Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt

"Chom Noamsky" <e.TakeThisOut@t.me> wrote in message news:4sXJh.83478$Du6.8966@edtnps82...
> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> news:et9964$6ua$16@reader01.news.esat.net...
> > "Chom Noamsky" <e.TakeThisOut@t.me> wrote in message
> > news:P_NJh.82793$Du6.20953@edtnps82...
> >> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> news:et6d77$1ij$17@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >> > "Chom Noamsky" <e.TakeThisOut@t.me> wrote in message
> >> > news:BeiJh.38699$lY6.2489@edtnps90...
> >> >> > "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:et3o5j$ui6$2@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > They belong to no one. You cannot truthfully own other beings.
> >> >>
> >> >> The world doesn't run on the theoretical ethics of misguided animal
> >> >> rights
> >> >> activists. All major religions support a human-centric view of the
> >> >> world,
> >> >> that we are superior beings and hold dominion over the natural world.
> >> >> To
> >> >> claim that one "cannot truthfully own other beings" is moot and
> >> >> irrelevant.
> >> >
> >> > 'Benedict XVI Continues Tradition of Papal Concern for Animals
> >>
> >> Still no opinion of your own?
> >
> > Still no valid argument?
>
> Polly wanna cracker?

'The fallacious arguments in this section change the subject
of discussion by describing the person presenting the
argument rather than the reasons for believing/disbelieving
his/her conclusion.
...
ad hominem abusive: instead of attacking an assertion,
attacking the person who made the assertion.
....
http://www.mdpme.com/FALLACY5.HTM
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:g6hhv2th3a5sudue9p3q0ue99qjvskaosd@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:52:43 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
>
> ><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:khgdv2pij3vrl5694eam6470n195s6cqqb@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:17:14 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Nobody" <not DeleteThis @home.anymore> wrote in message news:Xns98F1C1FEBA9331v2rt@204.153.245.131...
> >> >> pearl wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > 'Most of the meat is wasted and left on the ice. Some if it is
> >> >> > sold to fur farms and some is ground up into animal feed. A
> >> >> > few thousand seal flippers are sold for human consumption in
> >> >> > Newfoundland. There is also a growing black market demand
> >> >> > for the seal penis bone in the Far East as some sort of voodoo
> >> >> > quack remedy for impotence.
> >> >>
> >> >> You STILL haven't come up with any valid source for that.
> >> >
> >> >You STILL haven't refuted it.
> >> >
> >> >> > http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/faqs.html
> >> >>
> >> >> You post information fron an activist site that supports YOUR view.
> >> >> Not too clever are you? I gave you a site to check but you seem either
> >> >> too scared or too lazy to check it out.
> >> >
> >> >'ad hominem abusive: instead of attacking an assertion, attacking
> >> >the person who made the assertion.
> >> >..'
> >> >http://www.mdpme.com/FALLACY5.HTM
> >> >
> >> >Support your claim, if you're gonna, if you can. You can't.
> >> >
> >> >> >> Harvesting wildlife is the least environmentally damaging way to
> >> >> >> get food.
> >> >>
> >> >> Enough said.
> >> >
> >> >It's BS.
> >>
> >> Prove that it is BS!
> >
> >Done.
> >
>
> When and how?

In this thread. Go back and read what you have snipped?

> Tell me how is taking one deer of a thousand, or one seal out of a
> thosand, using the skin, and eating the seal damaging the environment?

Humans number over 6 billion. How many deer and seals?

> Compare that to farming where the whole fauna is eradicated and
> changed to an unatural monoculture, soils deteriorate, and the
> cropland is essentually sterile except for the target species being
> grown? Hunting does not damage the habitat - vegetable farming does.

Go vegetarian, and we would require less cropland than is
currently used for food and feed, without the need to hunt.
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

<10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:7bhhv2hk37ir577ah071vvueqsbveff2bc@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:58:17 -0000, "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie>
> wrote:
...
> >Clue: Humans number over six billion these days. Where
> >is all this wildlife you seem so keen on "harvesting", hmm?
> >
> >Provide evidence to support your claims...
>
> If you go out in the woods today, you're in for a big surprize. There
> is wildlife there, some places the highest populations of wildlife
> since before the fur trade. Wildlife numbers so high that the habitat
> can no longer provide enough food to support the populations.
> ANd you want to see these beautiful (tasty) animals starve and get
> eaten by wolves and coyotes while they are too week to flee?

