Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:12vl558c301ji04@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> news:ete1u0$5a8$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> > "Chom Noamsky" <e DeleteThis @t.me> wrote in message
> > news:pUWJh.83467$Du6.10748@edtnps82...
> >> "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> news:et9bp8$84o$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >>
> >> > Find ways to do it that don't harm others.
> >>
> >> You should apply that to your own lifestyle first. Begin by turning off
> >> your PC which robs wildlife of its natural habitat. Do you believe wild
> >> animals have a right to a habitat?
> >
> > "The human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind
> > virtually every major category of environmental damage now
> > threatening the human future: deforestation, erosion, fresh water
> > scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss,
> > social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread
> > of disease." - World Watch
> >
> >
>
> Try again
> More forests have been destroyed and land eroded for agriculture (that
> means growing plants) than for raising animals for food

'Livestock a major threat to environment
...
Livestock now use 30 percent of the earth's entire land surface, mostly
permanent pasture but also including 33 percent of the global arable land
used to producing feed for livestock, the report notes. As forests are
cleared to create new pastures, it is a major driver of deforestation,
especially in Latin America where, for example, some 70 percent of
former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to grazing.

Land and water

At the same time herds cause wide-scale land degradation, with about
20 percent of pastures considered as degraded through overgrazing,
compaction and erosion. This figure is even higher in the drylands
where inappropriate policies and inadequate livestock management
contribute to advancing desertification.

The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the
earth's increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other
things to water pollution, euthropication and the degeneration of coral
reefs. The major polluting agents are animal wastes, antibiotics and
hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides used
to spray feed crops. Widespread overgrazing disturbs water cycles,
reducing replenishment of above and below ground water resources.
Significant amounts of water are withdrawn for the production of feed.

Livestock are estimated to be the main inland source of phosphorous
and nitrogen contamination of the South China Sea, contributing to
biodiversity loss in marine ecosystems.

Meat and dairy animals now account for about 20 percent of all
terrestrial animal biomass. Livestock's presence in vast tracts of land
and its demand for feed crops also contribute to biodiversity loss;
15 out of 24 important ecosystem services are assessed as in decline,
with livestock identified as a culprit.
....
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html

Impact of livestock grazing on wildlife and habitat worldwide:
http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter6.html

"global arable land" = "present cropland"..

From Technological Trajectories and the Human Environment.
1997. Pp. 56-73. Washington, DC: National Academy Press.
"How Much Land Can Ten Billion People Spare for Nature?"..

'By eating different species of crops and a more or less vegetarian
diet people can change the number that a plot can feed. And large
numbers of people do change their diets. The calories and protein
available from present cropland could provide a vegetarian diet to
ten billion people. A diet requiring food and feed totaling 6,000
calories daily for ten billion people, however, would overwhelm
the capability of present agriculture on present cropland. The
global totals of sun, CO2, fertilizer, and even water could produce
far more food than what ten billion people need.
...'
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4767&page=56

> Ditto for chemical polution of land and waters with fertilisers and
> pesticides

Ipse dixit. And don't blame the produce for the methods used.

> World Watch is one of those organizations that works on the rule
> "These are the conclusions on which I base my facts..."

Hardly.

'The Worldwatch Institute is an environmental research
organisation in the United States.

It is an independent research organization that works for
an environmentally sustainable and socially just society,
in which the needs of all people are met without
threatening the health of the natural environment or the
well-being of future generations." It publishes "The State
of the World" annually.
....'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwatch_Institute
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:35:11 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:7bhhv2hk37ir577ah071vvueqsbveff2bc@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:58:17 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
>> wrote:
>..
>> >Clue: Humans number over six billion these days. Where
>> >is all this wildlife you seem so keen on "harvesting", hmm?
>> >
>> >Provide evidence to support your claims...
>>
>> If you go out in the woods today, you're in for a big surprize. There
>> is wildlife there, some places the highest populations of wildlife
>> since before the fur trade. Wildlife numbers so high that the habitat
>> can no longer provide enough food to support the populations.
>> ANd you want to see these beautiful (tasty) animals starve and get
>> eaten by wolves and coyotes while they are too week to flee?
>
>Show us some examples of what you claim.

