Human Rights.

"Ray" <ray DeleteThis @syntex.com> wrote in message
news:cjeo3d$q3j$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
[snip]
>
> All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
>

I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.

Michael Saunby
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Michael Saunby" <msaunby.DeleteThis@despammed.com> wrote
>
> "Ray" <ray.DeleteThis@syntex.com> wrote in message
> news:cjeo3d$q3j$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> [snip]
> >
> > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
> >
>
> I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.

From what I've seen on the tube they sent a lot of clowns.
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Rubystars" <windstorm RemoveThis @swbell.net> wrote in message
news:nDD6d.284$nU5.227@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Ray" <ray RemoveThis @syntex.com> wrote in message
> news:cjeo3d$q3j$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > Ken Bigley, sits in the corner of a cell waiting his execution.Our PM
Tony
> > Blair and President Bush state that they care. Do they?
>
> I'm sure they do, but he's pretty much beyond help now.
>
> > It must be remembered that Ken and his two other American 'Aid Workers',
> > already executed, were helping to restore normality and decent standards
> for
> > the Iraqi people. They were not fighting, but helping.
> >
> > Forget our opinions about Iraq for one moment and consider that the life
> of
> > Ken depends on the reaction of Bush and Blair. We should capitulate,
> release
> > the people that the Iraq demands. We should do it NOW.
>
> We should NEVER capitulate to terrorists.
>
> > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
>
> No. We can't abandon them now. The whole population would really hate us
> then.
>
> > The life of Ken Bigley depends on Bush and Blair, neither have to be
seen
> as
> > backing down.
>
> They can't back down to terrorists. The workers who went to Iraq knew they
> were putting their lives at risk. They weighed that risk against the money
> to be gained. It's terrible what they're having to go through but if we
give
> into terrorist demands this will just encourage Zarqawi and the others to
> use these tactics over and over again.
>
> > The question is are they 'real' hard leaders or not? It is very easy to
> take
> > a hard stance when the life of another is the issue.
>
> Bush and Blair have to consider the lives of people yet to be kidnapped as
> well.
>
> -Rubystars

I take your valid points Rubystars,

If I remember correctly a relation of yours was considering going to Iraq as
an aid worker, I take it he didn't go.
Your point is solid and correct, and yes, it will most certainly happen
again, but not if 'All' aid workers and troups are withdrawn NOW.

We are then in a position to reflect on future action, and indeed how we can
prevent these savages killing innocent US and English people.

A little capitulation 'now', does not reflect on the long term issue. Such
action now does 'not' mean we have lost the plot or indeed the war.
Reflection is the operative word.

Thanks for your response.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Michael Saunby" <msaunby.DeleteThis@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:cjf8cm$cgt$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "Ray" <ray.DeleteThis@syntex.com> wrote in message
> news:cjeo3d$q3j$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> [snip]
> >
> > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
> >
>
> I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.
>
> Michael Saunby
>
>
Exactly what I would expect from you Michael.

The only person important in your life is Michaeal Saunby.
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Ray" <ray.RemoveThis@syntex.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> I take your valid points Rubystars,
>
> If I remember correctly a relation of yours was considering going to Iraq
as
> an aid worker, I take it he didn't go.

He's there, working as a plumber. I've prayed he won't end up with any of
these nutcases.

> Your point is solid and correct, and yes, it will most certainly happen
> again, but not if 'All' aid workers and troups are withdrawn NOW.

There's still work that needs to be done to help Iraq grow into a better
nation though. We can't just pull out.

> We are then in a position to reflect on future action, and indeed how we
can
> prevent these savages killing innocent US and English people.

Getting Iraq into a stable working place is a good start toward curbing
terrorism there.

> A little capitulation 'now', does not reflect on the long term issue. Such
> action now does 'not' mean we have lost the plot or indeed the war.
> Reflection is the operative word.

I am completely opposed to giving in to terrorists because it only
encourages them.

-Rubystars
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Dutch" <no.RemoveThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:10lmbttogsl4vcd@news.supernews.com...
> "Michael Saunby" <msaunby.RemoveThis@despammed.com> wrote
> >
> > "Ray" <ray.RemoveThis@syntex.com> wrote in message
> > news:cjeo3d$q3j$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > [snip]
> > >
> > > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
> > >
> >
> > I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.
>
> From what I've seen on the tube they sent a lot of clowns.

One thing for certain Dutch, no Canadian troups will get killed in Iraq.
Sitting on your arse and watching it on TV is fine. Bur for one moment try
to remember these troupes and aid workers are real people.

I thought 'you' at least would understand what I am trying NOT to say.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Ray" <ray RemoveThis @syntex.com> wrote
>
> "Dutch" <no RemoveThis @email.com> wrote
> > "Michael Saunby" <msaunby RemoveThis @despammed.com> wrote
> > >
> > > "Ray" <ray RemoveThis @syntex.com> wrote > > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.
> >
> > From what I've seen on the tube they sent a lot of clowns.
>
> One thing for certain Dutch, no Canadian troups will get killed in Iraq.