Show us some examples of what you claim.
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:18:15 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

>"Chom Noamsky" <e DeleteThis @t.me> wrote in message news:0xXJh.83479$Du6.1257@edtnps82...
>> "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>> news:et9bt1$852$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
>> > "Chom Noamsky" <e DeleteThis @t.me> wrote in message
>> > news:q1WJh.83409$Du6.64406@edtnps82...
>> >> > "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>> >> > news:et995j$6ua$2@reader01.news.esat.net...
>> >> >> So you would take away a traditional lifestyle and income away from
>> >> >> folks who have lived of the fare of the ocean for at least tens of
>> >> >> centuries? What would they turn to for food and income if this is
>> >> >> denyied them?
>> >> >> So what if these folks speak French. It is their lifestyle and lively
>> >> >> hood you attack. They don't attack you for being vegetarian.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yeah..right. What part of "'Most of the meat is wasted and left
>> >> > on the ice." are you still having trouble with? If as a last resort
>> >> > seal meat is required, I can't object, but that isn't the case here.
>> >>
>> >> Wasted because of international ARA campaigns.
>> >
>> > That's a new one. Do explain.
>>
>> I'm sure you can figure than one out for yourself... or maybe not... you
>> seem to be heavily reliant on "answers.com"
>
>And yet more evasion.
>
>> >> >> Vegetarians are responsible for a great deal of loss of wildlife
>> >> >> habitat to the plow. They eat, wildlife starves.
>> >> >
>> >> > As if you 'omnivores' don't eat vegetables and fruits, grains,
>> >> > legumes, nuts and so on as well. Addressed in other posts.
>> >>
>> >> The 'ominvores' are not preaching from a holider-than-thou position
>> >
>> > That sure doesn't stop you from trying.
>>
>> You are the one wishing to foist your ideology and beliefs upon others.
>
>You are the ones forcing your ideology and beliefs upon others.

Those who are against the seal hunt are very willing to force their
deology and beliefs upon others.
From a distance no less...


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:21:38 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:6lfhv2pvsr0uju3hrq0qucbpvvrpk5d8e9@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:54:14 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Yeah..right. What part of "'Most of the meat is wasted and left
>> >on the ice." are you still having trouble with? If as a last resort
>> >seal meat is required, I can't object, but that isn't the case here.
>>
>> THe meat isn't wasted, it feeds seagulls, other birds, and also the
>> fish that the seals eat... Nothing in nature is wasted. It all gets
>> recycled. You are so ego centric to think that it is just humans who
>> can utilize dead seals?
>
>Something is Rotten in the Gulf of St. Lawrence:
>Eco-logical reasons to abolish the Canadian harp seal hunt
>http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/hypoxia.htm
>http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/rottenhypocrisy.htm
>
>> >> Vegetarians are responsible for a great deal of loss of wildlife
>> >> habitat to the plow. They eat, wildlife starves.
>> >
>> >As if you 'omnivores' don't eat vegetables and fruits, grains,
>> >legumes, nuts and so on as well. Addressed in other posts.
>>
>> You had better believe I do. I also devote a significant protion of
>> my farm land to wildlife habitat at my own personal expense. Land
>> that I could be taking a profit from by renting it to a farmer rather
>> than have it sit uncultivated as wildlife habitat. Are you willing to
>> do the same?
>
>I am leaving that third of all land currently used for livestock as
>wildlife habitat.

And what land is that? And what wildlife does it support?


>Tragically others can't get over the meat habit.

Leaving aside land for wildlife has nothing to do with whether or not
one eats meat.

>> I eat grains, fruits, and vegetables, dairy products, and meat. Get
>> over it....
>
>You need to get over it.

I don't need to get over eating as much as I do need to cut down and
move around more....

>> I have set aside productive land for wildlife habitat.
>>
>> Over 60% of this land is managed for wildlife alone
>> http://maps.google.com/?ie=utf8&z=16&ll=56.199781,-118.836644&spn=0.00...5,0.014
>>
>> In the summer there are several thousand waterfoul there, not to
>> mention all of the other wildlife species that depend on water and
>> quality habitat year round.
>
>You don't want to hear my opinion, but the image speaks for itself.

What is your opinion?
And what doe the image say, pray tell?
One square is 160 acres more or less. The one with the lakes and
sloughs on it has only 80 acres in hay production. the rest is
reverting to shrubs and grassland. 38 acres is covered by water. Land
that I used to farm. There is roughly 5 km of shorline in the spring
when the waterfoul are nesting. Because it has had twelve years it has
become pretty much sterile and needs a fire to rejuvinate the
grassland species.
The revenue from the 80 acres of hay goes to pay taxes and expenses in
maintianing the habitat portion.


>Do you shoot any of this wildlife?

You had better believe it. The meat does not rot and every bit of it
gets used in one way or another.
BTW: Any vegetable crops grown here get eaten by the wildlife.