Here is a photo of two predators fighting over a carcass

http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?pic_id=komi1142612071&lang=eng



take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:642lv2h7bgj7hckgimdd4b0jeq4aee9qfv@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:18:15 -0000, "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >"Chom Noamsky" <e.RemoveThis@t.me> wrote in message news:0xXJh.83479$Du6.1257@edtnps82...
> >> "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> news:et9bt1$852$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >> > "Chom Noamsky" <e.RemoveThis@t.me> wrote in message
> >> > news:q1WJh.83409$Du6.64406@edtnps82...
> >> >> > "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:et995j$6ua$2@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >> >> >> So you would take away a traditional lifestyle and income away from
> >> >> >> folks who have lived of the fare of the ocean for at least tens of
> >> >> >> centuries? What would they turn to for food and income if this is
> >> >> >> denyied them?
> >> >> >> So what if these folks speak French. It is their lifestyle and lively
> >> >> >> hood you attack. They don't attack you for being vegetarian.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yeah..right. What part of "'Most of the meat is wasted and left
> >> >> > on the ice." are you still having trouble with? If as a last resort
> >> >> > seal meat is required, I can't object, but that isn't the case here.
> >> >>
> >> >> Wasted because of international ARA campaigns.
> >> >
> >> > That's a new one. Do explain.
> >>
> >> I'm sure you can figure than one out for yourself... or maybe not... you
> >> seem to be heavily reliant on "answers.com"
> >
> >And yet more evasion.
> >
> >> >> >> Vegetarians are responsible for a great deal of loss of wildlife
> >> >> >> habitat to the plow. They eat, wildlife starves.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As if you 'omnivores' don't eat vegetables and fruits, grains,
> >> >> > legumes, nuts and so on as well. Addressed in other posts.
> >> >>
> >> >> The 'ominvores' are not preaching from a holider-than-thou position
> >> >
> >> > That sure doesn't stop you from trying.
> >>
> >> You are the one wishing to foist your ideology and beliefs upon others.
> >
> >You are the ones forcing your ideology and beliefs upon others.
>
> Those who are against the seal hunt are very willing to force their
> deology and beliefs upon others.
> From a distance no less...

When you stop doing it, we'll stop exposing what you are up to.

'Taking Animals Seriously Mental Life and Moral Status
by David DeGrazia
<review>

Most people who approach Taking Animals Seriously will share an
unspoken presupposition. This is that animal activists take animals too
seriously. They lack a sense of proportion. It's not that gratuitous cruelty
to members of other species is morally defensible. Surely it isn't. If
pressed, then all but the amoral, sociopathic or philosophically bewitched
are likely to grant that wanton animal-abuse is best discouraged. Instead,
the pervasive assumption is simply that animal suffering doesn't really
matter much compared to the things that happen to human beings - to us.
They, after all, are only animals: objects rather than our fellow subjects.
Animal consciousness, insofar as it exists at all, is minimal and
uninteresting.

Contrast one's likely reaction on learning that the infant or toddler next
door is being abused. Let's suppose that the abuse is being inflicted for
fun or profit - or, more broadly, for purposes that can be described only
as frivolous. In such a case, then one's intuitions are equally clear. The
suffering of the victim has to be taken very seriously. One has a duty
actively to prevent it. The interests of the child take precedence over the
wishes of the abuser. In extreme cases, the adults involved in persistent
abuse may need to be legally restrained or even locked up. Indeed, it is
cases of failure on our part to take action to prevent it - or failure to take
action by the social services or child-protection agencies - that demand
justification. To treat the suffering caused by child-abuse lightly would be
to show a sense of disproportion when confronted with the nature of the
practices involved - and our capacity to do something about them.

Yet here lies the crux.

After Darwin, a huge and accumulating convergence of physiological,
behavioural, genetic and evolutionary evidence suggests - but cannot
prove - an appalling possibility. This is that hundreds of millions of
the non-human victims of our actions are functionally akin - intellectually,
emotionally and in their capacity to suffer - to very young humans. In the
light of what we're doing to our victims, the consequences of their also
being ethically akin to human babies or toddlers would be awful; in fact,
almost too ghastly to think about.