Good, Canada had the good sense to stay out of Iraq because they could see
that the reasons for attacking Iraq were flimsy pretexts. They had the sense
to see that destabilizing Iraq was NOT a good idea. Why couldn't the US and
UK see it?

> Sitting on your arse and watching it on TV is fine. Bur for one moment try
> to remember these troupes and aid workers are real people.

Yes, and some of them are clowns, like the ones who strip prisoners naked
and make them walk on leashes.

> I thought 'you' at least would understand what I am trying NOT to say.

You managed to avoid making a racist remark in that reply, good work.
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:45:51 +0000 (UTC), "Ray" <ray.DeleteThis@syntex.com> wrote:

[..]
>
>A little capitulation 'now', does not reflect on the long term issue. Such
>action now does 'not' mean we have lost the plot or indeed the war.

IT IS always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
To call upon a neighbour and to say:—
“We invaded you last night—we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away.”
And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you’ve only to pay ’em the Dane-geld
And then you’ll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:—
“Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.”

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we’ve proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to says:—

“We never pay any one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!”
Rudyard Kipling
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Ray" <ray.TakeThisOut@syntex.com> wrote in message
news:cjgp5d$7a7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Dutch" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
> news:10lmbttogsl4vcd@news.supernews.com...
>> "Michael Saunby" <msaunby.TakeThisOut@despammed.com> wrote
>> >
>> > "Ray" <ray.TakeThisOut@syntex.com> wrote in message
>> > news:cjeo3d$q3j$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> > [snip]
>> > >
>> > > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.
>>
>> From what I've seen on the tube they sent a lot of clowns.
>
> One thing for certain Dutch, no Canadian troups will get killed in Iraq.
> Sitting on your arse and watching it on TV is fine. Bur for one moment
> try
> to remember these troupes and aid workers are real people.
>

Once again you've used "troupes" so I guess you didn't get my earlier
point. In English the term "troupe" is used for groups of monkeys or
clowns, not soldiers.

More seriously your suggestion that troops and aid workers be withdrawn
wouldn't have affected Bigley and co. These guys are out there to make a
living, about £1k per day tax free, and the UK generally doesn't prohibit
UK citizens from leaving the UK to try and make their fortune. Heck we
generally don't even stop people from leaving if they work as a mercenary,
brothel keeper, or any number of other trades which if they practiced in
the UK would get them locked up, and we don't tax their earnings. These
facts might also be a contributing factor to why UK government doesn't
generally get involved in hostage negotiations. However it's quite
acceptable for employers and families to make payments for the return of
hostages, it may even be that his insurers have some liability.

> I thought 'you' at least would understand what I am trying NOT to say.

It's often gibberish Ray - why would you expect anyone to understand?

Michael Saunby
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Dutch" <no.RemoveThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:10lobgmqifj1k11@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Ray" <ray.RemoveThis@syntex.com> wrote
> >
> > "Dutch" <no.RemoveThis@email.com> wrote
> > > "Michael Saunby" <msaunby.RemoveThis@despammed.com> wrote
> > > >
> > > > "Ray" <ray.RemoveThis@syntex.com> wrote > > > [snip]
> > > > >
> > > > > All troupes and aid workers should be withdrawn from Iraq.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I didn't realise we'd sent clowns out there too - how inhumane.
> > >
> > > From what I've seen on the tube they sent a lot of clowns.
> >
> > One thing for certain Dutch, no Canadian troups will get killed in Iraq.
>
> Good, Canada had the good sense to stay out of Iraq because they could see
> that the reasons for attacking Iraq were flimsy pretexts. They had the
sense
> to see that destabilizing Iraq was NOT a good idea. Why couldn't the US
and
> UK see it?

So you view the removal os Saddam to be a bad move?

Called sitting on the fence I believe.
>
> > Sitting on your arse and watching it on TV is fine. Bur for one moment
try
> > to remember these troupes and aid workers are real people.
>
> Yes, and some of them are clowns, like the ones who strip prisoners naked
> and make them walk on leashes.

People walk dogs on leashes every day, most dogs can be held in higher
regard that these creatures, so what's the problem in walking him on a
leash. Any Idea what this particular terrorist had done?
>
> > I thought 'you' at least would understand what I am trying NOT to say.
>
> You managed to avoid making a racist remark in that reply, good work.

My mistake.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Ray" <ray RemoveThis @syntex.com> wrote
>
> "Dutch" <no RemoveThis @email.com> wrote >>

[snip]

>> Canada had the good sense to stay out of Iraq because they could see
>> that the reasons for attacking Iraq were flimsy pretexts. They had the
> sense
>> to see that destabilizing Iraq was NOT a good idea. Why couldn't the US
> and
>> UK see it?
>
> So you view the removal os Saddam to be a bad move?

It was a terrible move, to quote John Kerry, "a colossal error" to
accomplish that goal by invading the country with army divisions. I liken it
to removing a skin cancer on a man's forehead by blowing up the hospital.

> Called sitting on the fence I believe.

It's called using your power to do something more useful and creative than
to incite fear and hatred. A well-planned act of espionage could have
removed Hussein without killing any innocent civilians or American and
British soldiers.