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:20:00 -0000, "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

>"Chom Noamsky" <e.TakeThisOut@t.me> wrote in message news:pUWJh.83467$Du6.10748@edtnps82...
>> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>> news:et9bp8$84o$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
>>
>> > Find ways to do it that don't harm others.
>>
>> You should apply that to your own lifestyle first. Begin by turning off
>> your PC which robs wildlife of its natural habitat. Do you believe wild
>> animals have a right to a habitat?
>
>"The human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind
>virtually every major category of environmental damage now
>threatening the human future: deforestation, erosion, fresh water
>scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss,
>social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread
>of disease." - World Watch
>
One could very easily say the same about the human desire for
vegetables and cereal crops. Not to mention the depletion of the
water table in some areas from over utilization for irrigation.
Not to mention the increasing salinity and reduced production of the
soils resulting from irrigation.


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:23:01 -0000, "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

><10x@teluös.net> wrote in message news:9lghv2dtq5g0nura5t5oneojikgeqjv8i2@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:17:30 -0000, "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> >http://venus.nildram.co.uk/veganmc/polemics.htm
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> So what do those who hunt seals turn to for food
>> >
>> >In this "hunt" most of the meat is left on the ice.
>>
>> Where it is utilized by birds, and eventually fish.
>> Remember seals eat fish. Sometimes the shoe is on the other foot...
>
>Read these pages:
>
>Something is Rotten in the Gulf of St. Lawrence:
>Eco-logical reasons to abolish the Canadian harp seal hunt
>http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/hypoxia.htm
>http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/rottenhypocrisy.htm


There is something rotten in the gulf of St Lawrence. It came out of
the sewers and tailpipes of all of the factories and homes in the
watershed that drained into the St. Lawrence drainage.
Seals have very little to do with it other than they suffer the
pollution.
>> >> and income when they
>> >> can no longer hunt seals? And where are the rain forests on the
>> >> coastlines where the seal hunters live? What are the alternative food
>> >> sources. What are the alternative sources of income?
>> >
>> >Addressed elsewhere. Do these populations not eat fruits
>> >and vegetables? Where are they getting such foods from?
>>
>> The areas where the seal hunt occurs do get fruit and vegetables.
>> They hunt seals for the skins to they can afford to buy these
>> expensive foreign foods..
>
>So you have food sources. Britain earns $82 million CAD
>annually from seal watching trips. Much more than $16m.
>
>> >> What happens if the seal population goes unchecked?
>> >
>> >The ocean ecology begins to recover, if people let it be.
>>
>> Bullshit. A large seal population will hammer the heck out of what is
>> left of the fisheries - fisheries that have been overfished by man.
>>
>> Dead seals on the ice eventuallly wind up feeding some of the fish.
>
>Not bullshit at all. Read the above links, and, again..
>
>"Those who support the theory that seals are destroying the
>fish are only exposing their ignorance of ecological systems.
>The reasoning that less seals will result in more fish or that more
>seals will deplete existing fish populations is an unscientific
>belief because it is a belief not backed by observation or data.
>
>Seals are essential element in maintaining a state of ecological
>stability. The ocean is a complex, living environment that has
>evolved since the beginning of the planet. In our present state
>of evolution, the natural world we live in has found a key role
>for marine mammals in marine habitats. The issue of harp seals
>cannot be seperated from the issue of the long-term future
>health of the oceans.
>..
>The life that thrives in the oceans has a critical influence on the
>overall health of the ocean system. The great herds of seals
>are a life force whose influence on the health of the ocean can
>be recognized once the complexities of the food chain are
>investigated and understood.
>
>When harp seals eat in herds, they return massive amounts of
>nutrients in the form of fecal material, which feeds the plankton,
>which feed the fish, which in turn feed the seals. The removal
>of this nutrient base would be critical to the health of plankton
>and fish populations.
>
>The migrating seal herds, and other marine mammals, move
>nutrient wealth in a way no other force can: in giant north-
>south loops and from great depths to the surface. By going
>through regular periods of gorging and feasting, seals provide
>large amounts of nutrients at key times of the year. The
>combination of the seal supplied nutrients in the area where
>the Labrador Current meets the Gulf Stream of Mexico is
>responsible for the great fish grounds of the Grand Banks.
>Reference to the logs of captain Jacques Cartier, Samuel de
>Champlain, and John Cabot illustrate that at the time of the
>greatest number of seals prior to European exploitation, the
>fish were so abundant that Cabot described the Grand Banks
>as "so swarming with fish that they could be taken but in
>baskets let down with a stone."
>
>Plankton, the smallest animals in the ocean, require organic
>matter and sunlight to grow. Once the sun reaches a high
>enough point in the sky in the northern lattitudes so that
>sufficient sunlight is available to the plankton, the seals arrive
>and begin to eat and defacate, releasing the needed supply
>of nutrients. Plankton cannot eat fish, but they can consume
>fecal material as it is broken down into nutrients. The plankton
>then provides for krill and up the food chain through the fish
>and back to the seal.
>
>An analogy that helps to understand the role of the seal
>herds in the ocean is that of trees in a forest. A healthy forest
>can be viewed as being dependent on a healthy soil. The soil
>is made up of minerals that come from rock, and organic
>material from trees. Without the rocks or the trees there
>would be soil and no forest. The impact of clear-cuts is well
>known. Once the trees are taken away, a desert is left behind.
>In a similiar manner, taking seals out of the ocean environment
>takes away an important source of organic material to the
>plankton, and thus leaves a relatively sterile environment
>behind.
>..
>http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/ecosystem.html
>
>
>
>



