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External
Since: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:14 am
Post subject: Fish Flicking
Archived from groups: rec>aquaria>freshwater>goldfish (more info?)
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Hi all,
I have a 21 (uk) gallon / 95 litre tank with 2 small comet goldfish, 2
small red capped orandas and a coldwater plec (chinese hillstream
loach).
For several weeks now I have noticed the fish flicking against
ornaments and the gravel. It seems to occur a couple of times a day
and all but the hillstream loach show signs of flicking. I have
checked each fish closely to try to spot any parasites, but nothing!
The fish act fine most of the time, only occassionally do I spot one
of the goldfish with his fins down. All have a good appetite and seem
active enough.
I have checked the water quality:
Ammonnia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 60
KH 3-4
GH 6-7
PH 7.2
The KH was lower than this originally, but I have put bits of corel in
the filter and the KH + GH is slowly rising.
I have had several fish die over the last few weeks and I'm ripping my
hair out trying to figure out what it could be due to. Each fish that
has died hasn't shown any obvious signs of illness (apart from the
flicking). In fact the last fish looked perfectly healthy until I
realised he wasn't breathing and had got stuck to the filter. In
desperation I have removed everything from the tank (gravel,
ornaments, plants) so now there is just the filter, fish and water. I
have even made sure that there are no air fresheners or plants near
the tank just incase they could be the cause!
In the past I have tried a does of eSHa Exit and eSHa 2000 over 3 days
which I believe is supposed to be very good at curing most diseases,
but I do not like to use loads of treatments because I know this can
stress the fish even more.
I would be greatful if anyone has any ideas or suggestions to what
could be causing the problem??
Many thanks,
Paul |
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External
Since: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Fish Flicking [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a 21 (uk) gallon / 95 litre tank with 2 small comet goldfish, 2
> small red capped orandas and a coldwater plec (chinese hillstream
> loach).
>
> For several weeks now I have noticed the fish flicking against
> ornaments and the gravel. It seems to occur a couple of times a day
> and all but the hillstream loach show signs of flicking. I have
> checked each fish closely to try to spot any parasites, but nothing!
> The fish act fine most of the time, only occassionally do I spot one
> of the goldfish with his fins down. All have a good appetite and seem
> active enough.
>
> I have checked the water quality:
>
> Ammonnia 0
> Nitrites 0
> Nitrates 60
> KH 3-4
> GH 6-7
> PH 7.2
Your nitrates are far to high, how often do you do water changes and how often?
You do realise that you should have about a 70gallon tank for these fish? You
are
overstocked. |
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External
Since: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: Fish Flicking [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Geezer From The Freezer <Geezer.RemoveThis@Freezer.com> wrote in message news:<419B4FB2.30D1762A.RemoveThis@Freezer.com>...
> Your nitrates are far to high, how often do you do water changes and how often?
> You do realise that you should have about a 70gallon tank for these fish? You
> are
> overstocked.
I really appreciate your reply. I know that goldfish require a LOT of
space but by my calculations, a 70 gallon tank for 5 small fish
(average 1 inch each) would be about 6' - 7' long?
I have always been a bit unsure about what the nitrate should be.
According to my eSHa test kit, it recommends a range between 25 and
100, although a value of 30 and above can cause problem with algae
growth. What do you recommend nitrates should be and is simply
replacing the water the best way of reducing it?
I change the water every 2-3 weeks. My only concern is that where I
live (Birmingham, England), the water is very very soft. In fact the
test results showed a KH and GH of 0 hence why I have been using corel
to increase the hardness.
Paul >> Stay informed about: Fish Flicking |
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External
Since: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 605
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:02 am
Post subject: Re: Fish Flicking [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul wrote:
>
> Geezer From The Freezer <Geezer.DeleteThis@Freezer.com> wrote in message news:<419B4FB2.30D1762A.DeleteThis@Freezer.com>...
>
> > Your nitrates are far to high, how often do you do water changes and how often?
