
because they would learn to stay away from them.
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J. Anderson

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Since: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: 13



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:26 pm
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"Stein R" <steinjr.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9869B9C4FB923steinjr@216.196.109.146...

> The fuss is about a simple principle : "Only ban what _needs_ to be
> banned - everything else is allowed.
>
> Even if _you_ do not want to do something, there is no need to refuse
> everybody else to do what you do not want to do".

You know quite well that laissez-faire simply isn't possible any longer.
Everybody cannot be allowed to do whatever he pleases, neither on an
individual level nor as a subject within the 'international community' of
nations. If there is a general consensus concerning whaling, then all
countries should comply. Or are you the kind of person who lits a cigar in a
non-smoking area, telling others that 'even if _you_ do not want to do
something, there is no need to refuse everybody else to do what you do not
want to do'?
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Stein R

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 6



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:26 pm
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"J. Anderson" <andersons6.RemoveThis@inbox.lv> wrote in
news:ebs0h.39606$ne5.7433@reader1.news.jippii.net:

>
> "Stein R" <steinjr.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9869B9C4FB923steinjr@216.196.109.146...
>
>> The fuss is about a simple principle : "Only ban what _needs_ to be
>> banned - everything else is allowed.
>>
>> Even if _you_ do not want to do something, there is no need to refuse
>> everybody else to do what you do not want to do".
>
> You know quite well that laissez-faire simply isn't possible any
> longer. Everybody cannot be allowed to do whatever he pleases, neither
> on an individual level nor as a subject within the 'international
> community' of nations. If there is a general consensus concerning
> whaling, then all countries should comply. Or are you the kind of
> person who lits a cigar in a non-smoking area, telling others that
> 'even if _you_ do not want to do something, there is no need to refuse
> everybody else to do what you do not want to do'?

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept "what _needs_ to be
banned". What needs to be banned is behavior that is highly likely to
cause serious damage to _other_ people.

Say "drink and drive". If you do that in an environment where there are
other people, you risk their life. _Your_ freedom to drive on public
roads whenever you want to ends when it clashes with _my_ freedom to
drive to drive on public roads without being at risk from being killed
by alcohol impaired drivers.

If you want to drink yourself silly and kill yourself driving your own
car on an enclosed track where the only person you can kill or hurt is
yourself, then do as you damn well please.

Incidentally - make sure you pay up your health insurance before you do
it. While I wouldn't dream of refusing you the right to risk your own
life if you so want, I may not be interested in picking up the tab to
pay for your lack of brains.

As for "smoking in a non-smoking area", I'd say it depends on what the
non-smoking area is. Inside a business or public access building or
around the entrance to such a building, where non-smokers actually are
forced to breathe second-hand smoke ? Okay - ban it.

How about in a city park (ie in an open air environment) ?

How about inside your private home ?

We should be careful to not confuse the concepts "freedom" and the
concept "democracy". They ccertainly _can_ (and do) exist together, but
not everything decided by snout-counting represents an increase in
individual freedom. There is also such a thing as "the tyrrany of the
majority".

Also, I really do not care about "general consensus". There used to be
a general consensus that the world was flat and that the sun orbited
around the earth.

Is the world flat ? Does the sun orbit around the earth?

What the world needs are _informed_ citizens who take serious their duty
to investigate things before they make their decisions. Not wooly-headed
and ill informed nitwits like Pearl who apparently operates mainly by
what they "feel" about various subjects.

Grin,
Stein
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J. Anderson

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Since: Oct 25, 2006
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:10 am
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"Floyd L. Davidson" <floyd.DeleteThis@apaflo.com> wrote in message
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> The International Convention for Regulation of Whaling treaty
> specifically recognized the need for research, and *requires*
> that the meat be sold. You *cannot* still be ignorant of that,
> are are simply refusing to accept reality.

Look, I couldn't bloody care less. I feel sorry both for the whales and for
you, you poor hysterics. In due time, you will be remembered as antiquated
idiots.
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Thomas Palm

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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:15 am
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floyd.TakeThisOut@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote in
news:873b99cw3m.fld@apaflo.com:

> "J. Anderson" <andersons6.TakeThisOut@inbox.lv> wrote:
>>Most of us can't understand what all the fuss is about anyway. I mean
>>200 whales out of a population of 25,000 is not such a big deal, is
>>it? One way or the other. So why not simply stop killing them?
>
> If 200 out of 25,000 is not a big deal, logically you should say
> "Why stop hunting them?"

One flaw in that argument is that it assumes that Iceland, a country
with 300,000 inhabitants, own all the whales and have the right to
take the full "sustainable" quota. If other countries hunted whales
too they would soon go extinct. Iceland thus is parasiting on other
nations unwillingness to hunt whales, saying that their interest in
not killing whales is irrelevant.

A more reasonable principle if we are going to allow hunting of
whales would be to divide the sustainable quota between all countries
with an interest in whales and let those countries decide what to
do with it, including doing nothing. There is no reason to favor
those who like to kill whales over those who don't.

Of course, the fact that the fin whales is listed as endangered makes
this whole discussion moot. It shouldn't be hunted. period.
 >> Stay informed about: Iceland Murders Its First Endangered Whale 
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