When we're confronted with such an emotive parallel, all sorts of
psychological denial and defence-mechanisms are likely to kick in.
Undoubtedly, too, animal-exploitation makes our lives so much more
convenient. Not surprisingly, in view of what we're doing to them,
there is a powerful incentive for us as humans to rationalise our actions.

Numerous pretexts and rationalisations aimed at legitimating animal
exploitation are certainly available; most of them seek to magnify the
gulf between "us" and "them". Intellectually, however, they prove on
examination to be surprisingly thin.
....
http://www.hedweb.com/animals/degrazia.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:8a2lv29pft3jnk04718dtdt16l3epevn7e@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:21:38 -0000, "pearl" <tea RemoveThis @signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> ><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:6lfhv2pvsr0uju3hrq0qucbpvvrpk5d8e9@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:54:14 -0000, "pearl" <tea RemoveThis @signguestbook.ie>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Yeah..right. What part of "'Most of the meat is wasted and left
> >> >on the ice." are you still having trouble with? If as a last resort
> >> >seal meat is required, I can't object, but that isn't the case here.
> >>
> >> THe meat isn't wasted, it feeds seagulls, other birds, and also the
> >> fish that the seals eat... Nothing in nature is wasted. It all gets
> >> recycled. You are so ego centric to think that it is just humans who
> >> can utilize dead seals?
> >
> >Something is Rotten in the Gulf of St. Lawrence:
> >Eco-logical reasons to abolish the Canadian harp seal hunt
> >http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/hypoxia.htm
> >http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/rottenhypocrisy.htm
> >
> >> >> Vegetarians are responsible for a great deal of loss of wildlife
> >> >> habitat to the plow. They eat, wildlife starves.
> >> >
> >> >As if you 'omnivores' don't eat vegetables and fruits, grains,
> >> >legumes, nuts and so on as well. Addressed in other posts.
> >>
> >> You had better believe I do. I also devote a significant protion of
> >> my farm land to wildlife habitat at my own personal expense. Land
> >> that I could be taking a profit from by renting it to a farmer rather
> >> than have it sit uncultivated as wildlife habitat. Are you willing to
> >> do the same?
> >
> >I am leaving that third of all land currently used for livestock as
> >wildlife habitat.
>
> And what land is that? And what wildlife does it support?

Land currently grazed, worldwide. Very little wildlife now.

Read http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter6.html .

> >Tragically others can't get over the meat habit.
>
> Leaving aside land for wildlife has nothing to do with whether or not
> one eats meat.

Of course it does.

> >> I eat grains, fruits, and vegetables, dairy products, and meat. Get
> >> over it....
> >
> >You need to get over it.
>
> I don't need to get over eating as much as I do need to cut down and
> move around more....
>
> >> I have set aside productive land for wildlife habitat.
> >>
> >> Over 60% of this land is managed for wildlife alone
> >> http://maps.google.com/?ie=utf8&z=16&ll=56.199781,-118.836644&spn=0.00...5,0.014
> >>
> >> In the summer there are several thousand waterfoul there, not to
> >> mention all of the other wildlife species that depend on water and
> >> quality habitat year round.
> >
> >You don't want to hear my opinion, but the image speaks for itself.
>
> What is your opinion?
> And what doe the image say, pray tell?
> One square is 160 acres more or less. The one with the lakes and
> sloughs on it has only 80 acres in hay production. the rest is
> reverting to shrubs and grassland. 38 acres is covered by water. Land
> that I used to farm. There is roughly 5 km of shorline in the spring
> when the waterfoul are nesting. Because it has had twelve years it has
> become pretty much sterile and needs a fire to rejuvinate the
> grassland species.
> The revenue from the 80 acres of hay goes to pay taxes and expenses in
> maintianing the habitat portion.

Reverting to shrubs and grassland? From what?

> >Do you shoot any of this wildlife?
>
> You had better believe it. The meat does not rot and every bit of it
> gets used in one way or another.

Thought so.