> > You do realise that you should have about a 70gallon tank for these fish? You
> > are
> > overstocked.
>
> I really appreciate your reply. I know that goldfish require a LOT of
> space but by my calculations, a 70 gallon tank for 5 small fish
> (average 1 inch each) would be about 6' - 7' long?
>
> I have always been a bit unsure about what the nitrate should be.
> According to my eSHa test kit, it recommends a range between 25 and
> 100, although a value of 30 and above can cause problem with algae
> growth. What do you recommend nitrates should be and is simply
> replacing the water the best way of reducing it?
>
> I change the water every 2-3 weeks. My only concern is that where I
> live (Birmingham, England), the water is very very soft. In fact the
> test results showed a KH and GH of 0 hence why I have been using corel
> to increase the hardness.
>
> Paul
Paul,
I have a 63 gallon tank that is about 4 feet long - its reasonably tall....
Remember your fish are small now, but your commons will likely grow to 10" or
even more....
I'd suggest keeping nitrates lower than 40ppm, 20ppm if possible. Replacing
the water is the best method - I typically do 25-40% changes on my 63 once
a week. Goldfish are dirty so nitrates will elevate. If you get a bigger tank
you will be able to control the nitrate build easier. Coral is a good idea
to up your hardness. Some people use dolomitic limestone and others have
used baking soda too. >> Stay informed about: Fish Flicking |
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External
Since: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 200
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Fish Flicking [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>I change the water every 2-3 weeks. My only concern is that where I
>live (Birmingham, England), the water is very very soft. In fact the
>test results showed a KH and GH of 0 hence why I have been using corel
>to increase the hardness.
ok, I'm in Birmingham too and our water is WEIRD. I had a discussion
about it in re.aquaria.freshwater.misc with NetMax a few weeks ago, in
fact.
The water here is soft and alkaline, which is a very strange and very
unstable combination. At the moment Severn Trent is adding a temp.
buffer to it, but once out of the tap the pH drops rapidly. You're doing
the right thing by buffering, but even with buffer you are not going to
hold the initial pH for long. (I was talking to the man in the aquatics
shop about this a couple of days ago). So the trick with water changes
is little and often, especially in a small tank. A big water change is
going to result in your pH bouncing initially up and then straight back
down, which the fish will hate. Leaving the water to age overnight will
help, too.
I have had real problem keepiomng pH stable in my small tank, even with
huge quantities of coral gravel, and this is my best solution - little
and often with the water...
--
sophie >> Stay informed about: Fish Flicking |
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External
Since: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:30 am
Post subject: Re: Fish Flicking [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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sophie <sophie-usenetNOSPAMTHANKYOU.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<e7evZEDGMNnBFwWp.TakeThisOut@193.38.113.3>...
> ok, I'm in Birmingham too and our water is WEIRD. I had a discussion
> about it in re.aquaria.freshwater.misc with NetMax a few weeks ago, in
> fact.
>
> The water here is soft and alkaline, which is a very strange and very
> unstable combination. At the moment Severn Trent is adding a temp.
> buffer to it, but once out of the tap the pH drops rapidly. You're doing
> the right thing by buffering, but even with buffer you are not going to
> hold the initial pH for long. (I was talking to the man in the aquatics
> shop about this a couple of days ago). So the trick with water changes
> is little and often, especially in a small tank. A big water change is
> going to result in your pH bouncing initially up and then straight back
> down, which the fish will hate. Leaving the water to age overnight will
> help, too.
>
> I have had real problem keepiomng pH stable in my small tank, even with
> huge quantities of coral gravel, and this is my best solution - little
> and often with the water...
I'm really keen to get my nitrate levels down to 20ppm. As a
compromise between Ingrids 50% daily water changes and your 'little
and often' solution should I go for 25% daily water changes for 2
weeks or even 12.5% daily water changes for 4 weeks?
Paul >> Stay informed about: Fish Flicking |
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