take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:12vl4ie6jc0oc0c@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "pearl" <tea.TakeThisOut@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
> news:ete1t1$5a5$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> > "Arved Sandstrom" <asandstrom.TakeThisOut@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
> > news:320Kh.115098$cE3.90778@edtnps89...
> >> "
> >> Why? Unless you're a vegetarian, tell me why seals are not meant to be
> >> eaten, but poultry, cattle and fish are.
> >
> > "[Animals] were not made for humans any more than black
> > people were made for whites or women for men." - Alice Walker
> >
>
>
> And who is Alice Walker that we should take her seriously ?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22alice+walker%22&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:23:01 -0000, "pearl" <tea.RemoveThis@signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

>>
>> The areas where the seal hunt occurs do get fruit and vegetables.
>> They hunt seals for the skins to they can afford to buy these
>> expensive foreign foods..
>
>So you have food sources.

So where are these food sources? What do they cost?
What about transportation to get the food there?

> Britain earns $82 million CAD
>annually from seal watching trips. Much more than $16m.

Please name the companies that doe the seal watching eco tours in
Great Britian. Post some links to their internet sites. Some reading
htis might like to go....


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:45:55 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>news:ete1t1$5a5$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
>> "Arved Sandstrom" <asandstrom DeleteThis @accesswave.ca> wrote in message
>> news:320Kh.115098$cE3.90778@edtnps89...
>>> "
>>> Why? Unless you're a vegetarian, tell me why seals are not meant to be
>>> eaten, but poultry, cattle and fish are.
>>
>> "[Animals] were not made for humans any more than black
>> people were made for whites or women for men." - Alice Walker
>>
>
>
>And who is Alice Walker that we should take her seriously ?

Not someone you would find on a seal hunt, or growing her own
vegetables for that matter.


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:03:03 GMT, "Chom Noamsky" <e.DeleteThis@t.me> wrote:

>> "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>> news:et6d75$1ij$16@reader01.news.esat.net...
>> 'Anthropocentrism
>> By Penelope Smith
>
><snip biased ara opinion>
>
>Let me ask you one simple question (how you answer will expose your entire
>philosophy as a fraud):
>
> Which is more worthy of rights, a seal or a fish?

Seals and fish share the right to be eaten by other larger, faster,
and smarter animals.



take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:28:42 -0000, "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

>"Chom Noamsky" <e DeleteThis @t.me> wrote in message news:XxYJh.114958$cE3.88143@edtnps89...
>> > "pearl" <tea DeleteThis @signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
>> > news:et6d75$1ij$16@reader01.news.esat.net...
>> > 'Anthropocentrism
>> > By Penelope Smith
>>
>> <snip biased ara opinion>
>
>That's your biased, anti AR opinion.
>
>> Let me ask you one simple question (how you answer will expose your entire
>> philosophy as a fraud):
>>
>> Which is more worthy of rights, a seal or a fish?
>
>Both, equally. And humans? If any other species caused
>the damage that we do, they'd be exterminated as vermin.

Can't argue with that one.
Deforestation to grow crops for vegetarians to eat is one of the worst
offences....


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
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On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:28:17 -0000, "pearl" <tea.DeleteThis@signguestbook.ie>
wrote:

>> >False. Already addressed.
>>
>> How is it false. Agriculture destroys and changes the structure of
>> wildlife habitat. That is a fact.
>
>A tenth of all land is arable land (present cropland). A third of
>that ten percent is used to cultivate feed crops. Up to 50% of
>all land is grazed by domestic livestock. But present cropland
>could feed ten billion people, allowing the land grazed to revert
>to natural habitat, as it was before it was grazed by livestock.

Livestock graze on land that won't produce crops. Goats are a case in
point. Man grows crops where the soil allows it, and raises
livestock on the land that won't grow a crop.
Agriculture kills wildlife habitat, even for vegetarians - get over
it.


take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
 >> Stay informed about: Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt