Hobby Ethics

"Eric Schreiber" <myfirstname.DeleteThis@ericschreiber.com> wrote in message
news:kp93vvstjg6ulhlki5do9docuukru6o584@4ax.com...
> Joseph <Joseph.Thompson.DeleteThis@mail.maine.edu> wrote:
>
> >I live in a state where many fresh water plants are illegal, e.g.
> >Anacharis and milfoil. There are also several species of aquatic
> >animals that are illegal, e.g. ghost shrimp, fresh water snails, and
> >killifish (a HUGE fine if your caught with killies).
>
> What state, Maine? I wouldn't have thought they'd consider these
> things to be a danger, since most aquarium species are warm water.
>
> >I've been wrestling with the ethics of buying an illegal animal on
> >line (ghost shrimp), and wonder what other people think about this in
> >regards to both plants and animals.
>
> Do you have a link to the formal state rules about this? Sometimes
> these laws only prohibit commercial sales or are oddly written to
> allow exceptions.
>
> As for ethics vs the law, well, the two rarely intercept :)
>
>
> --
> www.ericschreiber.com

This is a very sticky question. You could observe the legal requirements
by purchasing similar looking (but legal) plants, shrimp and snails, and
then address the ethical concerns by handling them responsibly, ensuring
they never get out into your environment (regardless if they would or
wouldn't survive). However, legislation on Killies might be too broad to
find a similar but legal substitute, so you might have to go to a
different (legal) fish. How about exploring the legality of keeping home
grown darters and minnows?

I'm curious as to how this will evolve in the future. If your
environment could be adversely affected by something like Killies, could
White Cloud minnows be potentially banned as well? Will Guppies be next?
Canada, Russia and northern Europe may become the last bastions of legal
hobbyists in the future ;~)

NetMax, living up in Canada eh? ;~)
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

Joseph wrote:
> Any thoughts?

There's usually a *very* good reason for certain plants and animals to
be illegal: if they escape into the environment, they reproduce
uncontrollably and cause the death of native species. This is not good.
Please don't take the risk.

--
Victor Martinez
Send your spam here: uce.DeleteThis@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER.DeleteThis@BOXaustin.rr.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

"NetMax" <computeralias RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>This is a very sticky question. You could observe the legal requirements
>by purchasing similar looking (but legal) plants, shrimp and snails, and
>then address the ethical concerns by handling them responsibly, ensuring
>they never get out into your environment (regardless if they would or
>wouldn't survive).

The ethics are fairly universal. Know the requirements of your fish
before you buy them, provide them with the best environment you can,
and never, ever release them into the wild.

The legal aspects are much trickier, and I suspect that even the
enforcing agencies don't really understand them. Sometimes it's
illegal to import or sell a species, but if you can find someone
locally who already has it you can get offspring (or cuttings) from
them.

>NetMax, living up in Canada eh? ;~)

Apart from the weather, Canada has started to look more and more
attractive in recent years. And you guys know the proper way to treat
French Fries.

--
www.ericschreiber.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

No state or government has the right to interfere in a person's private business, unless it DIRECTLY
harms another INDIVIDUAL. God, what is this country coming to? FIGHT THE OPRESSION!
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

Joseph <Joseph.Thompson RemoveThis @mail.maine.edu> wrote in message
news:uo73vvc68t5s9fpr27us8q3v5on6ij6ad1@4ax.com...
> I live in a state where many fresh water plants are illegal, e.g.
> Anacharis and milfoil. There are also several species of aquatic
> animals that are illegal, e.g. ghost shrimp, fresh water snails, and
> killifish (a HUGE fine if your caught with killies).
>
> I've been wrestling with the ethics of buying an illegal animal on
> line (ghost shrimp), and wonder what other people think about this in
> regards to both plants and animals.
>
> Any thoughts?

Ghosties aren't worth it. They're one of the least interesting things you
could ever get fined for.
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

"Dunter Powries" <fech DeleteThis @redcap.spedlins> wrote:

>Ghosties aren't worth it. They're one of the least interesting things you
>could ever get fined for.

Hey! I like my ghost shrimp! And they like me, I'm certain of it.



--
www.ericschreiber.com
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Hey Joeseph, what state do you live in? I live in Virginia and have
not found ANY stores in my area, Virginia Beach, that carry Killifish.
And have found ghost shirmp ONCE.

Evan
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

I am well aware of the exotic problems in my current state of residence. Why do you seem so quick to
take away MY right? Because of what someone ELSE did? Why should I be punished for the acts of
others? Does that seem right? Besides, there are very few exotics doing well, compared to the
number in the hobby, and natives in FL. A lot of exotics are from fish farm releases (I'm sure YOU
don't buy from fish farms, right?). Bottom line, I am responsible for MY actions. YOU are responsible
for YOUR actions. Let's keep it like that okay? (or rather, get it back like that).

LtWolfe

"Toni" <Toni DeleteThis @nada.noway> wrote in
news:1dmIb.15747$IM3.6330@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

>
> "LtWolfe" <platoon DeleteThis @wolfe.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9461A4720761Fplatoonwolfecom@199.45.49.11...
>> No state or government has the right to interfere in a person's
>> private
> business, unless it DIRECTLY
>> harms another INDIVIDUAL. God, what is this country coming to? FIGHT
>> THE
> OPRESSION!
>>
>
>
> I live in a land infested with Muscovy Ducks, toxic Bufo Toads, and
> Melaleuca trees are soaking up my Everglades.... all non natives, all
> introduced by folks who thought they knew better.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

and at this point i think this should be cross-posted to alt.politics and
eliminated from the rec.aquaria* groups.


"LtWolfe" wrote...
> "Toni" wrote:
> > "LtWolfe" wrote...
> >> No state or government has the right to interfere in a person's
> >> private business, unless it DIRECTLY
> >> harms another INDIVIDUAL. God, what is this country coming to? FIGHT
> >> THE OPRESSION!
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

"Empty" <emptyCANOFSPAM.TakeThisOut@emptiedout.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94626A13EB1A6emptiedoutcom@216.168.3.50...
> LtWolfe <platoon.TakeThisOut@wolfe.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9461AAA18E0A3platoonwolfecom@199.45.49.11:

> > Why do you seem so quick to take away MY right?
>
> What right? I may have missed the Right to Keep Exotic Pets in the
> Constitution.


That's because rights exist whether or not they're found
in some Big List of Rights.


> The bottom line is that you have no "right" to make decisions
> regarding the Florida ecosystem, nor do you have any "right"
> to own any kind of aquarium fish or plant.


LtWolfe does indeed have the right to own any kind
of aquarium fish or plant, even though there may be
some reason that he should not exercise that right.

It appears that PETA has found yet another unwitting stooge.
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

Thank you Letrol. You took the words right out of my mouth.
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

LtWolfe <platoon.TakeThisOut@wolfe.com> wrote:

>Thank you Letrol. You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm not sure I'd be so quick to jump on le troll's band wagon.

--
www.ericschreiber.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics 

LtWolfe <platoon.DeleteThis@wolfe.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9462D67FF3A66platoonwolfecom@199.45.49.11...
> Thank you Letrol. You took the words right out of my mouth.

I, personally, have no problem with the concept of personal responsibility.
We should all accept and be expected to accept responsibility for the
consequences of our own decisions, actions, and failures to act.

If you dick-up an entire ecosystem, a $500 suspended fine from a district
court is NOT going to satisfy me.
 >> Stay informed about: Hobby Ethics