Help needed with introduction

"Nick Kolowski" <weasel.DeleteThis@foogod.com> wrote in message
news:2lv3siFgovcbU1@uni-berlin.de...
> My girlfriend and I have been having trouble introducing our new rat
> (Abe) to the two older guys (Richard and Giles). He's a very friendly
> and charming little guy with people, and even played well with the
> others when we were first trying to introduce them (some limited contact
> on the bed). But we had to interrupt our introductions for about two
> months to get the older two treated for lice (Abe thankfully didn't get
> lice in his limited contact with them). We kept them separate during the
> treatment so we only had to treat two rats instead of three.
>
> The problem is after we finished the lice treatment and started up the
> introductions again, Abe got really aggressive. He puffed up to the size
> of a softball and attacked the others, drawing blood. We've tried to
> introduce them slowly but he puffs up and gets very agitated any time he
> gets near them, even if they're in their cage and he's running around
> outside. We're not sure what to do.
>
> My understanding was that it's usually the resident rats who get
> aggressive towards perceived invaders. But in this case Abe is on the
> attack no matter what the situation. We think the big problem is that he
> went through puberty during the lice treatment separation. Should we
> just keep trying and hopefully he'll get used to them? Is this perhaps a
> phase that he'll grow out of? Is it possible that he's simply grown up
> antisocial (toward other rats at least) by not being with other rats as
> he grew up?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

i found getting all of the current rats and the newbie together on the sofa
and showed them equal attention, that seemed to show them to accept the
newcomer.
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction 

Nick Kolowski wrote:


>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry if this has been mentioned my news server drops about half the
posts. I know because in other communities I see replies to me quoted
from other people. :\
Ok enough about me. Let’s talk about your boys…or rather how I
introduced my boys. Boys are notorious (but not impossible) to introduce
because they have that whole testosterone thing going on. I did see the
post about bringing them on the sofa. Sound advice as you will need to
introduce them on totally neutral territory. Throw down a clean sheet
and introduce them while keeping their minds off each other by having
lots of snacks on hand. If the dominant one does the ‘softball puff
thing’ give him a gentle bath. Rats equate actions with response, so if
he does it enough he will equate hostility with baths. When he’s done
with the bath put him back with the others- he will be too busy trying
to get his fur looking perfect to worry about fighting. Have you ever
tried to look cool in front of others with messed up hair? It just
doesn’t work. Same thing here. Rats dislike baths but it is also
harmless for them so it can be a useful tool.:)
Do this a few times each day and each time keep them together just a
little longer. When you are ready for the big test (cage action) you
will need a completely sanitized cage. This means the cage you decide
to keep them in MUST be completely free of any scent. I’ve always had
the best results by cleaning the cage with a little a few drops of
bleach and a LOT of water. After you clean the cage you might even want
to rearrange it, face it in an opposite direction, or even move it to a
new location. Basically anything to trick them into thinking it isn’t
*their* cage. I always put the two most likely to compete for dominance
in at the same time. You can also use the vanilla on the cage itself to
distract them even further (I haven’t tried putting vanilla on my males,
but I know it works for females). Also, when you first introduce them
in the cage you will need to watch them the *entire time* for signs of
aggression.
The keys here are persistence and caution. If you’ve tried everything
you might just have to accept the fact that you may not be able to house
them together. However, keep in mind that all rats (males in particular)
need to establish a pecking order. This is completely natural for them.
In fact, it’s safe to say you can expect it. The key is knowing when to
intervene. You can always “reintroduce” them on neutral territory (yup,
another clean sheet) if the need arises. Good luck!


--
Super Mike
"Mi asno querría un enano y un yate, por favor."
[My donkey would like a midget and a yacht, please.]
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction 

Thanks for all the tips. I think we're going to try the vanilla idea
first, and we'll just keep trying.

-nick
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction 

Try smothering everyone in vanilla extract and keep doing this when the
smell wears off and you see aggression again. This worked with my females.
Lucy drew blood on my new girl (who needed glue to stick her back
together)... but after a dousing in vanilla a couple times Lucy was too busy
licking it off both of them. This licking encouraged Lucy to form a bond
with the new one and today they are best buddies.

From what I know, males can be more difficult but I would still give the
vanilla a try.

