Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog?

Tom G wrote:
> I don't appreciate the usenet spam (and yes, your post is spam).
>
> However, unlike the cynophobic (aka dog fearing) whiners that seem to
> make up the majority of respondents to your post, I am not instantly
> terrified or angered by the sight of a dog that's not on a leash.
>
> Have I had bad dog experiences? Yes.
> Do I have a dog? Yes.
> Do I take my dog backpacking? I never have, but that doesn't mean I
> never would.
> Would I keep my dog leashed on the trail? Probably not, and certainly
> not at all times.
> Would I be mad any dog (mine included) pissed on my tent? Yes.
> Am I a crybaby? No, but apparently I am one of the few...

I think it should boil down to individual responsibility and a
little brainpower. Carry a leash and be prepared to use it if
your dog is not behaving appropriately.

There are certain National Park Service lands in San Francisco
that have been traditional off-leash dog areas before the NPS took
them over. Some of these areas also happen to contain nesting
sites for a federally protected species - the snowy plover. The
arguments on both sides of the off-leash laws seem to leave no
room for agreement. Certainly some of the strangest arguments
from the pro off-leash side seem to be that "none have been known
to have been killed" although admittedly have harassed the birds.
Others have noted that (what they feel) is the same species is
doing quite well in Utah, although the Western variety has a
separate classification according to the Endangered Species Act.

I think it should be fairly simple. If your dog starts chasing
wildlife in a public area, immediately control it if you can or
leash it if you can't. Don't think it's funny or cute because your
dog is doing that. If someone else's dog is doing so, tell them
in a nonconfrontational manner. I was rather lucky with my
dog, as it was generally uninterested in wildlife, although other
dogs were of great interest.
 >> Stay informed about: Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog? 

Tom G wrote:
> I don't appreciate the usenet spam (and yes, your post is spam).
>
> However, unlike the cynophobic (aka dog fearing) whiners that seem to
> make up the majority of respondents to your post, I am not instantly
> terrified or angered by the sight of a dog that's not on a leash.

Whee! You know some big words. Good for you.

> Have I had bad dog experiences? Yes.

Everybody has. That's the point. That's why there are leash laws
and areas where dogs are banned.

> Do I have a dog? Yes.
> Do I take my dog backpacking? I never have, but that doesn't mean I
> never would.
> Would I keep my dog leashed on the trail? Probably not, and certainly
> not at all times.

See, that's the *source* of the bad dog experiences. Leash laws
are always in force, not just when you feel like it. You've got the
"the world is my dog's toilet" attitude up the whazoo.

> Would I be mad any dog (mine included) pissed on my tent? Yes.
> Am I a crybaby? No, but apparently I am one of the few...

I only hike in areas where leashes are required, or where dogs
are banned outright. Exclusively. I *never* see dogs on leash,
always loose. Somebody who deliberately chooses a place
where dogs are restricted or banned, and still has dogs
annoying him, why he's just a whining crybaby.

What a shining example of dog ownership you are.
Socks
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y_p_w wrote:
> Tom G wrote:

>
> I think it should be fairly simple. If your dog starts chasing
> wildlife in a public area, immediately control it if you can or
> leash it if you can't. Don't think it's funny or cute because your
> dog is doing that. If someone else's dog is doing so, tell them
> in a nonconfrontational manner. I was rather lucky with my
> dog, as it was generally uninterested in wildlife, although other
> dogs were of great interest.

Stepping into this late, it does come down to responsible ownership. If
an area is supposed to be onleash, then dogs should be on a leash.
Period. No exceptions. However, even in off leash areas dogs should be
non dog-aggressive, non people-aggressive and have a really, really good
recall! Equally obnoxious are dogs who are effusively friendly to
everyone they meet, expressing it by leaping all over strangers. So
basically, dogs in off leash areas should be the type who are happy to
ignore people they don't personally know, horses, bicycles, joggers,
etc, etc., ,etc.

And it goes without saying that on leash or off leash, poop should be
picked up in any area at all likely to be accessed by humans (i.e.,
trails, near trails, in all camping areas, beaches, etc.). And if it's
an area frequented by a fair number of dogs, all poop should be picked
up, period. Too much carnivore poop is bad for the ecology of an area.

There is an argument on the other side too. If you hate dogs, are scared
of dogs, or don't want to encounter dogs, then perhaps a park with legal
off leash access is not a great idea for you. Or perhaps you should
frequent those areas with the idea that yes, you will encounter loose
dogs and unless they harrass you, leave them alone.

