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Next: Goo's/'aras'" beliefs
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:08 pm
Post subject: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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Comments are invited.
In general, primitive hunter/gatherer societies do not have slaves,
although some nomadic societies do. Primitive hunter/gatherer
societies consisted of small bands of individuals, usually members of
a family related by blood or marriage. Such groups were similar to
the troops or bands of other, non-human primate societies like
chimpanzees. Having slaves would be of no particular economic or social
benefit to them. Animals who were hunted were also seen very differently
from domestic animals in later societies, often given considerable
respect and even reverence, and regarded as equal to, and similar to,
humans.
Ownership of both humans and animals evolved along with ownership of
land in the case of settled communities, and is found in the earliest
civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt, once slaves and domesticated
animals had become economic assets. One theory is that slavery grew
out of capture of prisoners in war, and this was the main source of
human slaves through most of ancient history. Because their children
also began with the status of slaves, a certain number of human slaves
were also bred, especially on large estates. Most societies had
mechanisms whereby human slaves could become free, either by being
granted freedom by masters, or by collecting enough money to buy
themselves free (i.e., to own themselves). The status of such freedmen/
women varied with the society. In some societies, only the children
of citizens could be citizens, and even freed slaves could never
become full members of the society (as in most ancient Greek cities).
Over time, societies such as ancient Rome did develop some "welfare"
legislation which protected slaves from irrational cruelty on the
part of the master (such as the Lex Petronia in ancient Rome) -- laws
similar in intent and function to our welfare laws to protect domestic
animals from cruelty.
The philosophical foundation for slavery in later societies was
Aristotle's assertion that some humans were "natural" slaves. The
great respect for Aristotle in the medieval period meant that slavery
continued to be legal in Europe through the Middle Ages. In practice,
chattel slavery was largely replaced by serfdom, in which the serf
was attached to a land grant, rather than sold separately. The changes
in production in medieval Europe made slavery largely uneconomic,
however. After Christianity became the major religion, the Biblical
passages recognizing slavery ("Slaves, obey your masters" in St. Paul)
reinforced Aristotle, and became the standard justification for
slavery in post-medieval societies, including the United States.
Once European countries began to expand into colonial areas, and
especially when large-scale plantations and estates under European
ownership developed in the Americas, Africa, and the East, slavery
became economically rational once more. The first beginnings of a
racial (as opposed to cultural) justification for slavery began in
this period. The first racial group to be defined as "natural"
slaves in the Americas were the Native Americans. Native Americans
continued to provide most of the slaves in the areas under Spanish
control, such as what is now California and the American Southwest,
up through the 19th century. The Native Americans were largely
exterminated or driven out of the areas along the Eastern coast
under control of the British, and they were replaced by slaves
captured in Africa. The idea that slaves were African or "black"
was a very recent phenomenon in the English colonies and the
United States which replaced them, although black slaves had been
among those found in ancient Egypt, the Roman empire, the Islamic
areas of the Middle East, and among the African tribes themselves.
Most people are fairly familiar with the development of
abolitionism in England, Europe, and the U.S.from the 18th century
on. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Mar 23, 2005 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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Since: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery/ Why it's on topic [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Glorfindel wrote:
> Slippery Slope wrote:
>> Off-topic.
What's interesting is how many of the reasons (or excuses)
for enslaving humans are echoed even today in the
arguments for enslaving non-human animals:
We have the power to do it, and they can't prevent us.
(We captured them in war/domesticated and bred them.)
It's traditional; it's the way we've always done it.
It's ordained by God.
They can't communicate with us in our language ( origin of
the ancient Greek concept of non-Hellenes as barbarians.)
They aren't as intelligent as we are, and the more intelligent
have a right to rule the less intelligent. (Plato)
It's "natural" for some to be slaves and some not. (Aristotle)
They don't have souls (argued by some early Spanish about
Native Americans).
They don't feel and understand things as we do. (Said about
slaves in the South)
They're incapable of taking care of themselves. Enslaving them
is really a benefit for them, and we're providing a better
life for them. We really love them and want to take care of them.
They don't look like us -- they're physically different.
It's necessary, or our economy and society will collapse.