Kelly

"Nick Kolowski" <weasel.DeleteThis@foogod.com> wrote in message
news:2lv3siFgovcbU1@uni-berlin.de...
> My girlfriend and I have been having trouble introducing our new rat
> (Abe) to the two older guys (Richard and Giles). He's a very friendly
> and charming little guy with people, and even played well with the
> others when we were first trying to introduce them (some limited contact
> on the bed). But we had to interrupt our introductions for about two
> months to get the older two treated for lice (Abe thankfully didn't get
> lice in his limited contact with them). We kept them separate during the
> treatment so we only had to treat two rats instead of three.
>
> The problem is after we finished the lice treatment and started up the
> introductions again, Abe got really aggressive. He puffed up to the size
> of a softball and attacked the others, drawing blood. We've tried to
> introduce them slowly but he puffs up and gets very agitated any time he
> gets near them, even if they're in their cage and he's running around
> outside. We're not sure what to do.
>
> My understanding was that it's usually the resident rats who get
> aggressive towards perceived invaders. But in this case Abe is on the
> attack no matter what the situation. We think the big problem is that he
> went through puberty during the lice treatment separation. Should we
> just keep trying and hopefully he'll get used to them? Is this perhaps a
> phase that he'll grow out of? Is it possible that he's simply grown up
> antisocial (toward other rats at least) by not being with other rats as
> he grew up?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction 

"Kelly" <none RemoveThis @goaway.com> wrote in message
news:sMkLc.19953$Gf7.727745@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Try smothering everyone in vanilla extract and keep doing this when the
> smell wears off and you see aggression again. This worked with my
females.
> Lucy drew blood on my new girl (who needed glue to stick her back
> together)... but after a dousing in vanilla a couple times Lucy was too
busy
> licking it off both of them. This licking encouraged Lucy to form a bond
> with the new one and today they are best buddies.
>
> From what I know, males can be more difficult but I would still give the
> vanilla a try.
>
> Kelly


It's good to hear about the success stories, Kelly. I remember reading your
post after Lucy had badly attacked the new baby and you wondering whether to
dare try another introduction. I just love it when everything turns out
hunkydory and the ratties become the best of friends. :o)

Tracey
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction 

Kelly wrote:
> Try smothering everyone in vanilla extract and keep doing this when the
> smell wears off and you see aggression again. This worked with my females.
> Lucy drew blood on my new girl (who needed glue to stick her back
> together)... but after a dousing in vanilla a couple times Lucy was too busy
> licking it off both of them. This licking encouraged Lucy to form a bond
> with the new one and today they are best buddies.
>
> From what I know, males can be more difficult but I would still give the
> vanilla a try.
>
> Kelly

How much vanilla extract is usually needed? We just tried introducing
Abe and Richard after dabbing them with vanilla extract, and it didn't
seem to have any effect (other than Richard seemed to rather like
getting it applied, I guess the wet cotton swab felt like a rat tongue).
We did several swabs worth on both of them, around the base of their
tales, the back of their necks and around their genitals. Maybe we
didn't use enough, but It looks like it may be the sight of another rat
rather than smell that sets Abe off.

Abe (the new guy) attacked Richard right away. He didn't even stop to
sniff. So we stopped things right there. Abe drew blood again and ripped
out some fur. Richard seems OK, but a little shocked, I gave him a
tomato (his favorite).

We're both a bit discouraged right now. Maybe we can try later with more
vanilla, or even the idea I saw somewhere of coating them in pudding.
Though I'm really staring to think that Abe is un-introducable unless we
get him neutered, but I'm not sure we can afford it. Does anyone know
what the going price for neutering rats is?

-nick
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction 

"Tracey" <talton.DeleteThis@members.v21.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2m79s4Fjpe3cU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Kelly" <none.DeleteThis@goaway.com> wrote in message
> news:sMkLc.19953$Gf7.727745@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Try smothering everyone in vanilla extract and keep doing this when the
> > smell wears off and you see aggression again. This worked with my
> females.
> > Lucy drew blood on my new girl (who needed glue to stick her back
> > together)... but after a dousing in vanilla a couple times Lucy was too
> busy
> > licking it off both of them. This licking encouraged Lucy to form a
bond
> > with the new one and today they are best buddies.
> >
> > From what I know, males can be more difficult but I would still give the
> > vanilla a try.
> >
> > Kelly
>
>
> It's good to hear about the success stories, Kelly. I remember reading
your
> post after Lucy had badly attacked the new baby and you wondering whether
to
> dare try another introduction. I just love it when everything turns out
> hunkydory and the ratties become the best of friends. :o)
>
> Tracey

I know. I'm so glad everything worked out and that they cuddle together
now. Although ever since they've been living together Lucy has started to
hoard the food in the corner of the cage. Transferring it from the food
bowl to the corner. Up, down, up, down. I think she feels the need to try
and hide all the food from Silver... :-)

Kelly
 >> Stay informed about: Help needed with introduction