Oh, and I own two dobermans. And I pick up poop, and only go to legal
off leash areas. Or keep them on leash.
 >> Stay informed about: Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog? 

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wrote:

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From what I have seen on the trail, a dog's behavior is a direct
reflection of the owner's consideration of others.

The majority of people who bring their dogs out into the wild MEAN
well, but are not always aware of potential problems, and a number of
them are unaware of laws and policies regarding dogs.

Some people are allergic to dogs, others are afraid of or apprehensive
around dogs due to past experiences. These people are not wrong, or
bad, because they do not like having your dog around them.

A responsible dog owner out in public will follow the rules, even
those they disagree with, control their dog at all, and make certain
that someone else's experience is not degraded.

Just like letting your dog bark all night in the backyard shows that
you are irresponsible and inconsiderate, so does letting your dog
bother others on the trail.

And, as with so many things, the idiocy and irresponsibility of a few,
taints the image of all.
 >> Stay informed about: Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog? 

Puppet_Sock wrote:

> Everybody has. That's the point. That's why there are leash laws
> and areas where dogs are banned.

I've had bad experiences in the backcountry with:

- rednecks
- backpackers
- fisherman
- bears
- snakes
- women
- ticks
- 4x4 drivers

One solution is to ban them all, but I doubt if that's the best solution.

Look, you come off like a total prick, and I'm sure it's for good
reason. Though I actually AGREE that there are many irresponsible dog
owners (maybe even most), that doesn't mean your prickish attitude is
right. Grow up, really.

My daughter has been begging for a dog a long time, and we got one a
year ago. She has NEVER been off leash in public. EVER. NEVER EVER.
PERIOD. We've taken her hiking and I'll probably take her backpacking,
but not off leash, except in parks that are designed for that.

> You've got the
> "the world is my dog's toilet" attitude up the whazoo.

You're a presumptious twit, he didn't say he'd ignore dog leash rules.

> Somebody who deliberately chooses a place
> where dogs are restricted or banned, and still has dogs
> annoying him, why he's just a whining crybaby.

No, "someone" is not, but it sure seems you ARE.
 >> Stay informed about: Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog? 

Dai Uy wrote:


> He doesn't care for dog doo on the trail, and you don't
> care for anything or anyone. Who's coming off like a total
> prick? What's your complaint with women? You come of like a
> narrow minded misogynist, but I'm sure it's for good reason.

Wow, you really missed the point. I have no complaint with ANY on my
list, I just said I had bad experiences in the past with each group on
my list in the backcountry.

This was in response to Mr. Puppet Sock, who believes that his bad
experiences with dogs means they should be banned from the backcountry.
KnowwhatImeannow?


> Without presuming anything, perhaps you should read "Tom
> G's" message more carefully. He clearly stated; "Would I keep
> my dog leashed on the trail? Probably not, and certainly not
> at all times." I see that as an admission that he believes
> that he's not bound by any leash laws.

My interpretation differs. I could be wrong, of course, but he
certainly didn't say he'd ignore leash rules.


> Keep your house pets at home in their familiar
> surroundings. They'll be happier, you'll be happier, and we'll
> be happier.
>
> -Dai Uy

Dai, you know, I'd likely be happier if I didn't have a dog... that
said, I disagree with your conclusion. I will likely bring my dog into
the backcountry where it is safe and legal to do so. My dog will remain
on leash too.
 >> Stay informed about: Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog? 

"mfassett@pacbell.net" <mark DeleteThis @particlesalad.com> wrote in message
news:%Mq9g.70365$_S7.51758@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Puppet_Sock wrote:
>
> > Everybody has. That's the point. That's why there are leash laws
> > and areas where dogs are banned.
>
> I've had bad experiences in the backcountry with:
>
> - rednecks
> - backpackers
> - fisherman
> - bears
> - snakes
> - women
> - ticks
> - 4x4 drivers
>
> One solution is to ban them all, but I doubt if that's the best solution.
>
> Look, you come off like a total prick, and I'm sure it's for good
> reason. Though I actually AGREE that there are many irresponsible dog
> owners (maybe even most), that doesn't mean your prickish attitude is
> right. Grow up, really.

How do you tell someone they are a prick without sounding like a prick
yourself?

I don't think it can be done.
 >> Stay informed about: Hike, Camp, Backpack with Your Dog?