> BTW: Any vegetable crops grown here get eaten by the wildlife.
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:nc3lv2pk9u4lae3obesp82red2c7kfcc7m@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:20:00 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >"Chom Noamsky" <e.TakeThisOut@t.me> wrote in message news:pUWJh.83467$Du6.10748@edtnps82...
> >> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> news:et9bp8$84o$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >>
> >> > Find ways to do it that don't harm others.
> >>
> >> You should apply that to your own lifestyle first. Begin by turning off
> >> your PC which robs wildlife of its natural habitat. Do you believe wild
> >> animals have a right to a habitat?
> >
> >"The human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind
> >virtually every major category of environmental damage now
> >threatening the human future: deforestation, erosion, fresh water
> >scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss,
> >social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread
> >of disease." - World Watch
> >
> One could very easily say the same about the human desire

NEED.

> for
> vegetables and cereal crops. Not to mention the depletion of the
> water table in some areas from over utilization for irrigation.
> Not to mention the increasing salinity and reduced production of the
> soils resulting from irrigation.

No, one can't say the same about that.

From Technological Trajectories and the Human Environment.
1997. Pp. 56-73. Washington, DC: National Academy Press.
"How Much Land Can Ten Billion People Spare for Nature?"..

'By eating different species of crops and a more or less vegetarian
diet people can change the number that a plot can feed. And large
numbers of people do change their diets. The calories and protein
available from present cropland could provide a vegetarian diet to
ten billion people. A diet requiring food and feed totaling 6,000
calories daily for ten billion people, however, would overwhelm
the capability of present agriculture on present cropland. The
global totals of sun, CO2, fertilizer, and even water could produce
far more food than what ten billion people need.
...'
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4767&page=56
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:hg3lv219gjv8ab3u1hakfgaeov6oi03erf@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:23:01 -0000, "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> ><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:9lghv2dtq5g0nura5t5oneojikgeqjv8i2@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:17:30 -0000, "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >http://venus.nildram.co.uk/veganmc/polemics.htm
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> So what do those who hunt seals turn to for food
> >> >
> >> >In this "hunt" most of the meat is left on the ice.
> >>
> >> Where it is utilized by birds, and eventually fish.
> >> Remember seals eat fish. Sometimes the shoe is on the other foot...
> >
> >Read these pages:
> >
> >Something is Rotten in the Gulf of St. Lawrence:
> >Eco-logical reasons to abolish the Canadian harp seal hunt
> >http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/hypoxia.htm
> >http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/rottenhypocrisy.htm
>
>
> There is something rotten in the gulf of St Lawrence. It came out of
> the sewers and tailpipes of all of the factories and homes in the
> watershed that drained into the St. Lawrence drainage.
> Seals have very little to do with it other than they suffer the
> pollution.

False. Read those pages.

> >> >> and income when they
> >> >> can no longer hunt seals? And where are the rain forests on the
> >> >> coastlines where the seal hunters live? What are the alternative food
> >> >> sources. What are the alternative sources of income?
> >> >
> >> >Addressed elsewhere. Do these populations not eat fruits
> >> >and vegetables? Where are they getting such foods from?
> >>
> >> The areas where the seal hunt occurs do get fruit and vegetables.
> >> They hunt seals for the skins to they can afford to buy these
> >> expensive foreign foods..
> >
> >So you have food sources. Britain earns $82 million CAD
> >annually from seal watching trips. Much more than $16m.

No comment?