One by one, these reasons for enslaving humans have been declared
false and immoral in most cultures today.
It's time society saw them as equally false as reasons for
enslaving animals. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:25 am
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery/ Why it's on topic [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 30, 2006 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:08:46 -0700, Glorfindel <notgiven DeleteThis @all.com>
wrote:
>
>Comments are invited.
>
>In general, primitive hunter/gatherer societies do not have slaves,
>although some nomadic societies do.
Hmm.. a study of history showed that *many* primitive hunter/gatherer
societies do have slaves. War captives, raiding other groups, and so
on.
<snip>
>Ownership of both humans and animals evolved along with ownership of
>land in the case of settled communities, and is found in the earliest
>civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt, once slaves and domesticated
>animals had become economic assets.
<snip>
Helpful hint for you - animals were being domesticated long before
agriculture.
Your title is misleading: It's not a "history'", it's your wild-assed
guess. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:54 am
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery/ Why it's on topic [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Slippery Slope wrote:
> It isn't interesting at all. It's off-topic.
You don't find it interesting that the same arguments have been
used to justify ownership of both human and non-humans? You can
conclude from that one of three things:
Humans, or some humans, and animals are sufficiently alike
that ownership of both as chattels is morally justified for
(this ) reason.
Humans and animals are sufficiently alike that ownership of
neither is morally justified for (this) reason.
Humans and animals are sufficiently unlike that ownership of one
group is justified, but ownership of the other is not for (this)
reason.
Then you have to offer arguments in support of your position. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:15 am
Post subject: Slippery on the History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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It figures you'd immediately resort to name-calling, false
and unproven claims, and a panicky retreat when you are
put on the spot.
Slippery wrote:
> You are not qualified to blather about the history of slavery, Glorfindel.
> You have no academic credentials in the topic.
I have mentioned nothing about my academic credentials. You do
not know what they are. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 102
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:30 am
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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Doug Jones wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:08:46 -0700, Glorfindel <notgiven RemoveThis @all.com>
> wrote:
>>In general, primitive hunter/gatherer societies do not have slaves,
>>although some nomadic societies do.
> Hmm.. a study of history showed that *many* primitive hunter/gatherer
> societies do have slaves.
I disagree. Most primitive hunter/gatherer groups 1)have no use for
slaves, and 2)don't have the resources to feed useless slaves.
> War captives, raiding other groups, and so
> on.
Those would be the nomadic peoples I mentioned.
> <snip>
>>Ownership of both humans and animals evolved along with ownership of
>>land in the case of settled communities, and is found in the earliest
>>civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt, once slaves and domesticated
>>animals had become economic assets.
> <snip>
> Helpful hint for you - animals were being domesticated long before
> agriculture.
Yes. However, large-scale slavery did not evolve until settled
communities based on land ownership evolved, because there was
limited (although some) use for slaves in a nomadic herding economy. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Nov 14, 2005 Posts: 43
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:54 am
Post subject: Re: Karen Winter's absurd claim to be a "historian" [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)
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Karen Winter lied:
> Leif Erikson wrote:
> > Karen Winter lied:
>
> >> I have mentioned nothing about my academic credentials. You do
> >> not know what they are.
>
> > I know what they *aren't*:
>
> No, you don't know that either.
Yes, I do, Karen. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 139
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: dilettante pseudo-historian Karen Winter' (Very Brief) and entirely [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Karen Winter - unambiguously Karen Winter - blabbered:
> Slippery Slope wrote:
>
>> It isn't interesting at all. It's off-topic.
>
>
> You don't find it interesting that the same arguments have been
> used to justify ownership of both human and non-humans?
Not particularly, EXCEPT that it helps to establish
that you *are* comparing black Americans to animals,
rather than comparing animals to black Americans. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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Since: Jul 23, 2005 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery/ Why it's on topic [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Slippery Slope wrote:
> Karen Winter lied again:
>
> > Karen Winter lied the first time:
> >
> >> Slippery Slope wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> Off-topic.
> >
> >
> > What's interesting
>
> It isn't interesting at all. It's off-topic.
Then STFU and leave..........it's time for your enema anyway. >> Stay informed about: A (Very Brief) History of Slavery |
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