>> > Sitting on your arse and watching it on TV is fine. Bur for one moment
> try
>> > to remember these troupes and aid workers are real people.
>>
>> Yes, and some of them are clowns, like the ones who strip prisoners naked
>> and make them walk on leashes.
>
> People walk dogs on leashes every day, most dogs can be held in higher
> regard that these creatures, so what's the problem in walking him on a
> leash. Any Idea what this particular terrorist had done?

They're soldiers, men fighting in a war to defend their country against
foreign invaders. Not a single one of them was convicted of an act of
"terror" except perhaps being terrified American heavy artillery would
flatten their country. Those American army members broke every rule of
engagement and should be prosecuted. If we're no better than the enemy we
are condemning then let's toss out the rules it and just murder everyone we
don't like.

>> > I thought 'you' at least would understand what I am trying NOT to say.
>>
>> You managed to avoid making a racist remark in that reply, good work.
>
> My mistake.

You make the mistake when you condemn many for the acts of a few. You see a
white man commit a crime and you see a criminal, you see a black man commit
a crime and you see an entire race of criminals.

It's unfortunate that there are so many weak minds like yours in the world.
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Dutch" <no.DeleteThis@email.com> wrote in message news:xUp7d.583784$gE.393923@pd7tw3no...
> "Ray" <ray.DeleteThis@syntex.com> wrote
> >
> > "Dutch" <no.DeleteThis@email.com> wrote >>
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Canada had the good sense to stay out of Iraq because they could see
> >> that the reasons for attacking Iraq were flimsy pretexts. They had the
> > sense
> >> to see that destabilizing Iraq was NOT a good idea. Why couldn't the US
> > and
> >> UK see it?
> >
> > So you view the removal os Saddam to be a bad move?
>
> It was a terrible move, to quote John Kerry, "a colossal error" to
> accomplish that goal by invading the country with army divisions. I liken it
> to removing a skin cancer on a man's forehead by blowing up the hospital.
>
> > Called sitting on the fence I believe.
>
> It's called using your power to do something more useful and creative than
> to incite fear and hatred. A well-planned act of espionage could have
> removed Hussein without killing any innocent civilians or American and
> British soldiers.
>
> >> > Sitting on your arse and watching it on TV is fine. Bur for one moment
> > try
> >> > to remember these troupes and aid workers are real people.
> >>
> >> Yes, and some of them are clowns, like the ones who strip prisoners naked
> >> and make them walk on leashes.
> >
> > People walk dogs on leashes every day, most dogs can be held in higher
> > regard that these creatures, so what's the problem in walking him on a
> > leash. Any Idea what this particular terrorist had done?
>
> They're soldiers, men fighting in a war to defend their country against
> foreign invaders. Not a single one of them was convicted of an act of
> "terror" except perhaps being terrified American heavy artillery would
> flatten their country. Those American army members broke every rule of
> engagement and should be prosecuted. If we're no better than the enemy we
> are condemning then let's toss out the rules it and just murder everyone we
> don't like.
>
> >> > I thought 'you' at least would understand what I am trying NOT to say.
> >>
> >> You managed to avoid making a racist remark in that reply, good work.
> >
> > My mistake.
>
> You make the mistake when you condemn many for the acts of a few. You see a
> white man commit a crime and you see a criminal, you see a black man commit
> a crime and you see an entire race of criminals.
>
> It's unfortunate that there are so many weak minds like yours in the world.

IAWTP.


--
Human dignity...can be achieved only in the field of ethics,
and ethical achievement is measured by the degree in which
our actions are governed by compassion and love, not by
greed and aggressiveness" - Arnold J. Toynbee
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights. 

"Ray" <ray.DeleteThis@syntex.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> They are not men, like the rest of the Muslim race they are machines -
> killing machines.

Ray, Islam is NOT a race! There are Muslims of nearly all races. Only about
1/5 of Muslims are Arab. There are even British white Muslims. You'd do well
to remember that.

<snip>
> (North and South) and China, develop weapons on mass destruction. You are
a
> nation of cringing cowards with big mouths, little wonder the Yanks don't
> like you. Frankly, I don't know haw you have the nerve to post to theses
> forums.

I think some countries, like Canada, France, Germany, etc. have citizens
that take their freedom for granted. They believe it can never be taken
away. They're content to let people like Saddam and Kim Jong Il do what they
will because they're on the other side of the world. Reality doesn't work
that way. 9/11 could just be the beginning. We could have nuclear attacks
against us, have our country taken over by sharia law, etc. The people who
think we'll always be free by sitting around on our butts and being nice and
kind to Islamic countries who want to destroy freedom and Western values,
are extremely deluded. Freedom must be fought for, or we'll lose it
completely.

There's nothing that makes the USA, Canada, Britain, France, or Germany
immune from being taken over. 1/5-1/4 of the world's population is Muslim!
If even a fraction of this force gets mobilized, any or all of these
countries could be in big trouble.

> God Bless America, God Bless George W. Bush.
>
> And FUCK CANADA.
>
> You want the fucing Muslems? You can have em - every one.

I think Canadians are letting our American and British soldiers do the hard
work to save their ass, Ray.

-Rubystars
 >> Stay informed about: Human Rights.