> >> >> What happens if the seal population goes unchecked?
> >> >
> >> >The ocean ecology begins to recover, if people let it be.
> >>
> >> Bullshit. A large seal population will hammer the heck out of what is
> >> left of the fisheries - fisheries that have been overfished by man.
> >>
> >> Dead seals on the ice eventuallly wind up feeding some of the fish.
> >
> >Not bullshit at all. Read the above links, and, again..
> >
> >"Those who support the theory that seals are destroying the
> >fish are only exposing their ignorance of ecological systems.
> >The reasoning that less seals will result in more fish or that more
> >seals will deplete existing fish populations is an unscientific
> >belief because it is a belief not backed by observation or data.
> >
> >Seals are essential element in maintaining a state of ecological
> >stability. The ocean is a complex, living environment that has
> >evolved since the beginning of the planet. In our present state
> >of evolution, the natural world we live in has found a key role
> >for marine mammals in marine habitats. The issue of harp seals
> >cannot be seperated from the issue of the long-term future
> >health of the oceans.
> >..
> >The life that thrives in the oceans has a critical influence on the
> >overall health of the ocean system. The great herds of seals
> >are a life force whose influence on the health of the ocean can
> >be recognized once the complexities of the food chain are
> >investigated and understood.
> >
> >When harp seals eat in herds, they return massive amounts of
> >nutrients in the form of fecal material, which feeds the plankton,
> >which feed the fish, which in turn feed the seals. The removal
> >of this nutrient base would be critical to the health of plankton
> >and fish populations.
> >
> >The migrating seal herds, and other marine mammals, move
> >nutrient wealth in a way no other force can: in giant north-
> >south loops and from great depths to the surface. By going
> >through regular periods of gorging and feasting, seals provide
> >large amounts of nutrients at key times of the year. The
> >combination of the seal supplied nutrients in the area where
> >the Labrador Current meets the Gulf Stream of Mexico is
> >responsible for the great fish grounds of the Grand Banks.
> >Reference to the logs of captain Jacques Cartier, Samuel de
> >Champlain, and John Cabot illustrate that at the time of the
> >greatest number of seals prior to European exploitation, the
> >fish were so abundant that Cabot described the Grand Banks
> >as "so swarming with fish that they could be taken but in
> >baskets let down with a stone."
> >
> >Plankton, the smallest animals in the ocean, require organic
> >matter and sunlight to grow. Once the sun reaches a high
> >enough point in the sky in the northern lattitudes so that
> >sufficient sunlight is available to the plankton, the seals arrive
> >and begin to eat and defacate, releasing the needed supply
> >of nutrients. Plankton cannot eat fish, but they can consume
> >fecal material as it is broken down into nutrients. The plankton
> >then provides for krill and up the food chain through the fish
> >and back to the seal.
> >
> >An analogy that helps to understand the role of the seal
> >herds in the ocean is that of trees in a forest. A healthy forest
> >can be viewed as being dependent on a healthy soil. The soil
> >is made up of minerals that come from rock, and organic
> >material from trees. Without the rocks or the trees there
> >would be soil and no forest. The impact of clear-cuts is well
> >known. Once the trees are taken away, a desert is left behind.
> >In a similiar manner, taking seals out of the ocean environment
> >takes away an important source of organic material to the
> >plankton, and thus leaves a relatively sterile environment
> >behind.
> >..
> >http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/ecosystem.html

No comment?
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:qj3lv2tgfp2n70a847guc3349oars2tsc8@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:23:01 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The areas where the seal hunt occurs do get fruit and vegetables.
> >> They hunt seals for the skins to they can afford to buy these
> >> expensive foreign foods..
> >
> >So you have food sources.
>
> So where are these food sources? What do they cost?
> What about transportation to get the food there?

You tell us.

> > Britain earns $82 million CAD
> >annually from seal watching trips. Much more than $16m.
>
> Please name the companies that doe the seal watching eco tours in
> Great Britian. Post some links to their internet sites. Some reading
> htis might like to go....

Look here:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=seal+watching+uk&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:uv3lv21bjkoivr758vl48kcp6ok3lkpqis@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:28:42 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >"Chom Noamsky" <e.TakeThisOut@t.me> wrote in message news:XxYJh.114958$cE3.88143@edtnps89...
> >> > "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> > news:et6d75$1ij$16@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >> > 'Anthropocentrism
> >> > By Penelope Smith
> >>
> >> <snip biased ara opinion>
> >
> >That's your biased, anti AR opinion.
> >
> >> Let me ask you one simple question (how you answer will expose your entire
> >> philosophy as a fraud):
> >>
> >> Which is more worthy of rights, a seal or a fish?
> >
> >Both, equally. And humans? If any other species caused
> >the damage that we do, they'd be exterminated as vermin.
>
> Can't argue with that one.
> Deforestation to grow crops for vegetarians to eat is one of the worst
> offences....

Evidence?
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:t24lv2htq37vv7ojf28d0a19kq10dj3pu1@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:28:17 -0000, "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >> >False. Already addressed.
> >>
> >> How is it false. Agriculture destroys and changes the structure of
> >> wildlife habitat. That is a fact.
> >
> >A tenth of all land is arable land (present cropland). A third of
> >that ten percent is used to cultivate feed crops. Up to 50% of
> >all land is grazed by domestic livestock. But present cropland
> >could feed ten billion people, allowing the land grazed to revert
> >to natural habitat, as it was before it was grazed by livestock.
>
> Livestock graze on land that won't produce crops.

So? It *was* "producing" entire ecosystems.

> Goats are a case in
> point. Man grows crops where the soil allows it, and raises
> livestock on the land that won't grow a crop.

Unnecessarily.

> Agriculture kills wildlife habitat, even for vegetarians - get over
> it.

See above.
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:574lv2ta2m7pp16i1b8vn1gbk8qs97qtub@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:29:57 -0000, "pearl" <tea RemoveThis @signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >> Tell me how is taking one deer of a thousand, or one seal out of a
> >> thosand, using the skin, and eating the seal damaging the environment?
> >
> >Humans number over 6 billion. How many deer and seals?
>
>
> I would strongly suggest you visit mainland china. There are a billion
> people there. Every square inch of arable land is utilized. Every
> thing that is wild is a source of sustenance. That is what
> agriculture for 4000 years does to the environment.
> Grazing keeps part of the land close to natural.

Meat consumption in China was traditionally very low.
Now they are buying soya from deforested Amazon.

> As for how many deer and seals, not enough to feed 6 billion people.
> but enough to feed the local folk so they don't starve.

Make up your mind.
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<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:qb4lv29t5ufurgc4hhpo0rssr015234iin@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:29:57 -0000, "pearl" <tea RemoveThis @signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> >Go vegetarian, and we would require less cropland than is
> >currently used for food and feed, without the need to hunt.
>
> This is the "a family can exist on five acres of vegetables theory"?
> There are 6 billion people in the world. Are there 6 billion acres of
> arable land?
> And what do they do when the uncontroled, overpopulated, starving
> wildlife eats the vegetables on their acre of land?

You're just another wilfully ignorant troll, aren't you.
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<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:og4lv25iljapu98jfguj1brcoi4rutiai3@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:35:11 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> ><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:7bhhv2hk37ir577ah071vvueqsbveff2bc@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:58:17 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
> >> wrote:
> >..
> >> >Clue: Humans number over six billion these days. Where
> >> >is all this wildlife you seem so keen on "harvesting", hmm?
> >> >
> >> >Provide evidence to support your claims...
> >>
> >> If you go out in the woods today, you're in for a big surprize. There
> >> is wildlife there, some places the highest populations of wildlife
> >> since before the fur trade. Wildlife numbers so high that the habitat
> >> can no longer provide enough food to support the populations.
> >> ANd you want to see these beautiful (tasty) animals starve and get
> >> eaten by wolves and coyotes while they are too week to flee?
> >
> >Show us some examples of what you claim.
>
> Here is a photo of two predators fighting over a carcass
>
> http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?pic_id=komi1142612071&lang=eng

Proving what, exactly?
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On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:25:30 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:og4lv25iljapu98jfguj1brcoi4rutiai3@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:35:11 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:7bhhv2hk37ir577ah071vvueqsbveff2bc@4ax.com...
>> >> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:58:17 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
>> >> wrote:
>> >..
>> >> >Clue: Humans number over six billion these days. Where
>> >> >is all this wildlife you seem so keen on "harvesting", hmm?
>> >> >
>> >> >Provide evidence to support your claims...
>> >>
>> >> If you go out in the woods today, you're in for a big surprize. There
>> >> is wildlife there, some places the highest populations of wildlife
>> >> since before the fur trade. Wildlife numbers so high that the habitat
>> >> can no longer provide enough food to support the populations.
>> >> ANd you want to see these beautiful (tasty) animals starve and get
>> >> eaten by wolves and coyotes while they are too week to flee?
>> >
>> >Show us some examples of what you claim.
>>
>> Here is a photo of two predators fighting over a carcass
>>
>> http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?pic_id=komi1142612071&lang=eng
>
>Proving what, exactly?


About as much as you have proven...


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
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